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Author Topic: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers*  (Read 88303 times)
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #195 on: February 07, 2003, 04:14:02 pm »

I think you are treating the word "fingers" too verbally. Let's use the Star-Trek Borg analogy - each ship is a part of a huge collective. That'd make sense - the Orz's "fingers" are simply ships sent through the portal to our dimesion. That's the only reason they're called "fingers" - because it's not the whole race, just an expedition, so to speak.
I don't say the Orz have a collective mind, but perhaps an overlord..
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #196 on: February 07, 2003, 04:26:05 pm »

Possibly Smiley

I have to say, the idea that the Orz are a drone race, with a collective conciousness is a lot more belivable to me than the idea that the Orz is an entity, that somehow projects itself into our entity. But if they are all indeed separate creatures, with the same large all enspanning mind then how do they look in their dimension? The same as here? Different? If they look the same, what's with the poltergesit stuff, and if they dont look the same and are simply a race in another dimension, then how did they build their current bodies?

Questions I fear will never be answered Smiley
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #197 on: February 07, 2003, 07:16:02 pm »

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I have to say, the idea that the Orz are a drone race, with a collective conciousness is a lot more belivable to me than the idea that the Orz is an entity, that somehow projects itself into our entity.


Yeah, I would also think that, however TFB has explicity said that the Orz is a projection of a singular entity.  Here's a link to the famous chat (forgive me if this has already been posted, but I didn't see it):

http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/history/files/scchatlog.txt

This is a great topic BTW; I've read through every post over the past few days.

I'll add one hypothesis that I haven't seen anybody mention:  What if the Taalo were the "ghosts" that the Androsynth were researching?  While the Taalo *slid* out of Truespace, perhaps some vestigal remnants of themselves was left on their world as an imprint and manifests as apparitions; or, perhaps *pretty space* in this case is a parallel dimension where they would still present on their homeworld in some sense, but invisible to creatures in this dimension (this doesn't match with the little we know about *pretty space* though).

I don't really believe that the ghosts are the Taalo, as the poltergeists appear to be either the "slashers" or the Orz, and clearly the Taalo wouldn't be either the "slashers" or the Orz.  I did think the idea was interesting though.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #198 on: February 07, 2003, 07:54:21 pm »

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I have to say, the idea that the Orz are a drone race, with a collective conciousness is a lot more belivable to me than the idea that the Orz is an entity, that somehow projects itself into our entity.


I agree that it is more believable but that's why the idea doesn't appeal to me as much. I mean, the Orz are from another dimension. As far as story goes, that leaves a lot of room for creativity. You don't have to approach their development with the same limitations that you would with races native to our dimension. I'd hate to see that kind of potential go untapped.

But that's just my opinion.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #199 on: February 08, 2003, 01:58:00 pm »

That's a creative name you got there  Wink

Yeah, I know the way it is and has been stated, I'm just saying that's what I'd personally prefer, not that it has any bearing whatsoever on what really is...

Good point Matticus, beings from another dimension should be very different. I suppsoe I just can't cope with the unknown. Well, maybe an Orz *finger* will visit me one day and explain...

-------EDIT

Forgot to answer the thing about Taalo ghosts.. It's a neat idea, it could well be that seeing some sort of energy remnant of the Taalo is what got the Synths started on researching IDF. ANd then the slashers came
« Last Edit: February 08, 2003, 01:59:23 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #200 on: February 08, 2003, 03:23:09 pm »

Kizor - I just want to clarify that I was joking.  Yes, that was a bit of sarcasm, but I took no offense.  It's near impossible to convey here that I'm kidding around without me saying it explicitly.  When I said I smiled when I saw that people had taken the time to read through all these posts, I meant it.  I know you were complimenting me.  If you actually took the time to read through all these debates, that is a great compliment to every one who has contributed.
  The reason I said "But I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong (yes, Kizor, it's possible)", is that good debater or not, I have been convinced that other's ideas had more merit than mine.  So, although I was not offended by you saying it was madness to argue with me, I was concerned that you would think it futile to try.  It was just my sarcastic way of saying, "Don't give up.  I'll listen."

Matticus - I'm glad to see you posted your thoughts.

