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Topic: The Orz, the Arilou and perhaps a New Idea. (Read 18229 times)
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Shiver
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NECRO-99 wrote:
I think we need to make a kiddie table like the SC Forum has, and Terminator and Orz Brain need to go sit at it. At least get your arguments into such a position that they do not contradict themselves or seem generally stupid. Until this time, remain at the kiddie table. Thank you.
I don't really care for Terminator's posts either, but Orz Brain was merely speculating. What are you getting all hostile for? If it's that time of month for you, don't take it out on random people over the internet.
You keep 'em comin', I'll keep on gunnin'.
How about instead of acting like an asshat, you state your own ideas about the subject?
FalconMWC wrote:
Are you saying that the Orrz just released the marines in space and let them take over the cities by ground? Well, I really don't think that the marines suits can stadn rentry. I mean, the US lost a shuttle during rentry. So it is farfetched to say that the Orz marines suits could take WHILE being shot at. And besides, some of the androsyn could have hid and escaped and later died. The lander crew would have found their bodies.
Anyhow I just see holes in that theory.
Not so. The Orz can sense exactly where every Androsynth is by *smell*. It would be impossible for Androsynth to hide from that. Marines could've been launched from within the atmosphere or (D999's idea) the planet is where they first appeared. I tend to lean more towards this as opposed to the "IDF beings ate everything" theory because of the following passages:
...NO SIGNS OF ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT OR INVASION FROM SPACE... JUST A WHOLE MESS OF BUILDINGS SHOT TO PIECES.
...IT'S AS THOUGH SOMETHING APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE, BLASTED EVERYTHING WITH NUCLEAR BAZOOKAS...
These imply that conventional weapons were used to cause havok. Very un-ghostly. A marine invasion seems most likely to me. Another possibility is that the Androsynth collectively went insane and went around killing each other until reality broke down and swept them all away.
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Picowoof
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As many appear to here, I have my own ideas which are like and not unlike the others but draw on my own personal perception wall to fill in the blanks in the storyline which only the authors truly can but... it's fun to guess anyway! So I shall theorize and I shall also attempt to summarize and not be too much of a windbag, though I believe at the latter I shall fail horribly, miserably and bore everyone to tears. And on that note, here we go!
What if the Orz never were the Orz until they were the Androsynth, then after they were the Androsynth which are no more, there are no Androsynth -- there are only Orz. What I find fascinating is the almost existentialist void-space that exists concurrant to a theorem that only I seem to have. The theory would follow as thus: The Orz are an abandoned extradimensional technology that was left without all its parts, it exists on a set program it barely managed to scrape together itself, to find the missing pieces.
Upon opening the dimensional doorway, the 'pieces' sniffed out sentience, that which it needed to simply BE (after all, the Orz are suits, suits... I believe the Captain said something to this effect, like Combat-Vac suits). Yet it couldn't see the sentience without the sentience first seeing it. The scans penetrate the interdimensional barrier. 'We know this pattern.' think the pieces, in their own basic way. This is a sign of sentience, we see this sign of sentience. We understand this particular pattern. We are drawn!
The Orz are born from the bonding. The reason everyone went nuts is because the pieces are picotech swarms, designed to take their sentience and then build atop it. When the Science officer on the surface utilized the computer, he unwittingly activated one of the last remaining IDF holepunchers. In seeped the swarm, not enough for a conversion but yet enough at the same time to cause him harm, harm which continued because these pieces had neither enough to fix the original form, nor to form that which they so desired.
Therein, the Orz were born from the Androsynth. And they felt really, REALLY bad about it because they could now feel guilt. "What have we done?!" And they knew that they had sacrificed a race for their needs. The humans they 'allowed' to the surface, they did so because they were incompatible. They were forced into being incompatible by the Arilouloopylay (yes, I'm aware). So they had no 'smell', they had no detectable compatability. But to the Orz, this meant that they had no sentience. They had no 'soul'. So they felt sad for them.
At the same time however the Orz were relieved because they knew these 'campers' were safe, they lacked the 'base sentience components' required by the pieces, so they'd probably be left alone. After all, if the Orz which were once pieces before they were Androsynth which now aren't, which are now only Orz... uh, if they couldn't SMELL them, then they'd be okay. So that's why the Orz didn't seem bothered. And that's why I think they feel so awful about the androsynth, this is also why I believe they're so happy and they try to be productive.
They try to fulfil some kind of... inner need to fill a place where the Androsynth was. There is no Androsynth now, there is only Orz. And if there is only going to be Orz, then they're going to do a damned good job of being Orz and maybe the sacrifice of the Androsynth race would not be in vain. Since after all, the Orz cannot reverse this because they are not entirely sure how they caused it, they aren't what they were before the bonding. So now they wander our Universe and everything is NEW to them.
They have sensor logs of their old Universe but somehow ours is more real to them, they've never seen things like this like they somehow 'remember' seeing in their old Universe. And I agree with the person that said the Orz bubbles referred to individuals rather than anything else and the glove with the fingers referred to the race being one, unified whole. If they were a race of picites then it's possible they all have radio-telepathy and they keep in contact through that, so none of them are really singular. They're all fingers of the same hand.
