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Author Topic: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers*  (Read 76330 times)
Zeroarmy
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2002, 10:53:50 am »

Quote
So many theories! Thank you everyone for posting! I started this thread with hope that more than three or so people would give input, but now there are so many replies... it's just so interesting to see everyone's take on this topic!

I hope this doesn't shift the overall topic, but I think this ties in to it:

Is it just me, or do the Orz seem rather juvenile and advanced in their conversations at the same time? I mean, they get VERY angry if you simply mention the Androsynth... their lingual "best fits" sometimes seem rather purposefully humorous ("*Jumping Peppers*!! It is *smiley* time!!")... hell, they even try to make jokes with you sometimes!

I sometimes get the impression (regarding the latter example) that the Orz are trying to "fit in" as a "typical" alien race that inhabits what they call *heavy space*. Obviously, they are not "typical" in most senses, as reflected by their complex language and how they only speak in present tense. But the Orz go out of their way to make an alliance with you, supply you with plenty of ship plans, and attempt to make casual jokes ("Yes, we do! Hello! I am only joke. It is funny enough! Don't forget to *enjoy the sauce*!!") with you to lighten the situation of their strangeness.

This is just my take on it... if you have any concurrences or differences, please post away!


I always used to think it was a side-effect of the hive-mind theory (like they weren't quite right). The Mycon are good example of this. But, anyway, I like your idea better...They could be like the Supox (in a small way) where they are trying to act as normal as possible so that they don't draw attention to themselves.

Quote
And I must ask two more questions, one of which I asked earlier with no answer, but it is okay if you're too focused on the primary issue to answer them. Here they are:

1) If the Orz are projections of a different-dimensioned being/entity/species, why did they/it choose the physical form of fish-like creatures that breathe from a liquid ethanol solution?

2) On a lighter and perhaprs sillier note, what do you think the meaning of *enjoy the sauce* is?

Thank you so much everyone for contributing!


You always have the most interesting questions.  Cheesy Anyway, as to question 1 I have two possible theories. The first is that they breathe that in their home dimension and they had no choice but for their *fingers* to breate it in this one. And the second is that they have some sort of master plan and being able to breathe that will protect them from what they are going to do (this one is a little out there). After all, if they could decide what they would breate, in this dimension, why wouldn't it be something that was common? At least that way they could fit in/colonize more worlds without having to change the enviroment.

As for question 2. I have no idea, so I won't even try answering. Hopefully, someone will be able to though (I'd really like to know).
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2002, 03:58:00 pm »

First, I just want to say that I'm a little upset that I missed out on this topic for so long.

Next, to ZeroArmy, you are without a doubt the most prolific writer on this forum.  That's not a criticism, just an observation, because I see you every where and you are all over this forum.

What is killing me is that earlier you made a few points that I was going to argue against, like the Chmmr being the "rocks awakened" and the "Utwig bomb" destroyed the Sa-Matra, not the Ultron, but others beat me to it.

Anyway, I totally agree with you about keeping SCIII out of this topic field.  There are other topics that are specifically intended for discussions of that game.

Anyway you said:

Quote


as to question 1 I have two possible theories. The first is that they breathe that in their home dimension and they had no choice but for their *fingers* to breate it in this one. And the second is that they have some sort of master plan and being able to breathe that will protect them from what they are going to do (this one is a little out there). After all, if they could decide what they would breate, in this dimension, why wouldn't it be something that was common? At least that way they could fit in/colonize more worlds without having to change the enviroment.


I was thinking that perhaps they can breathe through their *fingers* just as a crustacean (lobster), have neither lungs nor gills, breath through its carapaces (exo-skeleton).  Just a theory as is every thing here.

Now, in answer to the Orz langauge, Soviet_Inclination, I must tell you, I nearly jumped out of my chair when I read your first post asking for translations, because 8 years ago, I made an attempt at just that.  And, is if by coincidence, last week, while going through a box of old computer games, I stumbled upon a notebook that contained my attempt at translations.