Concerning the humans not being the center of everything because the cruiser is a ship with limitations, and in SC1 they were low on the list, let's not delude ourselves that this continues on into SC2.  Yes, the Alliance lost.  Yes, the humans on Earth were slave-shielded.  But a human, you as captain, saved EVERYONE from total annihilation at the hands of the Kohr-Ah.  Yes, you could not have done it alone, single-handedly.  So many contributed to the cause through ships, crew, technology and information, but in the end, you as a human, along with the incredible ship you commanded were the focal point through which final victory was realized.  Aside from the commander and crew on the starbase and the people of Vela, humanity as a whole may have played a small role in contribution, but it was a human that blew up his treasured ship to make the total difference.  If that doesn't make humans important in the SC universe, then what does?
  I don't believe the Orz are interested in humans alone.  They not only mention that the are interested in the Taalo, but I recall they also approached the VUX, although they ended up *dancing* because the VUX constantly asked about the Androsynth.  The Orz are interested in our dimension and its species as a whole.  Why specifically?  I don't know and neither does any one else here.  We can all just speculate.  The Arilou on the other hand, are interested in humans specifically ... almost blindly.  They really don't seem to care about any of the other local species (other than rescuing the Dnyarii).  Whether they care about other species in other places ... again, pure speculation.  (Unless you count the Nggn)  Tongue

  Aside from the recent connection made with Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, which I really only find sort of humorous to contemplate (a bunch of Space-Lennys ... LOOK-OUT Space-rabbits!), I feel that this thread may be exhausting itself in fresh ideas.  I see the same sort of posts showing up, asking the same questions, trying to squeeze information out of the same text, with little more than pure speculation.  Even some of the speculation is starting to sound repetitive.

I think wminsing may be right.  Even I'm overwhelmed at the size of this thread.

-PsiPhi
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #201 on: February 08, 2003, 04:31:36 pm »

But it's a nice homely thread... i like it Smiley And in todays harsh and modern world, it's nice to know that some things are immortal.

So how about it, what do you think of them Orz guys huh?
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #202 on: February 08, 2003, 09:13:34 pm »

I thought I would add my own ideas into the fray:

Quote

1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?


Others have explained this fairly well -- Arilou and Orz are each from different dimensions, but the Arilous are from a dimension more like our own, whereas the Orz dimension would be more energy/psonic based as opposed to a physics-based one.  

In the Arilou dimension your ship can still fly,  your bodies are still intact, and the Arilou also exist.  

Since the Orz say Hyperspace is *heavy* it would lead me to believe that the *below* is more energy as opposed to matter.

Quote
2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?


The Arilou are basically saying that there are forces and creatures that exist that either we, as humans, naturally cannot sense, or from which the Arilou have hid us.  I would think the *Nggn* are the former; we cannot sense the *Nngn* and do not have the ability to "catch" them by our physical means.

The Arilou alluded to this many times, saying that "[we] don't want to be seen" and the like, and the Melnorme also allude to this by mentioning Keel-Vereenzy vessels or something similar.  The *Nggn* are no different.

Quote

3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?


Off-hand?  Sorry! Cheesy  Others have done this, though -- kudos to all of you. Wink

Quote

4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?


The Orz are most likely a psychic being from another dimension.  Everything the Orz says alludes to a single identity, and the Arilou also support that idea.  

The Androsynth were "pulled" into the psychic dimension once they opened a portal into their dimension through IDF practices.

The Androsynth were all probably pulled because they were clones.  The humans could not be seen because Androsynth and Humans do not have the same genetic make-up; all Androsynth do, however.  It wouldn't be too hard to pull them all in once one was discovered.

The Human who was "seen" in Vulpeculae suffered from wounds all over his body that became increasingly worse.  He was "seen" but all of humanity was not -- the genetic construct is different.

Either the attack is psychic -- creating some sort of horrendous "placebo-effect-gone-wrong" or it is from an invisible, metaphysical Orz assailer.  <shrug>

To relate to SC3: the same happened to the Supox; all of the colony Supox were taken by the Orz, but the Arilou clearly tell you that all other Supox -- in the Lyrae stars -- are fine.  This shows that the Androsynth were clearly a special case and why NONE exist.  Even some Shofixti survived in extreme cases, like Tanaka, when thought extinct.  There are no reported Androsynth.