And it isn't really their hand, they still acknowledge that to some degree, as best as they are capable of. So they are not a hand, they are a glove. A glove that has poked through to our dimension and left an impact, a material that has wrapped around something tangible here. So indeed, this is my latest theorem and if you actually managed to follow that (I barely did myself) without gross misinterpretations then I'm impressed! Well done, congratulations and... REJOICE! And stuff.
And no, I'm not egotistical, I just realize I'm more horribly scatter-brained than any one person has any right to be, on any day of the week.
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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I take it that your basic idea is that the Orz were created by an interaction between the Androsynth and *below* or an existing race within *below*, and the rest is just a possible mechanism for this to be the case?
Incidentally, 'picotech', if you mean technology on the length scale of picometers, is impossible if it's supposed to be made of atoms, since the smallest are six hundred picometers across, and are thus more easily considered in nanometers.
Lastly, I don't think orz marines came fully fledged onto the surface of the Androsynth worlds. I think the IDF beings drove the andosynth batty, and they blew each other up. After a time the Orz then emerged.
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FalconMWC
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..... and then took over the space once they were exterminated or *pulled*?
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Picowoof
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I look at my own writing now that I am fully awake and I realize that writing just before it was time to sleep was perhaps either a bad either or a good one, as I am either somewhat enlightened when I'm tired -- or completely insane. That of course is the choice of the reader to make.
Oh and I believe that Death is considering too much on scale. Dust becomes stone, gas becomes mineral and picomachines are able to effect things on an atomic level. Therein, it would not be hard for them to use any materials they required to effect any changes they required, the eventual effect of this would be their building of hardware onto wetware.
Furthermore, I'm going to wait a little longer because it appears that no one else understood at all. Yet I shall try and fill in the blanks. Someone in belowspace built something that spat out endless amounts of picomachines; for some unknown reason. It went wrong, so they broke it, leaving the picomachines in a state of brokenness. They locked off that dimensional layer and used it as a prison because by that point, it was already flooded.
The androsynth punch through to this prison dimension, the pieces remaining of the machine/s know from previous encounters what has done this, they read back along the sensor path and they feel intelligence, it raises some desire within them long past and they follow it. They pour out of the layer as gasseous clouds, clouds which can effect and reshape minerals -- which one would imagine would appear ghostly, they then build things which they bond with the sentience in order to be 'whole' again.
What I believe the Arilou did to the humans was double-pronged, firstly they removed any detectable patterns of sentience, or cloaked them somehow. So in effect humans would be sentient but to sophisticated scanners looking for certain kinds of sentience, they would not be. It would be like a pack of hunters following prey by its scent, then the prey taking a dip in a stream. The prey would still be the same but it would not 'smell' and this is my reasoning. This is not all I believe the Arilou did, however.
I also believe that for the same reason, the Arilou might've done a little mental reconstruction; this reconstruction has made humans 'iffy' towards any interdimensional weaknesses, it causes them to be 'scared' in a way on an instinctual level of interdimensional breaches. This might also explain why the humans had not yet discovered quasispace (heavy space) or the higherspace (pretty space) of the pieces [which are not but will be Orz].
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Picowoof
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Actually, I meant that someone in upper-space made that 'strange whatever it was', which they broke. Except I accidnetally said 'belowspace', which is where the Arilou La'leelay live, of course. So, that's it! I'm getting an account, I need to edit, I make too many typos that could be picked apart by anyone that doesn't happen to like my theories and wouldn't be able to accept that they are just theories and not confrontations. But that thought's probably a little too Spathi in nature. ... Eh, I still want an account.
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Picowoof
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Oh and one final point to make to Death; firstly, think of these picomachines as lego, they can bond together to form bigger machine parts but they're only capable of doing basic things, on the picolevel however they're just 'pieces', which is how I believe I always described them. Furthermore, isn't it slightly... what word should I use, wouldn't it be a little... okay, let's start this setnence over -- How would one know for certain that the upperspace dimensional layer even existed with a set of physics rules that matched our own? Pico might be quite large by their standards and in theory, it's possible that punching a hole into a dimension might have the effect of the dimension 'washing outwards' back into realspace, carrying the physics of that dimension with it, at least long enough for the pieces to do what they need to do.
Okay, that's it, goin' to get an account now, really!
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Culture20
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So in Picowoof's theory, maybe the pre-Orz picobots were a creation of one of the Arilou's enemies?
Maybe the picobots are merely composed of quarks or some unknown matter and thus are super-dense; if a lot of them enter TS at once spot, they instantly create an area of Mosquito-Mange.
As an alternative theory, this one has more merit in my opinion, but it doesn't seem to jive with what TFB said about Orz...
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Picowoof
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Look at me, I have an account! <ahem> Anyway... I digress, and I haven't even started yet.
