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Author Topic: Bring Them Back?  (Read 11582 times)
Zeep-Eeep
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2004, 06:36:28 am »

Quote:
This could happen only in the DOS version of SC2, not in UQM. And still I don't realy belive that story. First of all the color blue is already taken by the Arilou. Secondly Humans have no sphere of influence, so if you switched the files Ur-Quan would cease to exist.       
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Having tried switching the Earthling and Ur-Quan ship files (both in SC2 and URM) I can say that, yes, the Ur-Quan's new SOI does turn blue. Also
it does not disappear. The race colours, diaglog and ship data are stored
seperately, it seems, from the positioning and size of the SOI.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 06:36:55 am by Zeep-Eeep » Logged

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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2004, 07:45:39 pm »

OK - rather than starting yet another topic on the subject of 'Has anyone considered doing...' and irritating everyone by taking more main board space I've decided to simply continue with this post, since the original aim of this topic has been fulfilled - I have my Androsynths in single player Grin. But anyway - thats done and dusted now.

Has anyone considered merging an SC1 'Full Game' option into UQM? I'm not sure how much work it would take, and its just an idea, but I've noticed one of the things people mention quite a lot about Super Melee is that they like the strategy element, and a Full Game option  would provide this.

[For those of you who are not familiar with SC1 this involved building a fleet from scratch in a star system, setting up and fortifying mines and colonies and strategic positioning of ship - basically like chess in space with star control ships, where battles are fought when opposing ships meet on the same star]

As said - just an idea. I certainly would love to see these brought back though.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 07:46:58 pm by 976-KILL » Logged

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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2004, 07:51:52 pm »

Well....

The closest thing right now is the Aftermath - Other than that, it is just a idea. I don't think it will happen soon if at all because of the work and possibly copy-rights. (not sure on the latter though)
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2004, 08:01:29 pm »

Having never being able to play SC1, i would LOVE to have a go at it!
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2004, 08:16:09 pm »

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I don't think it will happen soon if at all because of the work and possibly copy-rights. (not sure on the latter though)


*sigh* Your probably right. Thankfully Dosbox exists so I can run my original disk on XP. Miss a few of the new ships though. Still I didn't have my hopes up. I wasn't really meaning it for me personally anyway - I just meant that that kind of thing would probably be desirable to many people who play the game.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2004, 08:18:08 pm by 976-KILL » Logged

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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2004, 08:20:02 pm »

Watch out, just for thinking about it, SWAT and FBI will be showing up very quickly. Watch out for the RIAA too =p

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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2004, 08:32:17 pm »

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So what your proposing is that none of the good ships/ships the majority of people favour should be utilised by the single player, and that only the really naff ships that no-one really likes should be available?

Seems a waste of good design work to me......

[no offence meant to those who really enjoy using Zoq-Fot Stingers etc - Its just people, at least from my experience, do tend to prefer Utwigs, Chenjesus and generally the more powerful ships i.e. above 10 points.]

I agree Synth are powerful. I can beat down most anything with a fully staffed Synth, BUT vs computer AI, possibly the most valuable ship is the Thraddash. At least with synth, whilst most battles are winnable, they do require some skill to pull off. With a Torch, which ARE EASILY ATTAINABLE in the main game, you can easily beat every ship, assuming its computer controlled. Do you propose that Thraddashs' are, so to speak, banned from the single player too?


To be honest, I think Torches are overpowered for single-player and I doubt that the AI's stupidity versus the Afterburner is intentional. I'm no expert but I imagine figuring out pathing against an Afterburner-like device would be rather complicated, and Paul and Fred did say before that they often ran with cool, implementable ship ideas first and tried to balance them second. I do consider using Torches to effortlessly kill enemies to be almost like exploiting a bug; at least using Fwiffo takes some practice.

Yes, cool ships are fun, but the single-player game is meant as a progression from beginning to end facing challenges along the way, not as an hour-long festival of whoop-ass. And the choices of what ships you get to play are dictated by what makes a realistic and fun story just as much as what's fun to pilot; if you want to go crazy with random ships the Melee option is right there, after all. Or are you proposing that the game storyline should somehow find a way to allow you to pilot Dreadnaughts and Marauders?

I doubt that even if the Orz storyline didn't exist you'd get to pilot Guardians in the game -- after all, there's a little thing about the Androsynth both being Hierarchy thralls and having a burning, unyielding hatred for their parent race.
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2004, 08:39:25 pm »

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In Androsynth's case, there is a significant problem without native starship captain's. The Guardian is piloted by a number of Androsynth's and they communicate with each other telepathically. (see the captain screen with four guys, each with one task. specially the one who only controls one button is very interesting) So they always know exactly when to 'press the right button'.


Androsynth are telepaths? Maybe that has something to do with why they discovered Dimensional Fatigue.

But they could just be very, very well-trained to work as a unit, each one knowing what the right course of action to take in a particular situation is. Androsynth were bred for that kind of coordination and obedience, after all. (On another note, it is sort of a contradiction that you can be reduced to one crew and still have four guys on the captain screen -- if you take that whole "crew" thing entirely seriously, of course.)

Watching the ZFP fly is also pretty funny. And that captain screen makes a bit more sense, since my impression is that each ZFP triplet functions as one crewman... Yes, the guy on the right has no job but to do the tonguing. Smiley
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2004, 12:32:03 am »

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the single-player game is meant as a progression from beginning to end facing challenges along the way, not as an hour-long festival of whoop-ass.


