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Topic: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers* (Read 101388 times)
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andrewjb
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How about this Arilou quote?
"No. We seek not to invade, but to pervade. There is a difference.
Your stories of evil creatures... these are just... side effects.
Pay them no heed."
Hmm... they also mention "our earth".
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Pestilence
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I know this topic died out a few days ago, but I just got here and had one observation I wanted to add...
Does it really matter if Orz knew about something before it arrived, if it does in fact exist in/at *all times*? Orz couldn't sense us/this dimension until the Androsynth started playing with the IDF technology, but once it did sense us/ this place it came. At that point, since it exists at all times, it knew about us before they got here, even though they didn't...
Same with their interaction with the Taalo. Does Orz exist in all times at the location it's *fingers* occupy? Then they could have conflicts with the Taalo when they lived in the same area of space, even though that didn't originally happen.
Just one of those wonderful time paradoxes to add to all the rest of the mystery. I'm not sure that I myself believe what I just posted, but it certainly is helping make even more things possible in my mind... as if there weren't enough possibilities already.
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WimpBastard
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has it ever occured to anyone that the Orz may not be a sngular entity but rather a large empire like most other races?
Most empires often refer to huge fleets or armies as a tool or weapon like "The Hammer of the Emperor"
*fingers* is a bad translation of what could simply be fleets and ships or even individual Orz
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Casey
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The Orz's line goes something like this:
"I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*. My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you think you see Orz but it is really *fingers*."
This seems to fairly clearly suggest that what we see as an individual Orz is actually a small part, or projection of a larger entity, most likely one that doesn't even reside on this plane. Of course other possibilities are present, but that seems like the most logical one. Perhaps the Orz just have some form of hive mind.
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OHHDEAR
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The Spathi had to have been right. The Orz must have found Androsynth flesh to be delicious and ate them.
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wminsing
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Okay, just want to through in an idea I had while playing the game. I was thinking "if the Orz crossed into True Space from another dimension, where is the portal that brought them?". Then, I started to wonder "well, maybe the Orz closed the portal after themselves, if they need a portal-type thingy at all". That of course, begs the question why would they do such a thing. What if they closed the portal/passage/easy place to prevent something else from coming through after them (so they are some sort of Inter-dimensional refugees)! For example, I never really felt that the invisiable "slashers" on the Androsynth homeworld and the Orz were one and the same, the behavoir dosn't really match up. But what if the Orz came to True Space in order to flee these "slashers", and the "slashers" are some of those Things Man Was Not Meant to Know that the Arilou mentioned? That would explain a few things:
The Arilou don't trust the Orz. However, in this version of events, it's not the Orz themselves the Arilou don't trust, but the association between the Orz and the "slashers". They are worried that you getting close to the Orz will allow the "slashers" to *smell* humanity. And maybe the Arilou aren't sure the Orz kept ALL the *slashers* out.
The Orz don't like the Arilou, as the Arilou kept them from "migrating" to another dimension before. Of course, the Orz don't like this, but from the Arilou point of view it was justified in order to protect True Space. But that explains the Arilou-Orz mutual distrust.
The Orz don't want you asking about the Androsynth as they are worried that by you knowing too much these "slashers" will *smell* Truespace and come across (similar to the Arilou, but they can't explain it was well). This might also explain why the Orz seem to be going out of their way to "fit in" with the normal True Space races, they are trying to mask thier *smell*. And why they might of destroyed the Androsynth after they came (they knew too much). It does NOT explain why they let you investigate the Androsynth homeworld, though. Also, if the "slashers" could *smell* the Androsynth before, why aren't they coming to TrueSpace except on the Androsynth homeworld? Maybe they can only *smell* the parts that people who Know Too Much live(d)?
It's possiable the Arilou and the Orz are not diametricly opposed, but simply have somewhat different views of the same subject. Basically, the Arilou want to keep ALL extra-dimensional critters out of True Space, while Orz, now that they are here, don't want anybody else coming in either.
What so people think, totally whacky or being some merit? I don't have a lot of time to go through the dialouge looking for evidence, but I am sure I could find something to support this. The biggest stumbling block is how the Orz say they are not *light reflections*, they are only *fingers*. I have some ideas on that, but I've jabbered on long enough tonight. 
My second, and much more mudane explanation, is that the Orz and Arilou have simply fought (or are fighting) some inter-dimensonal cross-time turf war, and have been fighting it for *time* out of mind, and Orz have opened up a new "theater of operations" (Hyperspace/Truespace, circa 2157 AD  ).
