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Author Topic: A Modest Proposal  (Read 5257 times)
meep-eep
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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2004, 06:24:48 pm »

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"We aren't screwing with it 'til 1.0" is fair, I guess, but with the way the game plays now it seems like 0.6 or so will be just as good as a full version.

I don't think there will be a 0.6. I actually expect that after 0.4, 1.0 will follow.

As for irritating ships, I personally don't like fighting against the Pkunk, because it makes the battle a game of chance. Sure, other ships have some randomness involved, but nothing as drastic as giving your opponent a fresh new ship (and possibly another one, and another one...).

My suggested solution to the problem is just to not put the gameplay-ruining ships in the computer's team, or banning them in person vs person.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 06:25:31 pm by meep-eep » Logged

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2004, 09:13:40 am »

The skiff can't control where it reappears when it teleports.  If it teleports onto an object--an asteroid, the planet, or your ship--it immediately dies.  I can almost always kill an Arilou skiff using a Vux simply by forcing it to teleport often enough with limpets.  The strategy takes a lot of patience, though.
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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2004, 01:52:37 am »

For those of you who really hate the Arilou, I strongly suggest you watch what the computer does against it.  (See the thread titled "OCD" for background...)

On a 14vs14 ship matchup, an awsome computer arilou is beaten by an awsome computer fleet of:

Androsyn,
Chenjesu,
Chmmr,
Kohr-Ah,
MmmmHrn,
Slylandro,
Umgah,
Ur-Quan,
Utwig,
Vux,
Yehat.

It is tied exactly by the Shofixi.  Now, some of those would require skills beyond most players to defeat the arilou.  (like the Slylandro, or the lucky-shot Ur-Quan)  But at the same time I find that the arilou are very defeatable by the mycon, and if I am feeling lazy, an earthling cruiser can usually defeat them just by using the point defense.

In some ways, the arilou is the computer's best played ship... It is the only one I believe that the computer does smart energy management on.  (It makes sure it has enough to teleport out.)

But you are smarter than the computer, right?  You can adapt.  If the computer can consistantly defeat the Arilou with 11 ships, why can't you?

W
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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2004, 08:31:04 am »

Ivy_Mike: Clever. I'll remember that.

Quote
For those of you who really hate the Arilou, I strongly suggest you watch what the computer does against it.  (See the thread titled "OCD" for background...)

On a 14vs14 ship matchup, an awsome computer arilou is beaten by an awsome computer fleet of:

Androsyn,
Chenjesu,
Chmmr,
Kohr-Ah,
MmmmHrn,
Slylandro,
Umgah,
Ur-Quan,
Utwig,
Vux,
Yehat.

It is tied exactly by the Shofixi.  Now, some of those would require skills beyond most players to defeat the arilou.  (like the Slylandro, or the lucky-shot Ur-Quan)  But at the same time I find that the arilou are very defeatable by the mycon, and if I am feeling lazy, an earthling cruiser can usually defeat them just by using the point defense.

In some ways, the arilou is the computer's best played ship... It is the only one I believe that the computer does smart energy management on.  (It makes sure it has enough to teleport out.)

But you are smarter than the computer, right?  You can adapt.  If the computer can consistantly defeat the Arilou with 11 ships, why can't you?

W


This argument falls flat due to the fact that I can trash all of those 11 ships on Awesome AI with relative ease, some of them without batting an eyelash. I'll watch how the AI fights itself as Arilou, but my skill at the game really isn't the point. My suggestion is for the benefit of newbie and average SC2 players more than the melee fanatics who've been screwing around with the game on and off for a decade that you see on the forum.
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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2004, 08:39:41 pm »

Quote

This argument falls flat due to the fact that I can trash all of those 11 ships on Awesome AI with relative ease, some of them without batting an eyelash. I'll watch how the AI fights itself as Arilou, but my skill at the game really isn't the point. My suggestion is for the benefit of newbie and average SC2 players more than the melee fanatics who've been screwing around with the game on and off for a decade that you see on the forum.


Of course you can.  If you pick the right ship.  The computer, however, doesn't pick the right ship.  Using the Arilou, beat the Chmmr.  Or the Utwig, or the Yehat.  Not impossible, but difficult.  For me at least, I can't beat an awsome computer controlled fleet of Chmmr with a fleet of Arilou.  I, of course, can beat it with a single Thraddish.  The computer can't even kill one Chmmr with a fleet of Thraddish.

The most frustrating ships for humans are the ones that we can't control as well as the computer, like the Pkunk and the Arilou.  But let's face it, since the computer sucks so horridly with almost every one of the other ships, it should have something, right?

But, back to the Arilou, the following strategies work well:
Chmmr:  Just wait.  It will die.

Earth:  Point defense, or if you have full energy, missile.  Once in a blue moon you get lucky.  Also, the arilou doesn't like to charge in if you are aiming at it, so you can keep it at bay sometimes.

Mycon:  Again, by running away and then pointing at it, you can keep it at bay long enough to heal up from the times where it gets too close.  Eventually you will get a lucky shot.

Utwig:  Stay still, aim in it's direction, and fire.  shield if it gets too close.

Yehat:  Same as Utwig.

Yes, it is difficult.  That is why the arilou costs 20 pts for a ship that can be killed by an ur-quan with a single bolt.

W
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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2004, 06:01:19 am »

Personally I think the new players should just start off as standard (weak cyborg) and work their way up like the rest of us. I worked very hard since a young child to master SCI melee and even with the 7 hierarchy ships I can defeat the entire alliance fleet (Arilou included) with 2 or 3 ships to spare (i usually have 4 to 5 alliance ships against the hierarchy though ). So the Arilou isn't as hard as you think, especially when you consider that there are SCII ships like the Chmmr that can destroy them in seconds. To me the Arilou is the hardest ship out there and the others you mentioned are much easier but to be perfectly honest I would like a harder Arilou AI. I do so much better with the ship than the computer does at it's best. If you play enough you can guess it's movements and know how to counter them. They're obvious things like aiming your weapon at it to keep at bay (which was already pointed out) and I hate that they don't use the planet to their benefit. To me that's their strongest weapon. A favorite tactic of mine used to be to camp out by a planet, wait for the enemy to come after me, and as they're passing (assuming they're smart enough not to crash) jump out and blast them before blinking away.

Heck if you work hard enough even an Ilwrath can defeat them but it is such a pain. In SCI there was a mission in campaign mode where it informed you that they had discovered that certain ships were better at certain other ships. Basically they expected you to use the Ilwrath against the Arilou and another hierarchy ship against an alliance one. Well let me tell you anyone who thinks the Ilwrath has more of an advantage against the Arilou than the Umgah are sadly mistaken but it's possible to do with some work. The joy of Star Control, to me, was mastering each ship and being the best I could be with each, even trying silly things like defeating a Yehat with a Mycon (which I did, thank you very much - it's a lot of luck and depends on you getting a gravity whip and having a good hour or so to waste lol). *shrugs* Maybe it's just me but being able to actually beat that ship which is so hard you're trying to convince people to tone it down is a lot of fun - goals = good.  Smiley
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