(I still have not been about to find my old notes on the various mineral and bio contents of worlds and my Quasi-Space connections though I've already rewritten that ... I kept extensive logs the first two times I played this game and I had even made a map of the quadrant on about four pieces of graph paper that I had taped together, because I am crazy obsessive when I get into something and SC2 completely hooked me.  I just liked to have my own map ... it made me feel like more of an explorer ... one thing I did discover from doing this ... the stars apparent locations in the game don't EXACTLY match their coordinates, but that's nit-picking)

Anyway, although some of these have already been mentioned by others before this, and many match my exact thoughts, here is my attempt at translating (with question marks to denote that even I was stretching for an answer):

*good news* = information
*pieces* - years? A measure of time?
*smell* - to know of, to see, to look
*level* - dimension, universe
*happy town* - interesting universe?
*slippery places* - dimensional portals
*fingers* - extension of itself, the ORZ themselves
*new town* - new unknown universe
*campers* - races, species, sentients, our human species?
*silly cows* - unbelievable (stupid) idiots? annoying beings
*dance* - fight (w/ships)
*jumping in front* - getting in the way
*juice squeezing* - to make peace using up energy
*frumple* - mad, deeply upset
*happy campers* - interesting species willing volunteers for absorption
*playground* - planet, star
*slow time* - dimensional differences, Time moves slower here?
*heavy space* - dimensional differences, "Space" is difficult to travel through here, requires more fuel
*spit* - to tell, to say
*GO! GO!* - space marines
*other* - the enemy of the Orz (whoever that may be)
*happy time* - time to celebrate
*game* - the action being done presently
*enjoy the sauce* - have a good day Orz way of saying bye
*expanding* - learning, growing
*squishy* - good, goodness
*anticipation* - anxiously waiting?
*the middle* - a meeting, to meet in between above and below, this dimension
*pleasant combinations* - great news?
*successful* - accomplishing
*party* - final meeting, joining?, absorption?
*play* - exist
*friends* - acquainted
*open* - advance your (technology) mind
*spread the wax* - share yourself
*become* - transform, advance
*happy* - knowledgable
*tired* - bored with
*silly* - stupid

That's all I had written.  Now, if I recall, in the PC version you pushed the space bar after everything the Orz said and you could see it all written out again.  That's exactly what I did and I sat there and thought, "what words or ideas could I substitute for these that could make some possible sense of this conversation and stay consistant through out".  I remember rereading through the Orz conversation and it making a lot more sense, at least to my general satisfaction.  There are some things they say that you are just never supposed to understand.  I think you just have to accept that.

It's just so funny to me that you brought this up because frankly, I was tired of not understanding to my satisfaction what it was the Orz were talking about.  That's when I just decided to write the dictionary ... I had already finished the game once prior ... I just wanted to see if I could make sense of the Orz.

Among my favorite expressions were:
*frumple* ... this always made me laugh.  My friend and I started using that word after playing this game to describe things we did not like, and we often ended e-mails with *enjoy the sauce* my next favorite one.  Even to this day, we'll refer to each other as p(k)unk (intended as the word "punk"), with a smile.  Yeah, we're total geeks that loved this game.

I have not included any thing from SCIII because frankly, like ZeroArmy said, let's keep this topic within the realm of TFB.  Also, I wrote this translation before SCIII was ever released and I've never used it to try to see if it works in SCIII.  It probably does, because if any one has bothered to notice, a LOT of the dialog in SCIII from the various home quadrant races, matches phrases from SC2 ... sometimes it seems like word for word, especially the species histories. But that's for another topic.

In terms of who the Orz are, I always saw them as a projection of a single creature.  They were merely a small part of that creature's body, its *fingers*.
Also, I noticed my translation does not include *many bubbles*, but I figured that a bubble meant a single life form.  The captain was one *bubble* and your ship is full of *many bubbles*, but Orz are not, "we are just Orz".  It's like someone saying, "no, I'm not multiple people, I'm just Larry".

