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Author Topic: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers*  (Read 87731 times)
Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #255 on: August 06, 2004, 11:33:26 am »

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A couple cannon discrepencies:
Arilou "moving" their homeworld is a SC3 fantasy.
Ur-Quan with squeeky voices is an (IIRC) Interbelum fantasy.

While I'm correcting things, allow me to correct your 4D grammer, Art.  
"It'll still be there for your past self to find in the future." -> "It willen being there for your past self to having found in your past-self's future." Wink


Well, Arilou moving their homeworld is only made explicit in SC3, but it's... fairly well implied by SC2. Pockets of TrueSpace with inhabited planets on them presumably don't just pop up by themselves in QuasiSpace.

As far as Ur-Quan communication... hrmph, have I really been caught quoting fanon? (Yes, I do consider SC3 fanon and not canon.) Well, the Talking Pets must either be translating Ur-Quan thoughts into speech directly, or the Ur-Quan must be capable of communicating at inaudible frequencies, because there's no audible noise made when the Talking Pet "translates". I think the latter one makes more sense since it means that Ur-Quan don't have to change their normal way of talking at all when talking to inferior species.
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Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #256 on: August 06, 2004, 11:35:53 am »

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The coolest logical, practical use of time travel for problem solving was regarding the key/distraction/trashcan in Bill and Ted's Rxcellent Adventure, IMHO.

The 4D grammar was AWESOME =p
Oh, and if you take the Taalo device, then it will still make you disappear and be trapped in the infinite loop I mentioned.


Hey, there's a reason that all but the first few pages of that book are printed blank -- no one has the patience to slog through that nonsense.

But according to Bill & Ted logic, if your mission succeeds without a hitch, you'll put the device right back where you found it before returning to the future, and history will be just peachy. If you *fail*, you'll lose the shield somewhere in space, it won't be where you need to find it in the future, and your past self will get killed in the war and the events of the sequel will never happen. Since you *didn't* get killed, and the events of the sequel *are* happening, that means that it's an established historical fact that you won the scenario in the past and you're protected by fate, right? Smiley
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Sander Scamper
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #257 on: August 06, 2004, 09:16:50 pm »

Im sorry Art, i know how much you like to prove me wrong with 3-4 pages of well written text, but whenever i think about Time Travel, it just gives me a freakin huge headache =/
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #258 on: August 07, 2004, 01:58:05 am »

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Pockets of TrueSpace with inhabited planets on them presumably don't just pop up by themselves in QuasiSpace.


They might if you accept the 'QuasiSpace is a mental plane' argument from the 'They cannot see you now' thread, which seems about as reasonable as any conjecture abou the nature of other dimensions (such as HyperSpace and QuasiSpace).  And actually, the argument about QuasiSpace travel requiring 0 fuel use, and yet your ship coming to a swift stop when you're not thrusting, is fairly compelling; that doesn't make any sense by normal physics, and it doesn't even make much sense by slightly-odd 'closely related but different dimension' physics.  The idea about QuasiSpace (and therefore your ship, while you are in QS) being a psychological construct is kind of a good one, IMHO.

On the other hand, the Arilou *do* refer to their homeworld as being "nestled in a TrueSpace eddy", which suggests an actual physical planet and not a psychological manifestation.

*shrug*
« Last Edit: August 07, 2004, 01:58:25 am by taleden » Logged
Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #259 on: August 07, 2004, 04:15:58 am »

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They might if you accept the 'QuasiSpace is a mental plane' argument from the 'They cannot see you now' thread, which seems about as reasonable as any conjecture abou the nature of other dimensions (such as HyperSpace and QuasiSpace).  And actually, the argument about QuasiSpace travel requiring 0 fuel use, and yet your ship coming to a swift stop when you're not thrusting, is fairly compelling; that doesn't make any sense by normal physics, and it doesn't even make much sense by slightly-odd 'closely related but different dimension' physics.  The idea about QuasiSpace (and therefore your ship, while you are in QS) being a psychological construct is kind of a good one, IMHO.

On the other hand, the Arilou *do* refer to their homeworld as being "nestled in a TrueSpace eddy", which suggests an actual physical planet and not a psychological manifestation.

*shrug*


The main thing is that if the Arilou are native QS-ians who have always been pure spirit, there's no reason for them to carry their rigmarole of ships and bodies and stuff to the point of making a home planet for your benefit. Particularly because seeing it there is actually more shocking than not seeing it, and because they don't actually let you go down and explore it anyway -- it has the feeling of something that's there because the Arilou want and need it there, not something they need you to see. Which makes it more believable that Arilou are, like you, TrueSpace beings who went into QuasiSpace and took their TrueSpace trappings with them, rather than QuasiSpace denizens who live as pure mind.