-Will
P.S . Do people think the Orz crossed over with all the current technology they have, or developed after they arrived. I mean, if you look at sphere of influence, it is quite small, implying (I think) a smaller number of ships. So, did they have a small number to start with, or did they start from scratch? Thier tech must also not be too different from normal, if your Star Base can replicate it. Plus no interia-less drives or quasi-space portals like the Arilou have.
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Scott
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does whatever a spider can
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See, I've just never thought that the plot of SC2 was all that complicated. To have that kind of big bad backstory and not mention it, um, at all, that doesn't seem like TFB's style. The Orz killing the Androsynth is the obvious answer, and I can't think of really any point in SC2 that had twists where the obvious answer WASN'T the real answer.
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Soviet_Inclination
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The Ariloulaleelay and the Orz share only one "official" connection: from the context of their speech and patterns (and from the game SCII itself), it is clear that the Arilou and the Orz are both from a different type of reality/time/space/whatever than we are as humans. Though, yes, they do both seem kind of like parasites when you take certain things in the game into account...
By the way, I'd like to thank everyone who's posted on this thread; I never thought it'd grow to be this large, or that more than three people or so would give their tuppence. Thank you so much, everyone!
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Krulle
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Okay, just want to through in an idea I had while playing the game. I was thinking "if the Orz crossed into True Space from another dimension, where is the portal that brought them?". Then, I started to wonder "well, maybe the Orz closed the portal after themselves, if they need a portal-type thingy at all". The portal was made by the Androsynth (IDF-research on their homeworld). These portals seemed closed when your scientist arrived.
That of course, begs the question why would they do such a thing. What if they closed the portal/passage/easy place to prevent something else from coming through after them (so they are some sort of Inter-dimensional refugees)! For example, I never really felt that the invisiable "slashers" on the Androsynth homeworld and the Orz were one and the same, the behavoir dosn't really match up. But what if the Orz came to True Space in order to flee these "slashers", and the "slashers" are some of those Things Man Was Not Meant to Know that the Arilou mentioned? That would explain a few things:
[..]
The Orz don't want you asking about the Androsynth as they are worried that by you knowing too much these "slashers" will *smell* Truespace and come across (similar to the Arilou, but they can't explain it was well). This might also explain why the Orz seem to be going out of their way to "fit in" with the normal True Space races, they are trying to mask thier *smell*. And why they might of destroyed the Androsynth after they came (they knew too much). It does NOT explain why they let you investigate the Androsynth homeworld, though. Also, if the "slashers" could *smell* the Androsynth before, why aren't they coming to TrueSpace except on the Androsynth homeworld? Maybe they can only *smell* the parts that people who Know Too Much live(d)? Okay: I'd say you've proven that Orz has nothing to do with these slashers and that Orz doesn't know about them. Other wise he wouldn't have let you research the Androsynth ruins.
IF he knew about the slashers:
where did the slashers go after the destruction of the Androsynth? I just do not believe, that Orz made a population control of these *slashers* and cut of his own way home.
It's possiable the Arilou and the Orz are not diametricly opposed, but simply have somewhat different views of the same subject. Basically, the Arilou want to keep ALL extra-dimensional critters out of True Space, while Orz, now that they are here, don't want anybody else coming in either. The Arilou LaLee'lay don't mind much about other Inderdimensional beings. Just about some of them (like the *Nggn*,...). Only those that can harm you.
And the Orz do not talk much about the subject lifeforms in the place of their origin.
Maybe these two are like the shadows and the vorlons (SpacecenterBabylon5). One (the Arilou) seems the better way, but both are not to be trusted beyond certain points.
Gotta get some sleep. Sorry for the weird answers?
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Tom Schumm
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I always thought the Orz were an obvious reference to Edwin A. Abbott's "Flatland". The implication being that they were 3 dimensional projections of the *FINGERS* of some sort of 4 dimensional creature whose nature and motives we will never be able to fully grok because of our three-dimensionalness.
Oh, and I think the Orz are evil. Like the most evil creatures in the game. Way more evil than Dynarri. The Arilou are evil too, but only a little, and that really makes the Orz mad. Only pure evil is good enough for them.
OTOH, the Orz might just be insane fish creatures talking about whatever nonsense happens to be bubbling around their heads at the moment.
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Krulle
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*Hurghi*! Krulle is *spitting* again!
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WolfJaguar: No, SC3 does not explain the *Nggn*. It does not explain anything about the other dimensions. Even the way other dimensions appear are very different from SC2.