I agree with peoples explanation of "above" and "below" in that it is both a designation that our plane of reality sits in between theirs AND also that "above" meant a nicer, safer (heavenly) place and "below" meant a harsh, scary (hellish) place.  Strange that I never connected *middle* to mean this plane, this dimension, but at the time, the word "meeting" seemed to fit.  I also always felt that since the Orz are mere projections into our dimension, they aren't really "completely there" ... they are like a light being projected into a dark room, except that they have substance.  Maybe I've watched too much Babylon 5.  ;-D

I never thought of the Orz not being able to comprehend time at all ... maybe they don't comprehend the way time works in our dimension, but this idea that they just exist as a 4D entity meeting a 3D dimension creating bubbles (pockets of existence, substance) that to us look like single life forms is a fascinating new thought to me.  If this is the case, then perhaps they can "see" the Taalo in the past ... since time is different here, and the Taalo are not ALWAYS existing throughout time in this physical place, perhaps it seems to Orz as if they are playing some kind of trick.  Now, I seem to recall some mention that the Taalo escaped genocide from the Kohr-Ah, but I fail to remember WHERE in the game it is said, who says it and when?
  But then again, if the Orz says *pretty space* then he can't mean TrueSpace, because the Orz refers to that as *heavy space*.  This would mean to me that, yes, the Taalo some how did escape to another "place" ... whether that is Quasi-Space or something completely different, I don't think any amount of speculation can be made to prove what *pretty space* is to them.  Only Fred and Paul likely know.  Personally, I always thought the inside of the Arilou ship looked pretty, with it's multi-colors and the streaking lights, but THAT is such a stretch to then say that Quasi-Space is *pretty space* unless some other character in the game confirms that.

  While I'm on the topic of races from the Sentient Milieu.  We are told that the Yuli and Drall (and Taalo) were destroyed by the mind controlled Ur-Quan and that the Foz were slave shielded by the Kzer-Za, which means they could still exist, somewhere.  The Kohr-Ah cleansed the Yuptar, but the Mael-Num escaped after they used THE WORDS and the Kzer-Za showed up in time and provided a distraction for them.
  Now, my point is ... is there any one out there that DOES NOT believe that the Melnorme ARE the old Mael-num race that escaped?!  Am I wrong, but were the Mael-num described to have one large eye? ... not that that's unique given the Spathi and VUX.
  Ah, I should take my own advice and discuss this somewhere else (that is if it doesn't already exist as a topic).

In terms of the Androsynth looking up ghosts, I think it was because like your science officer, they were being attacked by things they could not see and they probably started going crazy.  The world may have been nuked in a mad attempt to stop whatever it was they had unleashed.  Now, I would argue that it was not necessarily the Orz who attacked and/or killed the Androsynth.  Who knows WHAT exists down *below*.  I think the Orz just took advantage of this new discovery to go exploring a place they had never *smelled* before.  Why they get upset when you ask about them ... that never made sense to me.

