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Author Topic: Star Control 3?  (Read 11017 times)
Zeroarmy
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2002, 07:45:31 am »

Ok, this has to stop now. All hardcore SC fans hated or want to give SCIII a chance, even though they find it to be a poor sequel to SCII. So, instead of you reading through our nonsense (nonsense to you) to decide, I wanted to find a game review to show you what someone, who reviews games for a living, thinks. And after a little bit of work I came across this one...

http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/nov96/scon3.html

For those who don't want to read through it I'll give you the general idea. The author believed that it was a "space opera" and thought it would be good if it was a Star Trek game (horrible for non-Sci-Fi fans like myself). In addition he thought the ships and graphics were well done (shows how little he knew about SCII) and you were forced to do way too much clicking to get past alien nonsense. Also, if you're not going to read the whole review, at least read this quote...

"In the end, Star Control III is like many other adventures; go to place X, use item Y, go back to X, speak to Z, use the Thragian Floogleblender and get a new clue. If this is your cup of tea, then good luck to you; however, in most other adventures the artwork changes more significantly, certainly the locations and backgrounds do. Here, you're always at a star screen or speaking to an alien, though there are rare video cut-scenes in between."
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2002, 09:29:55 pm »

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-Some of the races were brilliant (Daktaklakpak, K'tang)
-3D starmap was suprisingly easy to use due to name filter, four different information types, rotation and the fuel spheres
-You really hated Plexor and his Crux, that accent alone is enough to inspire genocide.  You really HATED the guys, which made crushing their empire and anhilliating their flagship even more fun
-3D combat, while useless for actual fighting, looked pretty


-Virtually all the new races were just an sc1/sc2 race warped into what oyu saw there.

-It wasn't hard to "crush" their empire. Their ships just sat there waiting for you and didn't move or anything.

-The 3D combat itself was ok, but they GFX were way too grey-ish and lifeless. Plus they ships started in exactly the same position each time (the VUX warped in right next to you, but in the same place everytime). The explosions were really lame though.
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2002, 10:33:10 pm »

Star Control 3 had two things in which it did very well:

1) the 3D, infinite resolution Hypermelee.  It would have been better if the old ships had stuck around, but I like the new ships.  (Except the Vyro-Ingo.  I hate using them.)

2) The voice acting was spectacular!  I have listened to the voices in this alpha, and the voices from SC3.  the SC3 voices are infinitely better.  In addition to actully being able to UNDERSTAND the aliens, the actors -gasp- actually EMOTE!  Whoever did Niffiwan captured the spirit of hte Spathi race far, far better than the 3DO voice actor.  And the Orz voice in SC3 is great!  It actually clearly differentiates the lingual best-fits, AND the voice saying the dialog sounds like someone who would say that dialog, emoting in all the right places.

On all other points, SC3 was far worse than SC2.  I agree.
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2002, 07:08:38 am »

You think SC3 was bad, good thing SC4 or Starcon never made it out of the gate!

I mean, it looked cool, and got the community salivating again, at first, but can your really preserve TLF and gameplay of Starcontrol in 3d space?

SC3 wasn't a total waste of hard drive space, and melee was fun once i found out how to change from the horrible oblique perspective..
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Zeroarmy
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2002, 07:22:13 am »

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You think SC3 was bad, good thing SC4 or Starcon never made it out of the gate!

I mean, it looked cool, and got the community salivating again, at first, but can your really preserve TLF and gameplay of Starcontrol in 3d space?

SC3 wasn't a total waste of hard drive space, and melee was fun once i found out how to change from the horrible oblique perspective..


Ha, good point. SCIV wasn't even supposed to have any of the original races in it (probably because TFB wouldn't let them do it this time) and so it's doubtful that any of the information of SCI or SCII would've been included. By doing something like that you're basically trying to create a while new fan base.  :-/
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2002, 10:21:48 am »

I believe the big question is: if TFB wouldn't let them use any of the races from the SC series, would there be humans in SC4?
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2002, 10:36:45 am »

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I believe the big question is: if TFB wouldn't let them use any of the races from the SC series, would there be humans in SC4?


