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Author Topic: black spathi?  (Read 13112 times)
ChainiaC
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2004, 01:17:59 pm »

About the inertial dampers, I think we dont have to wait until we discover anti gravity. We can use diamagnetism to keep us from being pancaked against the back wall. Its already possible to make frogs float in a strong diamagnetic field. So just use massive magnets to repel the crew from the back wall. What that would do essentially is accelerate all the water molecules in your body (mostly) at the same rate as the ship and thus eliminating the feeling of acceleration.
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Ivan Ivanov
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2004, 05:55:52 pm »

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What that would do essentially is accelerate all the water molecules in your body


Water isn't evenly distributed in your body, I can imagine that high acceleration rates could lead to stomach related problems...
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2004, 06:24:33 pm »

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Water isn't evenly distributed in your body, I can imagine that high acceleration rates could lead to stomach related problems...

Well, what did your mom say about eating before venturing into space? You have to wait 30 minutes first. Grin
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Death 999
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2004, 08:17:38 pm »

Magnetic field, you mean. Diamagnetism is a fashion in which certain substances respond to a magnetic field. There are others, such as paramagnetism and ferromagnetism (which are attractive instead of repulsive).

The problem is that you need to get the field strength to decrease further away from the repelling wall. This means you can't have a magnet that's too big (can't cover the floor with them) and you can't put two of them in front of each other without specifically cancelling the fields in between.

As far as the ideas proposed in the ultimate post of last page are concerned:
well, great idea about shovelling space around. Now, any idea how to accomplish that?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2004, 08:24:07 pm by Death_999 » Logged
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2004, 08:31:59 pm »

With a Space Shovel, duh!
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2004, 08:42:16 pm »

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The problem is that you need to get the field strength to decrease further away from the repelling wall. This means you can't have a magnet that's too big (can't cover the floor with them) and you can't put two of them in front of each other without specifically cancelling the fields in between.


Well you could always say something to the effect of:
(in high pitch) Prepare ship, (back to normal) prepare ship for ludicrous speed. Fasten all seat belts, seal all entrances and exits, close all shops in the mall, cancel the 3-ring circus, secure all animals in the zoo....

All the crew would take their seats (barf bucket included) in a room designed to balance (more or less) all the forces that will affect the crew, and then all engines would go to full speed ahead!

If there will be, let's say, one room like that per crew pod, the fields wouldn't cancel each other out. Also you could change magnet to electro magnet, that way you could adapt the field's intensity to the ship's acceleration.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2004, 08:50:57 pm by Ivan_Ivanov » Logged

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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2004, 12:01:20 am »

freddine:
None of the points you made actually refers to what we know in sci-fi as inertial dampers. You just present other ways to circumvent the problem.

At point 1.:
E=MC^2 has nothing to do with inertia. It describes how energy and mass are equivalent. I suspect you meant Newton's second law of motion: F = m a (not taking relativity into account).
I think the trick is to somehow "shield" the gravity on an object, so that it appears to have a much lower mass (or none at all), thereby requiring less force to achieve the same acceleration, and being less vulnerable to being smeared over the back wall.

As for warping space: that's an approach often taken by sci-fi writers. It may or may not be what Star Trek is doing. They do warp space, but they often refer to a "warp bubble", and I'm not sure what that is for. Perhaps they are isolating a piece of space from the rest of the universe, and moving that to another location. If that's the case, they may not need the inertial dampers while moving at warp speed.

Sci-fi that uses some form of hyperspace usually just sees it as another plane in a multi-dimensional universe. You then need some way to move the ship from our normal plane to hyperspace. And you may need another propulsion system to move in hyperspace. Even the laws of physics may be different there.

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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2004, 12:05:51 am »

I should point out that while yes this is a quite dated reference, the "Black Spathi Squadron" was a wink and nod to a relatively short lived TV show called "The Black Sheep Squadron" which ran for 37 episodes from 1976-1978.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0073961/
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2004, 01:41:47 am »

I'm guessing the idea would indeed to stop thinking "with the head to the wall" about increasing speed, and rather try being more creative; and the idea of hyperspace being just another dimension is just that;
think about how long, both time and length-wise it would take you to go up from the first floor to the tenth floor of a building through the stairs, or by using the elevator. Hyperspace is just that elevator, enabling you to "warp" (= click the button) into 'solar systems' or normal space (= floor) with relative easiness. Of course, considering physics in hyperspace work for you just as the elevator does, all you have to do is find out how to enter the elevator and how to work the buttons.
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2004, 02:29:23 am »

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well, great idea about shovelling space around. Now, any idea how to accomplish that?