<rant>
All these explanations I have read seemed too contrived OR based too much on SCIII, which like I have said earlier, I am completely ignoring in this topic.
  Don't get me wrong, your ideas are interesting, but a lot have serious flaws in them.  You should admit when you are making a lot of speculation (like ZeroArmy admitting "this one is a little out there").
  All this arguing back and forth about what the Orz real intent seems to me like arguing over what God likes in his tea, that is if he even drinks tea, or even drinks, or even exists at all.  You can not prove it to me one way or the other through any thing other that pure speculation.  And that's no proof at all.
  I think I completely understand why ZeroArmy was getting so frustrated during the course of this topic, because reading through a lot of this, I felt the same way.  Not only because this topic should be free of SCIII discussion (I took it that this post was asked in terms of SC2 exclusively), but also because all this arguing over pure speculation is such nonsense.
  Doctuh_Jay, though your points are interesting, they have no place in this topic.  I think it would be best if you formed your own topic that specifically mentions that you'd like to discuss the overall plot of SC2 and SCIII combined, especially concerning the Orz and the Eternal1s.  Discussion of the Eternal1s is TOTALLY off topic here.
 The meanings of the Orz and Arilou in this discussion is concerning SC2, as if SCIII never existed ... so you must take all those ideas from SCIII and temporarily put them on hold.  You were backing up your arguments with plot from a story ZeroArmy and mage were ignoring for this topic.  And yet even after it was explained, you continued to bring it up.  Start a new topic and leave a message here that you invite people to discuss it there, if they are interested.
  I enjoyed SCIII, probably more than most, in spite of its failings in linear plot development due to poor coding, but I explained this in a seperate topic labeled "Star Control 3".  I understand that it was not made by the original creators and in this they were not completely happy with the end product.
</rant>
« Last Edit: December 12, 2002, 02:09:15 pm by PsiPhi » Logged
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2002, 04:57:43 pm »

Quote
First, I just want to say that I'm a little upset that I missed out on this topic for so long.

Next, to ZeroArmy, you are without a doubt the most prolific writer on this forum.  That's not a criticism, just an observation, because I see you every where and you are all over this forum.


I knew someone would bring this up sooner or later. Not too long ago I realized I had over 50 posts and so I looked around and I saw that I had more then anyone else. After which, I decided to try and cut back, but there are some topics which I can't help but reply to. *Sigh* I've never ever had the most posts in a forum before, but I guess that SC is a more important topic, to me, then I thought it was.  :-/

Quote
What is killing me is that earlier you made a few points that I was going to argue against, like the Chmmr being the "rocks awakened" and the "Utwig bomb" destroyed the Sa-Matra, not the Ultron, but others beat me to it.


Well I said the Taalo were the rocks awakened, but it was really the Chmmr (it says shinny rocks are awaked my an explosion of light) and yeah I made a mistake with a Ultron (again sorry if I confused anyone). When I used to make replies in forums, which was a long time ago, I never replied so much so I guess I'm not used to it. Anyway, I know how you feel. I'm normally only on at night, since I work during the day, and so I find a lot of topics replied to with the things I wanted to say.

Quote
Anyway, I totally agree with you about keeping SCIII out of this topic field.  There are other topics that are specifically intended for discussions of that game.


Thank you for that (people were getting on my nerves).


Quote
While I'm on the topic of races from the Sentient Milieu.  We are told that the Yuli and Drall (and Taalo) were destroyed by the mind controlled Ur-Quan and that the Foz were slave shielded by the Kzer-Za, which means they could still exist, somewhere.  The Kohr-Ah cleansed the Yuptar, but the Mael-Num escaped after they used THE WORDS and the Kzer-Za showed up in time and provided a distraction for them.
Now, my point is ... is there any one out there that DOES NOT believe that the Melnorme ARE the old Mael-num race that escaped?!  Am I wrong, but were the Mael-num described to have one large eye? ... not that that's unique given the Spathi and VUX.
  Ah, I should take my own advice and discuss this somewhere else (that is if it doesn't already exist as a topic).


Yeah I think everyone thinks that the Mael-Num and the Melnorme are one in the same. Fred and Paul spent the entire game hinting that they were and, personally, I doubt they'd do all that as a sick joke to trick you. But then who knows.  Wink

Quote
<rant>
All these explanations I have read seemed too contrived OR based too much on SCIII, which like I have said earlier, I am completely ignoring in this topic.
  Don't get me wrong, your ideas are interesting, but a lot have serious flaws in them.  You should admit when you are making a lot of speculation (like ZeroArmy admitting "this one is a little out there").
  All this arguing back and forth about what the Orz real intent seems to me like arguing over what God likes in his tea, that is if he even drinks tea, or even drinks, or even exists at all.  You can not prove it to me one way or the other through any thing other that pure speculation.  And that's no proof at all.