Wow good point. When I first bought SCII I was annoyed to read that Humans are the ones who will win the war for the alliance (one reason I liked SCI was because Humans weren't the main race like in other games/tv shows). Then, after playing, I realized they had to do it so the dialog would be easier to understand and funnier (imagine if a Syreen said those things to a Chenjesu  Grin). So, if they weren't going to be in SCIV they'd have to re-work many ideas and make the race, you play, similar to Humans. However, it is most likely that they just took Humans and changed their ship/made them more advanced and didn't include their past according to SCI and SCII(you can't own rights to real life things). Either way it makes for a bad game, so I guess it's a good thing they scrapped the project.  :-/
« Last Edit: December 10, 2002, 10:41:44 am by Zeroarmy » Logged
Zeroarmy
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2002, 11:08:42 am »

About the Human thing I found this on The Pages of Now and Forever:

"Fuchsia also found this in the Dec 2000 EGM issue number 137 page 156...... Apparently Accolade was making Starcon, a starcontrol game for the playstation, it was to be true 3d with climb and roll controls and you could play as any 1 of 3 alliances each with their own ending, many of the missions were actually the same mission with different objectives depending on which side you were (aka alliance one capture alliance 2 destroy alliance 3 defend) although much of the work was completed starcon for the playstation was permanently put on hold.... why? Accolade wasn't sure it would sell the kind of numbers it wanted.. and even though it was most of the way done it was put on a back burner and forgotten...."

Notice the line that I glowed. Being as you can play as different alliances I doubt Humans would've been in it (I bet they took the humor out of it then) as they can't be in all 3 alliances. Also read this other quote (the part that glows explains something that you might find interesting):

"Overall Captain, I am glad they decided to cancel this game. It did not look very good and seemed that it would not have been "worthy" of the name "Star Control". Many complained of the "Wing Commander" combat, however I found it an intriguing idea, only if all the original ships were able to be flown. This was not going to be the case, probably because of character property rights, so I am happy they did not release the game."

If you go and read the Starcon page you will see some screenshots and other things (I saw something having to do with an Ur-Quan, but I passed it by, for the moment, to post this). It's worth reading, if you haven't already, and worth re-reading if you have (I noticed things that I missed the first 2 times I read it). Incase you don't know where The Pages of Now and Forever are or can't find the link to the Star ControlIV page here's the direct link: http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/starcon/

EDIT: I checked on that Ur-Quan thing and it seems that the Hyperium alliance has the Ur-Quan in it. They have 6 eyes (3 big, 3 small) and arms that come out of their heads (check the races page). The only thing is that they're yellow, instead of black, green, or even brown (trust me it's yellow). The name of the thing is Vice Marshall Ra-Gar (Ra-Gar sounds like an Ur-Quan name) and below it are two links to hear them speak (sounds nothing like them, but it says "Hear Ur-Quan speak"). If that picture really is the Ur-Quan I bet they messed up more then just their skin color (ships, history, why they're members/founders of a whole new alliance). Oh well, like I said before, I guess it's good that the game was dropped years ago.

BTW: If anyone cares the Pkunk are in the races section too, so I think they were allowed to have to orginal races in, just not the ships. Either way, it's doubtfull we'll ever know for sure.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2002, 11:40:00 am by Zeroarmy » Logged
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2002, 06:51:28 pm »

I started out with Starcontrol back when it was released. I played it with my 386/33 and was blasted away by its simple brilliance: the game was simple to play, yet challenging to master. It contained more strategic elements than most of the games in its time. Building mines, colonies and fortresses to defend them. Mines were needed to produce RU which needed for building new ships. Colonies provided crew for ships. I even today love playing SC1. SC1 is like "The Hobbit" from JRR Tolkien Wink

As off SC2, I can only say the same thing as off JRR Tolkiens "Lord of the Rings": It is the ultimate story. The One. Only complaint I have is in the beginning hyperspace traveling seemed endless Sad.