I agree, however I feel you have missed my point.
When starting this post I was in no way proposing that the code be changed - only asking whether I could change my game so that I could enjoy the game how I wanted it. At the end of the day I never asked whether people thought this should be possible, only whether it was possible - and it is. Frankly, I don't care whether you think I should be doing this or not or whether the lack of native captains or storyline would not permit it in reality.
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2004, 12:48:49 am »

One other thing on the subject of bringing things back.....

Scrapped ships.....  why exactly are the scrapped? I mean, whilst you get RU for scrapping equivalent to the cost of buying a new one, wouldn't it make more sense to just store the ship in the starbase [I mean it is a starbase after all] so that a) You could bring it out again later - especially with ships you can't build yourself - say when one got destroyed and b) so that in the event of an attack the starbase would have some defense.

I know this sounds like another proposal for a change to the game and in a way it is, but for the most part I'm just wondering whether there is a legitamate reason why a starbase bigger than your ship is unable to hold ships for later use - especially seeing as how it already holds the materials to make them. Is it so that your limited in your use of ships you only get a certain number of or what?
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2004, 01:50:07 am »

As far as gameplay is concerned, I believe that scrapping the ships is supposed to "melt them down into raw materials", whereby you can build other things, like landers, et. al.  Since there's a 1:1 ratio of scrap price to new ship cost, what is the practical difference whether it goes into the drydock or the trash compactor?

In terms of the game story, the Spathi/Ilwrath Earthguard force was supposed to provide all defense against attack, and the Ur-Quan would not allow the humans to have their own ships; if they showed up to find even a single non-Hierarchy vessel around the Starbase, they would undoubtedly destroy it, likely destroy the Starbase, and possibly exact retribution on planetary surface targets as well.  As the story currently plays out, the Starbase commander can play "dumb hominid" with the Ur-Quan fairly convincingly so long as the Vindicator is not around; it's the Spathi and Ilwrath who would be in trouble for the state of affairs in Sol.
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2004, 04:19:21 am »

Moreover, just because the Starbase is bigger than your ship doesn't mean that it's full of empty space. The Starbase is supposed to be packed with various forms of manufacturing and repair machinery, and it'd be kind of unusual for the Ur-Quan to leave very much empty docking space lying around, since the Starbase is supposed to only be a maintenance station, not a battle platform.

And yeah, it would be a totally unnecessary gameplay wrinkle. Most of the time scrapping is exactly the same as storing because you lose no RU in the conversion. If you think you're going to need a ship that you can only build for a short time in the game, like the Eluder or the Torch, then just build it and save it in your ship. Slots aren't that precious.
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2004, 08:21:59 pm »

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As the story currently plays out, the Starbase commander can play "dumb hominid" with the Ur-Quan fairly convincingly so long as the Vindicator is not around; it's the Spathi and Ilwrath who would be in trouble for the state of affairs in Sol.


Except for the tons and tons of precursor fabrication technology they ripped out of the precursor vessel when they refitted the space station...

I guess that could be dumped into the slave shield or something, if it came down to it.
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2004, 08:56:30 pm »

That would work till the precursor ship came back and needed fuel... Wink

Besides, you'd think the Ur-quan would know something is wrong if the people were alive. They would be asking around and I don't think that a human could stand up to ur-quan tortue very long. Even if they could, I am sure that 1 in 1500 people (I think that is how many people on board....)  on the base would tell all just to get a favour..... (maybe no though)
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Re: Bring Them Back?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2004, 09:57:33 pm »

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Having tried switching the Earthling and Ur-Quan ship files (both in SC2 and URM) I can say that, yes, the Ur-Quan's new SOI does turn blue. Also
it does not disappear. The race colours, diaglog and ship data are storedseperately, it seems, from the positioning and size of the SOI.


Now THIS is strange!
Becaue from my expirience changing tha shp fiiles (in SC2) was my way of finding the location of undiscovered races. I usualy switched the race I wanted to find wih Spathi, as they are the first you meet. After taling with Fwiffo, Spathi's SOI appeared in the location of the race I wanted to find.
The SOI colors were switched.
Their sizes were switched.
But if you changed the Spathi file to some SOI-less race file, Spathi's SOI did not appear.
This happened to me when I changed Spathi.shp and Chmmr.shp, I cant remember wheter or not I was playing around with the earthling file, but I don't see a reason for it to act differently then the chmmr.

I think it will be much simpler if I just checked to see if it's true, since you say it works with UQM, and that's what I'm gonna do as soon as I download UQM (forgot to do it after recent windows reinstalation)

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That would work till the precursor ship came back and needed fuel... Wink


They could always buy it from the Melnorme

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Besides, you'd think the Ur-quan would know something is wrong if the people were alive


COMMANDER HAYES: Power down all non essential sub-systems! Turn the bridge light to red! Lt. Smith you'll be at the light switch turning it on and off! Everybody get ready! Ok, here they come. Open hailing frequencies!

COMMANDER HAYES: Attention unidentified space vessel!
I am Starbase Commander Hayes of the slave planet Earth.
our hyperwave broadcasts -- extremely weak
situation critical -- energy cores exhausted
scanners and deep radar are non-functional
we cannot identify your vessel
Are you the scheduled Hierarchy resupply ship?
Repeat, are you the resupply vessel?

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