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Topic: I can't get the spathi to talk to me. (Read 9310 times)
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Bobucles
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Sorry, I put that post in the wrong forum. Please forget about it. :-/
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Art
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What is a precurser data plate?
Records on which the Precursors stored their secrets, like the secret of warping into subspace, of building an effective Vindicator-sized cloaking device, and of communicating with the creator-god-entities at Groombridge. Search in Alpha Centauri and you'll see. 
Without your help, he would've been dead. You managed to destroy an Ilwrath Avenger in one hit. Don't forget that your flagship is more to scale with a space station, than another starship. Plus, to take wisdom from Fwiffo, you have very big guns, and Hayes didn't. I think with all that, Hayes would have a little respect for you.
The commander was reluctant at first. But you were the last hope that Earth had from beating their Ur-Quan opressors. So, he took that chance.
Well, yeah. I said if he were doing his *duty* according to Ur-Quan law, not what he should have done, or would have done. Hayes is a human being with some sense of honor, gratitude, and species-loyalty, not a mindless toady for the Ur-Quan. Had he not had faith in you the most he probably would have done would have been to send you on your way emptyhanded. Actually turning you in would be out of the question; he would never have done a thing like that unless death were imminent.
Which means that there pretty much wasn't any chance for Hayes to escape unpunished if the Ur-Quan had somehow traced your ship to his starbase, not as long as Hayes stuck to his most basic principles (not to rat on a fellow human who'd saved his life, just to please masters he hated), which may have been part of the reason he decided to throw his lot in with you.
One of the main things we find out as the game goes on is how different races' cultural ideologies almost immediately override all the laws the Ur-Quan tried to impose on them as soon as the Ur-Quan turn their backs. One of the main problems with trying to hold an empire.
The Ur-Quan weren't very careless at all. They took multiple precautions to safeguard those tricksy humans -- they just underestimated the willfulness of their slaves. You could've been easily stopped if that Ilwrath captain hadn't, in all probability, grossly violated procedure by taking the probe and not passing it on to a higher authority. And that's ignoring the horrendous lack of discipline that led to there not being an Earthguard force waiting for you, which would've nipped the whole thing in the bud.
Just had to note, in virtualy every storyline with humans humanity in general wants freedom more than life so it doesn't surprise me that hayes and the majority of the station personel would be behind you. About the only time there are cowards depicted is when the storyline needs them and then shows them die horibly. This intent towards freedom will show up when there is an obvious chance of freedom over death. In sci fi humans tend to be rather predictable.
Enh. It is one of our more enduring and universal cultural traits; whatever the character of individual humans might be, most human cultures have a nationalistic bent that urges members of a culture to resist domination and enslavement by foreigners. This is, in general, a fairly basic survival trait for cultures to have.
Also, we should remember that there may be an element of self-preservation as well as honor behind Earth's decision to get slave-shielded. Slave-shielded humans, if humiliated and cowed, are nonetheless, at least, safe. Along the same lines, Hayes and his crew are not a random sampling of Earth's population; presumably to work on the Starbase one has to volunteer or at least show strong qualifications for the job. Starbase crew would be, like Hayes, people used to the dangers of space and used to risking death to do their duty.
I think SC2 did a good job of showing Hayes' doubts and deliberation before assisting you; being more waffly than he was would be uncharacteristic of someone in his position. As it is, Earth doesn't have all that much more to lose, especially from Hayes' perspective. Compare his reaction to Talana's, which is also in its way a very human one.
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FalconMWC
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Posts: 1059
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Well, you have to remember, that he hated teh shield and the ur-quan all his life and probably realized that this was going to be the best chance he was EVER going to get.....
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« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 07:44:00 pm by FalconMWC »
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Art
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True, but you did'nt prove very much at all by destroying that Avenger, and Sure he hates the Ur-Quan, but does he hate them enough to risk Earth's destruction?
This threat is weaker than it would be if the Ur-Quan hadn't disappeared for the past several years and seemingly completely stopped enforcing the slave laws. Though the game text doesn't refer to it explicitly, which is a shame, the state that the Moon base is left in and the almost nonexistent Hierarchy response to the Ur-Quan drone (it sounded like he expected a full Dreadnought fleet; instead you got a half-working Avenger) show that the Hierarchy isn't as much of a threat as it used to be. Those tasks weren't just to prove how strong you were; they were to prove how strong you were *versus the Hierarchy*. Even if they don't prove that the Vindicator has godly might, they prove that the Hierarchy has apparently decayed to the point where the Vindicator has a chance.
In fact, the current state of affairs might give Hayes a reason to be more bold than he would otherwise be, wanting to take advantage of what may be a fleeting moment of weakness in the Ur-Quan before they come back at full strength.
By the way, I don't think the Kzer-Za's morality would lead them to annihilate humanity for your crimes; their ethos of shared responsibility would certainly lead them to punish Earth for your crimes, but since the crimes were all carried out by just a couple thousand Earthlings who were completely isolated from all the other humans, and they were only possible because of the chance discovery of a rare piece of Precursor tech, I don't think the threat posed would merit genocide, something the Kzer-Za (to their credit) consider a great evil.
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Art
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No, homeworlds just generate an infinite number of ships until you run away, unrealistic as that might be. The game won't let you commit genocide directly. Besides, as we were talking about in an earlier thread on the Kohr-Ah, blasting cities on planet surfaces probably requires weapons very different from the Vindicator's ship-to-ship combat systems.
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