Quote
5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?


Most likely that the Taalo's inherent psonic-resistance abilities -- that made them the target of the Dynarri since the Taalo could not be controlled -- are doing the similar to the Orz, either because they are alive and countering the Orz in psychic *below* or through vicarious means such as the Taalo Shield interfering with the Orz IDF portal(s) into *below.*  Take your pick.

Quote

6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?


The Arilou probably prevented the Orz from entering Hyperspace, as well as from recognizing and taking *campers.*  The Androsynth problem could not be avoided as they were a clone race without reproductive abilities; hence, no genetic diversity.

Quote

7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?


Ghosts and poltergeists have to do with energy -- includiong psonic energy -- which the Orz and Arilou possess.  The Pkunk do have psychic abilities, but theirs is more of a clairvoyance as opposed to the former species' control or dominance.

The rest I explained above.

---

Those are just my ideas!  Take care!

-Ben
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #203 on: February 08, 2003, 10:30:31 pm »

Quote

The Human who was "seen" in Vulpeculae suffered from wounds all over his body that became increasingly worse.  He was "seen" but all of humanity was not -- the genetic construct is different.


From what the Arilou tell you, you could conclude that the Orz are some kind of parasites. It would fit their ship's secondary attack (GO! GO!) as well!

There are parasites. Creatures who dwell Beyond.
They have names, but you do not know them. They would like to find you
but they are blind to your presence... unless you show yourselves.
The Androsynth showed themselves, and something noticed them.
There are no more Androsynth now. Only Orz.


BTW, did you ever wonder how did the Orz evolve? I mean, with those fins it'd be pretty hard to invent the wheel  Wink
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #204 on: February 10, 2003, 01:48:45 pm »

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The Androsynth were "pulled" into the psychic dimension once they opened a portal into their dimension through IDF practices.

The Androsynth were all probably pulled because they were clones.  The humans could not be seen because Androsynth and Humans do not have the same genetic make-up; all Androsynth do, however.  It wouldn't be too hard to pull them all in once one was discovered.

The Human who was "seen" in Vulpeculae suffered from wounds all over his body that became increasingly worse.  He was "seen" but all of humanity was not -- the genetic construct is different.
Good idea. I haven't thought of this (yet).
This leads to more knowledge about *smell*s. Even a small change in the DNA construct seems to change our smell sufficiently to become unnoticed.

Apparently talking to Orz through the screen, and not from face to face, makes it difficult for Orz to smell me (the captain) and *pull* me. Lucky me!

What happens if Orz *smelled* some humans and notices the fine differences, and learns how to predict the differences and thus *smell* in advance?
Humanity is doomed!

Well, bye for now.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #205 on: February 10, 2003, 07:15:28 pm »

You are forgetting the Orz "invaded" the Earth orbital station when they allied with you, and commander Hayes tell you fish-like aliens are moving around in mechanical suits blah blah blah..

I think this *smell*ing thingy is not necessarily done by physical contact, perhaps some psychic connection - that could explain the ghosts/poltergeists..

It's like, "if you wouldn't believe in fairies you won't be able to see them", so once you "believe" in the Others (or however the Arilou call them) - then you can "see" them - and they can see you too.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2003, 07:16:41 pm by Censored » Logged

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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #206 on: February 10, 2003, 07:30:50 pm »

Quote
You are forgetting the Orz "invaded" the Earth orbital station when they allied with you, and commander Hayes tell you fish-like aliens are moving around in mechanical suits blah blah blah..

You are right, [Censored]. I forgot about them.
A... Okay, nothing more to say for now
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #207 on: February 04, 2004, 01:53:23 am »

In the hope that people will keep it all togeather and post in this thread instead of Slyendro's....   BUMP!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 01:54:04 am by Orz_Brain » Logged

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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #208 on: February 04, 2004, 05:12:22 am »

Actually, all they'll have to do is read this entire thing and know...well, as much as we know about the whole ordeal.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #209 on: February 04, 2004, 05:20:59 am »

Yes, and now everyone will agree on the subject (for the most part anyway.)!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 05:21:27 am by FalconMWC » Logged
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