I completely agree. A few theories are one thing, but when you find someone saying you're wrong because their theory is better, you find yourself being forced to play the game, gather proof, and report back. It's become very time consuming. Tongue

Quote
I think I completely understand why ZeroArmy was getting so frustrated during the course of this topic, because reading through a lot of this, I felt the same way.  Not only because this topic should be free of SCIII discussion (I took it that this post was asked in terms of SC2 exclusively), but also because all this arguing over pure speculation is such nonsense.
  Doctuh_Jay, though your points are interesting, they have no place in this topic.  I think it would be best if you formed your own topic that specifically mentions that you'd like to discuss the overall plot of SC2 and SCIII combined, especially concerning the Orz and the Eternal1s.  Discussion of the Eternal1s is TOTALLY off topic here.
 The meanings of the Orz and Arilou in this discussion is concerning SC2, as if SCIII never existed ... so you must take all those ideas from SCIII and temporarily put them on hold.  You were backing up your arguments with plot from a story ZeroArmy and mage were ignoring for this topic.  And yet even after it was explained, you continued to bring it up.  Start a new topic and leave a message here that you invite people to discuss it there, if they are interested.


Well it wasn't really that they were talking about SCIII in general (although I do have issues with it so I tend to get annoyed when people act as if it's the holy grail). It was simply that it should be clear to anyone that the guy, who started this thread, wanted to talk about what TFB had in mind, yet the same couple of people kept explaining what SCIII said. Then they were told that we didn't want to know what SCIII said (like you explained above) and they kept it up. One of them even went so far as to say the Taalo weren't alive because of what was said in SCIII. Yet, just a few posts before, someone cut and pasted part of a chat log where Paul and Fred said they were really alive. After a few posts like that you feel like you want to rip your head off.  Angry

Quote
I enjoyed SCIII, probably more than most, in spite of its failings in linear plot development due to poor coding, but I explained this in a seperate topic labeled "Star Control 3".  I understand that it was not made by the original creators and in this they were not completely happy with the end product.
</rant>


Since you brought up SCIII I want to clear something up for everyone who reads through this thread....I don't completely hate SCIII. The idea of the Eternal One's was nice, but they didn't back it up well enough and the ships were fun to play with, but they had no place in SCIII (the Crux probably could've beaten either of the Ur-Quan). In short, I think it's a fair game, but it doesn't deserve the name Star Control and I simply get a little annoyed when people treat the details from it as if they really happened. But, anyway, like you said, if people want to talk about it they should start a thread of their own.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2002, 04:59:29 pm by Zeroarmy » Logged
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2002, 05:21:47 pm »

Quote
Oh another note, does anyone know what *parties* in the *middle* mean?


My *guess* is:
 *dance* = fight
think bigger (=more *dancers*) and you'll get:
 *party* = official declaration of war

 *above* = where the Arilou LaLee´lay come from
 *under* = where the Orz comes from
so
 *middle*  must be in between. Might be Truespace, because the Orz might tell you the directions as he sees them.

 *heavy space* seems to be those parts of Truespace, where there is gravity (e.g. aroung planets, moons, sun, ...)
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2002, 05:26:05 pm »

To ZeroArmy:
I guess at this point you have the right to yell, "nnnGGGHHHHHNNNNN!!!!" because those *silly cows* made you quite *frumple*.  They are not *happy campers*.

Yeah, sorry, I just had to do it.

Enjoy the sauce

-PsiPhi
« Last Edit: December 11, 2002, 05:31:14 pm by PsiPhi » Logged
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2002, 06:42:34 pm »

I stand chastised, Psi Phi.

I'm trying to not use anything from SC3....


Just had a new thought on *slow time*... if you buy the theory that the Orz only think in present tense, then *slow time* probably refers to the fact that in *heavy space* time flows, rather than being all at once.

Of course, this is all theoretical, all of it!

I call to the creators!  Only they, with their infallible knowledge of the game, can answer our questions!  HELP!