You understand! Except there is one thing, not nessescarily by the Arilou's enemy. Heck, perhaps even made by the Arilou themselves! Who knows? I think it was more, "I wonder if we can make a robot THIS small. It's thinking now? It's trying to consume us? WHY?! Oh nutbunnies. Run away! Run away! Lock the door! Throw away the key! We messed up big-time!"
Another passing amusing thought was the Pre-Orz are only so far away from the Precursors.
Of course, not to suggest that the Precursors created the Pre-Orz and that they were seeking a way to escape the Pre-Orz that now desperately wanted to bond with them and knew exactly how to find them. Oh, no. Even though the rainbow planets might be a chute back into pretty-space where these Pre-Orz exist and that the Precursors had something to do with the rainbow planets.... no, perish the thought! ^.^
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2004, 04:01:56 am by Picowoof »
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Shiver
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So in Picowoof's theory, maybe the pre-Orz picobots were a creation of one of the Arilou's enemies?
Maybe the picobots are merely composed of quarks or some unknown matter and thus are super-dense; if a lot of them enter TS at once spot, they instantly create an area of Mosquito-Mange.
As an alternative theory, this one has more merit in my opinion, but it doesn't seem to jive with what TFB said about Orz...
Agreed. Clever, but too far out there.
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Picowoof
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I'm always too far out here but when you're this far out, you find that others aren't far out enough. It's all a matter of how open you are to the completely implausible, it makes for a good Scientist I'll tell you that much! Regardless, I'm not sure on validity as I never can be. Hence theorem. I've had my own theories wrung inside-out by the game itself, as well it should! Yet considering the game itself has managed to put me through the wash-and-dry so many times, I'd say the developers were pretty far out there too. At least, that's how I see it -- which of course has no relevance to anything else but I thought I'd say it just to be wholly redundant... and perky! Talking is fun.
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Picowoof
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I've had a rather constructive experience sitting and thinking about the Orz as I've acquired a few new thoughts upon them. It's likely that the dimension the Orz come from is acquatic, now that might seem a bit of an obvious statement and indeed it might trigger a well deserved "Duh." or three but it also occurs to me why the Orz might be machine-worked-with-wetware and yet why they'd appear to be simply 'fish'. If this upper-dimension where they hail from were licquid space then indeed, I would imagine it would be pretty, as our oceans are.
Furthermore, aside from their basic scans as 'pieces' in their home dimension, they really had no other contact with life. The fish and other 'sea-life' in their home dimension weren't really sentient enough to attract them (as the Androsynth had) but they were still catalogued and collectively remembered by the pre-Orz. When it came to first building upon the bodies of the Androsynth, they had no base reference to go by -- how they should appear and as their sentience formed, they decided that their visage should be like their homeworld.
And thus their ships were too, because at this point they'd had no prior fields of reference, indeed, they're still new to our Universe so these 'hard World' playgrounds are fascinating to them but for themselves, they'd only seen acquatic life and their appearance -- which strikes me as something between a crab and a fish would likely be acquatic like. And their metaphors, similarly, would be influenced by the nature of their home dimension.
The Orz knew of themselves as 'pieces', yet they understood that even then they were a whole -- linked by the radio-telepathy of their technology. Yet to a race that wasn't linked by some form of technology or empathy, they would look like a crowd of people. And in that, they would appear to be many bubbles. Even in their Pre-Orz version, they might've appeared to be 'many bubbles' but in fact they were the same acting of one sentience. Or rather, acting essences of the same sentience.
As a race with radio-telepathy isn't exactly One, per se but more like a hand with fingers, as they'd described it. It's also likely that the insides of their ships contain some kind of mixture that allows their machine-sides to function, perhaps even something they can filter through to keep the wetware (the once-Androsynth) alive. The reason for this again is that this kind of energy transferral is all they're used to. Had Star Control 3 not happened, they might've instead evolved into a race which used solar-absorption; rather than licquid.
Just a few passing-ideas in passing, anyhow. Of no real importance other than possibly for people to point at and declare, "Ooh, neat!" or, "That's crazy! You're crazy!" Either way, I'd be proud of either accomplishment, it might even trigger a yawn or three, that would be sad but again not unexpected. No matter what your reaction, I can hope that you enjoy my meanderings as much as I enjoy dreaming them up.
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Chrispy
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The nemasis certainly looks like it belongs in fluidic space.
That looks like a cool topic for a sequel. Truespace, Quasispace, and Aquaspace.
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Picowoof
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I'm glad you see that too. This had occurred to me, in an "Oh golly, their ship is pretty, it's like a Manta Ray!" sort of manner. So I think their space probably is fluidic and I also had a disturbing revelation earlier. I was thinking of the Orz again and I remember that 'translation' is one of the earliest words they happen to say. Translationfish? Babelfish even? I believe this was the developers primary intent! Of course, not Altavista's Babelfish but the true HitchHiker's babelfish. Of course... Altavista's Babelfish sounds so very much like the Orz when it translates and this brings about much helpless laughter. It would be absolutely beautiful and poetic if someone created Orz.com and based it upon the Altavista Babelfish technology.
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