First off. I dont think Starcontrol 3 is a bad game. Actually, I enjoyed Starcontrol 3.

The only bad thing is, that it is not "Starcontrol" as I know it: The best game ever played. So, since people have been expecting SC3 to be better than SC2, it must have been disappointment. But when I played it, I mostly enjoyed it. I didnt care about some of the stupid plot changes, most games in the time had those. Heck, still have. Precursors turning into cows really made me laugh. But I DIDNT consider it as a good ending for the SC3-trilogy. SC3 is like "Silmarillion" from JRR Tolkien. The basics were given and someone else screwed it up. Still it is mostly enjoyable.

Excuse my bad english and typos, my work day is about its end and I cannot even think straight now Cheesy
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2002, 05:51:13 am »

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The second I noticed Legend Entertainment had done the game, I knew enough not to buy it. Legend more or less existed by buying rights to cool things and then churning out a substandard game based around it. Well perhaps some people liked Death Gate, Shanarra, and their other stuff, but I certainly did not. They were also among the worst of the "big box" contenders, shipping large quantities of air around the nation.


This is quite funny Presence, because that was the EXACT same reaction my friend had when he found out Legend was involved.  I don't remember his reasons for disliking Legend, but that would make sense.

Flewellyn made a lot of good points too.  Although I don't agree completely with the significance of all of his points, they all come to mind.

(Possible spoilers for SC3 below)

To refresh my memory of SC3, I just played through the entire game this weekend.  (This is at least the third time I've played through the game)  And this time, I avoided ICOM for as long as possible.  And something interesting happened.  Because I knew what causes the end of the game to occur, I just did whatever I felt like, ignoring for the most part your first immediate goal: locating the scattered colonies of all the other League races.  I know that the Doog are really an unfair ship especially with their upgrade, so I just focused on getting them on my side ASAP.  In the process of not searching for the other races, I finally saw a LOT more of the poor coding in terms of keeping the overall story plot points linear.

For example, the Arilou appear at three points in the game.  I forget exactly what you do or where you go to trigger these appearances (except for the last one), but I managed to see them in this order: 2, 1, 3.  I already knew the plot of the game, but had I not, I would have been completely confused by this conversation.  Especially since we were talking about the Supox and I STILL had not even found the ORZ.
  Another thing happened this time that didn't happen the other times I played it.  For whatever reason, I did not find the DakTakLakPak translator (well, you don't really FIND it ... your tech team just shows up with it one day) until REALLY late in the game.  Yet, I had already told the Harika that the Daks bragged about the XChagger disease, found the cure, and convinced them to join me.  And yet, whenever I encountered a vivisector, all I heard was the gibberish.  In fact, I had my first meeting with Plexor before I found that translator.  During that conversation there are options that imply that you've had conversations with the Daks.  And yes, that conversation with Plexor can make very little sense, especially since I already had the Doogs on my side and he was bragging how useful they are.
  A third strange occurance related to the above: I found the Mother Ark Control Unit BEFORE having that Dak translator and I was able to get it fixed since I had cured the Harika disease.  Now, this is really strange because at this time, I still had not even MET the Chmmr, let alone heard of the bifurcator.  So, now I had a fixed Mmrmhrnm.  This was possible because I had already met the Owa, and acquired the scoop.  This adds to the confusion ... you can get the scoop and shuttle BEFORE you even know WHY you need them!
  On top of this, I was able to get the Eternal1 real name before I got that Dak translator.
  There was also something with the Lk and their demand for the Red Spiral rail.  Part of that conversation, if I recall, implies that you've spoken with the Daks, which I hadn't.

  Then there is the Ultron story.  The Utwig were one of the last colonies I had found, along with the Chmmr.  BUT, I was able to demand the Ultron FROM the VUX Renegades BEFORE I had even known it to be stolen.  I even had the Ultron "mostly" fixed BEFORE meeting the Utwig.