(okay, so I'm sucking up to them... they deserve it for doing this port!)
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Orz language
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2002, 07:03:56 pm »

Quote

2) On a lighter and perhaprs sillier note, what do you think the meaning of *enjoy the sauce* is?


As seems a bit obvious from my previous post is, that I believer that the Orz is a single entity, that enjoys the way of war and fight in this dimension.

Therfore I take most of these *translations* and refer them to something around fights.

*Enjoy the sauce* could mean: Enjoy the winning! Enjoy the fight and above all, enjoy that you've beaten the opponent.

Therfore i translate *juice squeezing* differently than PsiPhi with "fight to the death"
*playground*: any good place for a fight (with gravity), maybe refers to the fact, that the Taalo seem to the Orz more "alive" here than elsewhere (a good place to *play* for the Orz).
*silly cows* i translated as "annoying beings"

Nevertheless, this topic became my favorite one, because here you can see, what made SC2 so great: everybody found something special to do in the game. Some went to translate *Orzish*, some went to strip every bit of minerals and life from any planet, some just replayed and replayed to perfect their time-score. And there was so much to do, to discover, to change the universe, without affecting the continueing of the game itself. Take the Yehat rebellion. It was not necessary at all, but just fun. And i did not care, that the rebellion did not win, and that it was not necessary at all, to win the game. You just didn't need anything from the Yehat. Just for the fun of it, I started a civil war in a culture, that has been stable longer than we humans have historical records about ourself!
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Re: Orz language
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2002, 01:48:53 am »

Quote

As seems a bit obvious from my previous post is, that I believer that the Orz is a single entity, that enjoys the way of war and fight in this dimension.


I like that theory. Smiley


Quote
*playground*: any good place for a fight (with gravity), maybe refers to the fact, that the Taalo seem to the Orz


I translated this to "homeworld".

Quote
Take the Yehat rebellion. It was not necessary at all, but just fun.


I found it very useful. If you get pkunk and yehat rejoin, they bring you full fleet of ships before sa-matra. And fury is the best ship you can have there.

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And i did not care, that the rebellion did not win

Didn't win? Does the rebellion ever end if pkunk don't arrive there?
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2002, 02:27:42 am »

"Many bubbles" obviously refers to _cells_.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2002, 02:59:35 am »

My theory, in more detail:

The Orz is not evil, but are so not-like-us that he is dangerous.  Yes, the *nggn* is the Orz.  The Arilou have been frustrating their attempts to enter this dimension -- *jumping in front* -- for a while, but the Androsynth opened up a new pathway.

The Androsynth were destroyed when the Orz pulled them through to their dimension, where beings like us can't really exist.  The Orz wasn't -trying- to kill them, but, y'know, you can't squeeze tomatoes without making *sauce*.

The Orz is singular, and is not a *light reflection* like us -- he is not made up of *many bubbles* (cells).  He's completely different.

The authors at one point said that they were going to do something like have something Really Bad happen if the player entered QuasiSpace with an Orz ship in tow, but they never got around to it.  Too bad!

-Pete
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2002, 03:07:34 am »

Quote
My theory, in more detail:
 The Arilou have been frustrating their attempts to enter this dimension -- *jumping in front* -- for a while, but the Androsynth opened up a new pathway.

-Pete


The only problem with that theory is that the Orz couldn't *smell* Truespace until the Androsynth started experimenting!  I think the Arilou have been frustrating Orz efforts on many planes, and they were totally sucessful with Truespace, to the point where the Orz didn't even know it existed!  (Until the Androsynth started looking, that is.)

Otherwise, I think you're right on.  The more I think about it the more I think that the Orz is one being, or at least there are far less Orz than there are *fingers*.

The Orz tried, for whatever reason, to have the Androsynth "enjoy *the change*," but it didn't work, and that's why the Orz is/are upset about it.