Your mind needs your ship to come with you when you travel through QS, so it does; probably in just the same way the Arilou needed a world to live on when they migrated en masse to QS, so Falayalirafali came with them, and is still there even if it's been changed to something more than an ordinary planet.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #260 on: August 07, 2004, 04:25:07 am »

Well - thinking about it - it starts to make less and less sense about the quasi-propell/no fuel problem. See, you are required to get a ur-quan warp pod for it to work. Now, the pod will require fuel - And not just 10 units to get started - I imagine - to keep it going, you have to have it taking in fuel at quite a bit of speed.  
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #261 on: August 07, 2004, 04:52:35 am »

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Well - thinking about it - it starts to make less and less sense about the quasi-propell/no fuel problem. See, you are required to get a ur-quan warp pod for it to work. Now, the pod will require fuel - And not just 10 units to get started - I imagine - to keep it going, you have to have it taking in fuel at quite a bit of speed.  


Hm?  I always thought the warp pod just needed fuel to power it while it did whatever it does with the Arilou's IDF-generating equipment; once the portal has been opened and you've gone through it, is any of that stuff still running?  I figured you were just in QuasiSpace at that point, so the warp pod wouldn't be doing anything.
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Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #262 on: August 07, 2004, 05:06:46 am »

Yeah, the Portal Spawner does gulp down fuel every time you use it. Forgetting about this fuel cost has left me in trouble before, stranded in Hyperspace on my way back to Sol. Time to call the Melnorme again.

It is creepy how those guys have a way of turning up no matter where you are. Makes you wonder what they're not telling us about what they can do...
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Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #263 on: August 07, 2004, 05:18:25 am »

Oh, yeah, also the Portal Spawner definitely isn't what you use to go through QuasiSpace. It can't be, because before you can get the Portal Spawner you have to enter QuasiSpace using the natural portal and go to Falayalirafali and ask them to make it for you, all with nothing but your regular ship and its regular engines.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #264 on: August 07, 2004, 05:47:49 am »

Excellent point  - Maybe the ship used umm..... Quasi - Rocket Boosters?  Wink

That would be neat though (and slightly unfair) if the precursor ship could appear anywhere in hyperspace. Come to think of it - It really should with a little reverse engineering. I would not mind paying 10 in fuel every once in a while to get where I want. Though the postions would be seriously messed up compared to hyperspace...  
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Art
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #265 on: August 07, 2004, 10:36:18 am »

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Excellent point  - Maybe the ship used umm..... Quasi - Rocket Boosters?  Wink

That would be neat though (and slightly unfair) if the precursor ship could appear anywhere in hyperspace. Come to think of it - It really should with a little reverse engineering. I would not mind paying 10 in fuel every once in a while to get where I want. Though the postions would be seriously messed up compared to hyperspace...  


I don't think they know how to make Quasi-Rocket Boosters at the Starbase so it's unlikely the Vindicator comes with any pre-installed. I think the QuasiSpace as spiritual-dimension thing works a bit better than trying to think of a way where QuasiSpace somehow follows alternate laws of physics.

And... not having to rely on QS portals would make using QS seriously messed up, since if the portals really correspond to Hyperspace by some rule then the topology of QS is seriously messed up relative to Hyperspace. More likely the portals are constructs within QuasiSpace that either by accident or design (of the Arilou) lead to various Hyperspace locations irrespective of their QuasiSpace locations, just like portaling into QuasiSpace leads you to the same QS location regardless of whether you use the Spawner or the natural portal (and regardless of where you spawn the portal).
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #266 on: August 07, 2004, 11:37:13 am »

Space is 3D, how do we know that because we are looking at it from a VERY different angle to hyperspace, it just appears to be messed up?
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #267 on: August 07, 2004, 02:16:42 pm »

On the subject of Ur-Quan speech, keep in mind that you don't really hear most of the races.  They're your computer translating.  

You can't hear the true Ur-Quan speak because the verbal communication is comming from the Talking Pet.  You have to remember that being a translator is their ultimate punishment, hence one reason they never take the time to personally learn your language.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #268 on: August 07, 2004, 11:47:14 pm »

My personal thoughts have always been the Ur-Quan thinks directly into the Talking pet, and the talking pet translates and transmits it indirectly to your ship.

One confusing idea...
What beef do the Ur-Quan have about learning our language? None of the races do learn any other language, the universal translator does that for them?
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"Space is a dangerous place where wimps eat flaming plasma death" -The Zot....or is it the Fot?? We may never know...unless the guy in the back tells us!

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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #269 on: August 08, 2004, 05:22:32 am »

Ur-Quan seemingly view themselves as the top life form around.  Makes sense, I suppose, as they are one of the oldest.

Why should THEY have to stoop down to OUR primitive level?
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