  Finally, the construction of the "meat grinder" aka the Sentience Collector.  It's strange because one of the items apparently comes from the Precursor, but I don't remember that in the conversation.  Not just that, but the piece he gave me was the one I'm supposed to get from the Daks ... the one that they used to supposedly prove that the XChaggers were not sentient.  I got the Sentient Collator from the Daks and yet it says that I got it from that Ortog.

  One thing I always found funny.  You can ask the Mycon to release as many Deep Children as you want, if you don't mind clicking through all those conversation choices over and over.  When it comes time to check the first planet for them, you will get as many Green Mycon ships as you bothered the Mycon for.  By this point in the game, you really should not be strapped for crew or ships, but having an instant squadron of green Mycon is really quite hilarious to me.

  I always found it foolish though that every time you build a new Doog colony, you can buy it ... umm, HELLO?!  I mean they are supposed to be stupid, but come on!

-PsiPhi
« Last Edit: December 11, 2002, 08:51:57 am by PsiPhi » Logged
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Re: Star Control 3?
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2003, 06:33:21 am »

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Also, didn't you ever wonder why the Melnorme trader seemed so interested in BOTH bio info AND Rainbow worlds?

I always thought that perhaps the reason they were interested in biological information was to search for ways to improve their own genetic information, to modify it. Remember, the Mael-Num fled from the Kohr-Ah eons ago, and when they reappeared as Melnorme, they are notably physically different (and probably much more competent and resourceful) from the Mael-Num that the Kohr-Ah pursued a long time ago. I imagine that they've modified their own race sufficiently so that the Kohr-Ah cannot correlate them from before-- otherwise I imagine the Kohr-Ah would vengefully focus their efforts on the one single race that so very narrowly escaped their grasp years ago.

Quote
From the surface came a plea... identical to the words you spoke a few moments ago.
The one-eyed creatures, the Mael-Num, asked so simply, so clearly
that we felt compelled to explain. While we did so, the Kzer-Za appeared.
They would not permit us to destroy, they said. Enslave, yes. Imprison, yes. But never destroy.
The moment was tense. Someone opened fire. The first Doctrinal War had begun.
While we fought, the Mael-Num escaped. We never found them again.

This would also explain why particularly powerful or resilient life forms are particularly valuable to the Melnorme, while relatively 'useless' ones like the flowers or the lavender slugs are worth almost nothing.
Quote

Actually I think it was TFB's own idea that the Mycon were the tools of the Precursors.  If you listen to their speech files, there are "flashbacks" where the Mycon repeat (presumably) the Precursors' spoken orders to them.

Based on what the Umgah say about the Mycon being genetically engineered:

Quote
We found that pretty hard understand, so when nobody looking, we clonk one on head
bring it back here to homeworld and slice it up for detailed study.
Those guys not product of ANY natural evolutionary process
they constructs!... some kind of multi-purpose biological tool.
We don't know who made them or for what purpose
but they WAY beyond anything we ever heard of.

I always figured the Mycon were tools of some malicious race that used them to eliminate/prevent sentinent life on other planets. Using them as some sort of galactic 'disinfectant' to clear out all the competition before the master race moves in. At which point they might utilize some sort of auto-destruct code (like the Slyandro Probe) or other means of easily eliminating all the rampant Mycons.

The 'flashbacks' the Mycon has:
Quote

`...the system requires more energy. A convenient source lies beneath the crust...'
`...incorporation of dense amphibole fibers ensure survival in environmental extremes...'
`...entry of noise into the signal is unavoidable. We must include a filtering mechanism...'
`...Survival is a priority. Expansion is a priority. Processing is a priority...'
`...look... think... act... look... learn... remember... teach...look... think...'
`... planetary transformer biot 94-18: take your place at the dais...'

...don't necessarily indicate that their creator race was the Precursors. Just some race that created them to convert habitable worlds into inhabitable ones.
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