And, while the creators have said that the Taalo exist, I still think that the Orz refer to them is present tense only becuase they have no notion of past tense.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2002, 04:35:09 am »

Wait a minute; when you form an alliance with the Orz, don't they call it an *alliance party*?  Declaration of war wouldn't work to well there, unless they're totally fooling you with their intentions.
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wake
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2002, 07:50:29 am »

Quote
That's exactly what I did and I sat there and thought, "what words or ideas could I substitute for these that could make some possible sense of this conversation and stay consistant through out".  


A question for all you translators:

If the translations to these words make conventional and obvious sense when inserted into the English sentences, then why wouldn't the ship translator have picked them up? Given that we know the translator is effective (there were several races that humans met for the first time in SCII, right? And the translator was find with them), it seems unlikely that it wouldn't be able to do the same job.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2002, 08:07:27 am »

My theory on that is as follows:

In many cases, the Orz refer to a simple concept, like Truespace, for example, but they refer to it in a way that we can't understand!

For example, they talk about *heavy space*, which many people think refers to Truesapce.  I think it is talking about some aspect of Truespace we don't get, the *heavy* part.

Its like trying to tell a blind man you're talking about an apple by saying"the red thing".
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2002, 09:09:50 am »

wake - The translator was inable to produce a word that would correspond with what the Orz were (was) saying.  It DID do a translation as well as it could, thus it gave some loosely related words.  *Below* means exactly that, but in a fourth dimension.  Same ideas with *above* and *middle.*

Now, a few more thoughts I've come up with (notice that I switch between plural and singular.  Bleh!):

*Playground:* this is the planet of the former Taalo.  The word playground implies that it is fun for the Orz.  The translator tripped up because there is no word for WHAT they do exactly there.  The Orz say it's no fun in slow time, which further reinforces my point.  Now, look at the three facts then:

The Orz find the place fun.
The Orz don't find it fun in slow time.
The planet used to be inhabited by the Taalo.

Now, what does this mean?  Well, assume the Orz have no concept of time.  They do not have "time" in their dimension.  They exist in the past, present, and future, all at once.  They refer to the present tense all the time because that's all there is: the everlasting now.  But, as they are new to the *middle,* they still haven't thought up words to express the concept of time.  *Slow time* is the closest they have, which probably implies that they are experiencing things at a linear rate, instead of whatever they want, as they do in their home dimension.  Now, back to the *playground.*
Since the Orz experience everything at once in their own dimension, and the *playground* is more fun in non-slow time, aka, any time BESIDES the present, it will imply one of three things:

The *playground* is interesting because of how it changes.
The *playground* was interesting in the past.
Or the *playground* will be interesting in the future.

Now, let's just go on possible implication #2.  #1 seems implausible, because if they have no concept of time, change would be lost on them.  #3 is still a go though, but we're going with #2 because there are more implications.  If we wish to cross over into the "real world" for a moment, we could point out that a sequel would take place in another region of space, as this area has already been pretty much secured by the end of the game.  Of course, only TFB could answer this, but I think I'll get back to the important things.

Now, going on implication #2.  This would mean that the Orz finds something that is fun/interesting in the past.  What was in the past?  The Taalo, of course!  This gives a huge (though somewhat obscure) hint at an Orz-Taalo connection.  Now, seeing as the Taalo still live (crossing over into the real world again =P), we can draw the conclusion that the Orz took the Taalo away.  Isn't too far of a stretch, is it?  Of course, this could be wrong, and instead it is implication #3 that is true, and that this was simply a hint at the content of a sequel.

Well, that's all I can think of.  I might've forgotton something while writing this, though.  Oh well.
Well, I'm ALMOST close to being done here.  There is something else.  On the idea of *Nngn,* if the Orz are the *Nngn,* and yet Orz is really a single being (there I go with switching between plural and singular), then how come the Arilou refer to them in the plural form?  Another theory is that although the Orz is a single being, it's projected fingers are the *Nngn,* and the Orz that we see, although they share a collective conciousness.
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