Tom Schumm: I do not know Abott's "Flatland", therefor i cannot confirm if it is a reference.
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unigolyn
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Here's my .02:
1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?
Basically I take this to mean that the Arilou's plane of existence is higher up than the Orz. Think of it as a pyramid, with Truespace being sort of the middle level, Hyperspace being a bit higher, Quasispace higher still. This correlates exactly with travel distance - hyperspace 'contracts' distances between stars in normal space, and quasispace 'contracts' distances even more. The Orz are obviously from something quite a bit below Truespace, and our space is also 'contracted' in relation to that dimension. Which kinda explains why the Orz prefer Truespace - their dimension must be incredibly vast, and, well, boring.
2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?
I think it's the things you see in hyperspace and quasispace, darting and leaping. *Nggn* is probably the Arilou word for them, and that's about as mysterious as it gets. What they actually are is anyone's guess, I'm betting they're some sort of 'energy source', at least in the sense that the Arilou benefit from them.
3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?
Well, most of the stuff already said here, I agree with, I'd only like to explain a few things that I have differing opinions on:
*many bubbles* - not cells, as someone put it, but three-dimensional matter - what are we, other than a collection of many bubbles (particles)?
*heavy space* - Truespace, and other planes of existence which have three-dimensional matter with mass. This ties in with:
*gravity centers* - Stars, planets, any occurence where gravity pulls all the 'bubbles' together to make actual physical places.
4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?
I also think the Orz is actually one single entity, and the fingers are something akin to 'souls'. Not the religious sense of the word, but 'conciousness'. The Orz are manifested here as fishlike creatures, but unlike us, they lack separate 'souls', and are instead a sort of 'puppets' that the Orz entity uses to make contact with heavy space. Since it seems the Orz dimension is non-physical as far as we understand the term 'physical', it makes sense for the creature to call the manifestations it uses to interact with things in this reality 'fingers'.
As to the Androsynth, this is pure guesswork, but I think they were used to create physical manifestations for the Orz. They're not *happy campers* because they resisted. As long as you are friendly and cooperate with the Orz, you are deemed as a willing 'donor' of your biomaterial. If you start asking about the Androsynth, you're deemed as unwilling and therefore unfriendly. The Orz aren't evil per se, they just think it completely normal that others sacrifice themselves for Orz. They consider us vastly different from themselves, and quite possibly inferior. I don't think they're evil in the classic sense, because a nonsocial singular entity can't really have a concept of morals.
5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?
Beats me. Probably using their understanding of linear time to their advantage in dealing with the Orz, whether that dealing means 'running away' or 'doing business' or whatnot.
6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?
Interfering, or more accurately, doing preemptive work to thwart the Orz. Since they have no clear understanding of linear time, they can't say 'getting there before we do', so they use the present-tense approximation 'jumping in front'.
7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?
Because our previously mentioned 'souls' (and I reiterate that I mean this in a non-religious way) are at least partly extradimensional, explaining why Earth scientists can't detect what the Arilou did to us. They probably tweaked our 'souls' so they moved to a dimension or realm undetectable to the Orz and other such entitites. The IDF experimentations negated this: Interdimensional Fatigue - creating cracks and fissures between various dimensions, probably resulting in a point or portal which can access several different dimensions at once. The Androsynth did this, and at first the Orz, and whatever else might have seen this portal, came through in their noncorporeal form, detectable to the Androsynth via their nonphysical 'soul', but not to any of their equipment, because that only detects normal matter and energy. After a bit of looking around, the Orz apparently started consuming the Androsynth in order to give physical form to its *fingers*. My take on this - Androsynth are dead, gone, never coming back.
And somewhat related to the discussion here, here's how I rate some SC2 races in order of evilness.
1. Melnorme - They seriously creep the bejesus out of me, what the hell do they need with the rainbow worlds?
2. Orz - It/they may not be doing it out of anything resembling 'malice', but if it/they needs more fingers, we're supposed to be *happy campers* and comply.
3. Arilou - I'm dead sure they're not altruistic, and doing this because they love us so much, but I don't think they're evil. I think they admire us, such as you would admire a puppy who learns that his tail is his own and there's no need to chase it. I don't think we're cattle to them, and although they're using us for some reason, they're also going to ensure our survival if they can.
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Cyamarin
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Interesting...the Orz mention something about how it's too difficult to *hold together* in their home dimension, so they went to *heavy space* where it was easier. If *below* was as much more spread out than Truespace as Truespace was to Hyperspace, thent that would make a good deal of sense.
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