Uhm, with a hyperspace shovel? I dunno, but it sure takes alot of antimatter fuel and antimatter thrusters to do it. Tongue

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E=MC^2 has nothing to do with inertia. It describes how energy and mass are equivalent. I suspect you meant Newton's second law of motion: F = m a (not taking relativity into account).

Oh yeah, my bad. I guess I wasn't thinking when I put that equation down.

I've read the start trek explanation, and it seems pretty messed up. Something about plank units, and expanding warp bubbles, which somehow turns a small speed, into a great speed.  The book did mention that inertial dampeners were needed, though. It's impossible to really tell, though, because it changes from season to season.  Roll Eyes

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Sci-fi that uses some form of hyperspace usually just sees it as another plane in a multi-dimensional universe. You then need some way to move the ship from our normal plane to hyperspace. And you may need another propulsion system to move in hyperspace. Even the laws of physics may be different there.

You will have to explain why leaving the solar system gives you a free ride into hyperspace, while retreating from a battle takes a ton of fuel.

No matter how you do it, hyperspace only needs to make FTL easy/possible, while still working with the travel and fuel consumption rules of Ur-Quan. Travel will also have to cause some sort of stress to hyperspace, so it can have a nervous breakdown. Tongue

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None of the points you made actually refers to what we know in sci-fi as inertial dampers. You just present other ways to circumvent the problem.

Oops, again. Well, I guess if your ship can fly without inertial dampers, you won't need them anymore? Wink

There are alot of races in the Ur-Quan universe. Feel free to mix and match the ideas, so maybe a little of everything is used. For example, I don't think the orz have to worry about getting flattened against a wall, since their corporeal forms are little more than nifty tools.  Cheesy
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2004, 03:58:04 am »

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You will have to explain why leaving the solar system gives you a free ride into hyperspace, while retreating from a battle takes a ton of fuel.

Possibly strong gravity fields pull you back into truespace. If you want to enter hyperspace suddenly, you may have to overcome that pull.
It's not entirely certain though that you actually momentarilly jump to hyperspace when you warp out of combat.

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No matter how you do it, hyperspace only needs to make FTL easy/possible, while still working with the travel and fuel consumption rules of Ur-Quan.

Actually, unless I'm terribly mistaken, what we currently know of physics forbids any faster-than-light travel of information. With FTL transmission of information, a universal clock could be established, which would break relativity. This would mean that *any* FTL travel, whether through an alternate dimension, or using worm-holes or warping of space, would be impossible.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2004, 04:00:41 am by meep-eep » Logged

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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2004, 04:30:56 am »

And quantum entanglement is just "Spooky action at a distance"  Roll Eyes
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2004, 04:57:13 am »

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what we currently know of physics forbids any faster-than-light travel of information.

Actually, I've heard of that experiment. All it really proves, is that you can't cheat with lasers, to move data faster than light. Since light is the fastest thing we know of, we have no idea on how to make any information travel faster.

Are we talking about real life physics, or conceptual stuff for Ur-Quan? Because I am confident that mankind hasn't even scratched the surface on science. Heck, we haven't even explored past earth. How could we possibly know what's out there?

On the other hand, I don't have a problem with making stuff up to make a video game interesting. As long as it can answer all the questions about it, it'll work perfectly fine as game science.
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2004, 05:14:55 am »

There is a theory about black holes stating that a neutrino could escape. And to escape a black hole it would need to travel faster than light.
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Re: black spathi?
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2004, 06:51:32 am »

Wrong. Neutrinos are clad in relativity like all other particles. The only way it could "escape" from the black hole is if it werent even past the event horizon in the first place, but rather in extreme proximity.

Once your past the event horizon thats that. No way out from there unless you have that portable wormhole handy, hell, not even Hyperspace could get you out since it costs five fuel units near an insignificant body like a planet to emergency warp I'd surmise that it would require a nigh infinite amount to escape from a black hole.

So, uh, no. SOL is unbreakable in a conventional universe.

Oh, and dont bother bringing up dimensional fatigue as a means of collapsing Hyperspace. Thats an SC3 conciet and is thus non-canon which translates to being TEH EVIL!!!
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