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Author Topic: Scale  (Read 35688 times)
Arne
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Re: Scale
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2005, 11:28:24 pm »

Crew pod:

12*32*24 box = 9216 sq.px.

5r sphere 4h fill = 184 sq.px

Total: 9400 sq.px

Ship length : 225 px


This gives each crew 188 sq.px.


When I looked at various military ships earlier I got a figure of 100 sq.m. per crew. This is not free space, just density of crew inside the hull volume.

Let's assume the crew quarters are just beds, a small personal space, recreation and hydroponics. There's no engine/power room, and there's no weapon systems taking up space like on a warship. The primary purpose if the crew pod is storing crew.


If the ship is about 140 meters like someone suggested, there's one crew per 40 sq.m. (crew pod is 2000 sq.m.) which I think is quite reasonable. I think it could be less even.

If almost half of the space is walls, bulkheads, hydroponics etc then each crew got a 4*3 meter room of space, 2m to the roof. Lets make half of it a corridor (stuff need to connect), so maybe 2*3 meter of personal space. They might share rooms though and use the extra space for larger recreational areas.

Edit: Gah! Mixed up radius and diameter. Anyways, For the 140m version the crew pods would actually be:

7.5 * 15 * 20 box = 2250 sq.m.

3r sphere 40% fill 14 sq.m.

/ 50 = 45 sq.m. per crew



EDIT That's CUBIC meter I meant... not square area... Gakk!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 04:29:56 am by Arne » Logged
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Re: Scale
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2005, 12:07:11 am »

It seems unlikely to me that a starbase is just a crew warehouse.
The commander says "Ur-Quan slave law requires that we maintain an orbital space platform to assist Hierarchy vessels which are in need of repairs or fuel."
If that's the main purpose of the station, then you can expect that every of those 2000 crew members has some kind of job for which even more space is required. There will be labs, administration centres, a fuel refinery, ship parts storage, and workshops. And ofcourse there's the ship yard.
It seems to me that crew quarters take just a small fragment of the whole.
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Re: Scale
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2005, 12:20:43 am »

Personally, I'd make the Syreen & Urquan ships a little bigger.  They both need room for at least 41 Thraadash/Ilwrath/other big races.  The Dreadnaught also must hold 41 fighters, which hold 1 crew each.

The Starbase needs to be much larger, as its stores can hold enough material to make innumerable ships.  I don't know how far away the Mark I is from the windows in the Commander screens, but this massive ship seems kinda dinky.   Since the Ur-Quan made the Starbase to repair/refuel hierarchy vessals, I'd think they'd make it large enough to support a small fleet all at once...  Oh, and doesn't the central area just below the windowed hemisphere (the light blue strip) sort of look like a landing area for shuttle craft?



Hmm, the Scout; barely seems large enough for 6 furballs, let alone 5 furballs and a human.  Even the Earthling ship seems a little small for just under 20 humans.  The Terminator's a little stuffy considering that Yehat are bigger than humans and will probably need to stretch their wings once in a while.


I'd say the best option we have is giving the scale as we see it in Melee.  Sure, it's so incredibly off (18 humans in a ships that's 1/8 the size of a planet?) as to be a joke, but a big part of SC is about spoofing other Sci-Fi.  
Or... maybe ignore melee and the planet, and create a scale for the Mark I from the slides as Death_999 suggests, then base the other scales from the shipyard or the side panel (fleet).  This way, the ships are big enough that silly questions of "will alien X fit in ship Y" don't occur, and they're small enough that they don't fall into the "aircraft carrier" syndrome of so many Sci-Fi series.

Under the Yehat, are those planet lander prototypes?

If you're looking at the crewpod for the scale of the Mark I, don't forget the  module image that has a cross-section:
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 12:32:44 am by Culture20 » Logged
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Re: Scale
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2005, 01:26:16 am »

That is one of the images I used in my scale calculations.

Also, Arne, there is NO WAY each crew member on a submarine has 100m^2. Perhaps 100 m^3, which cuts that in half (floor space -> volume)
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Re: Scale
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2005, 03:29:25 am »

Cult> Yeah I made some scout variants, like the arrowed one better.

I'd like to think that the space station is a habitat. You don't need to store materials in a pressurized room temperature enviroment, seems like a waste of space. The shipyards could be scaffolds that float around in space.

The scout can hold 6 crew, but I could scale it up to 15 meter, cuz the sprite not that small.

Meep> Did humans made the starbase or not? I need to know cuz I'm using parts from the androsynth ships on it, for consistancy. The androsynth ships are human space stations/labs I think. THe Starbase looks like it was built by humans, otherwise it would be green right?


Death> I forgot about the beam that goes through the module! And yeah I'm talking cubic meter of course, sorry! That's what I used for my calculations anyways.


With this layout I get 48 rooms, and I got a large free space in the center and the bottom, plus the park/dome.




This is using the 140m figure.

In melee the Mark 1 is much bigger than the other ships, so I think my other scales are correct aswell. This is 100 years into the future so life support and stuff can probably be made pretty compact.


The main problem I have with big scales is that the ships are pretty dogfighty, and have so few weapon systems, that mostly fire forward, just like on fighters. Structural integrity is an issue at larger sizes too. The precursor ship can be made big cuz it's built with special tech I'm guessing.


Edit, when calculating from the intro image, which has <20 human-like silhouettes on it, I get a figure of just over 30 meters high, which would make it over 200-220 meter, or nearly 1px per meter on the module screen of it. There seem to be a joint to the beam connection though, so maybe it can set the height when it lands, so it could possibly be shorter or longer.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 04:00:00 am by Arne » Logged
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Re: Scale
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2005, 04:19:34 am »

Quote
I'd like to think that the space station is a habitat. You don't need to store materials in a pressurized room temperature enviroment, seems like a waste of space. The shipyards could be scaffolds that float around in space.

Working with materials would be a lot easier indoors. And the Starbase image doesn't show any loose hanging materials.

Quote
Meep> Did humans made the starbase or not? I need to know cuz I'm using parts from the androsynth ships on it, for consistancy. The androsynth ships are human space stations/labs I think. THe Starbase looks like it was built by humans, otherwise it would be green right?

I don't think Ur-Quan have a pattent on green. But I don't know who built it.
The manual does say it is "huge" though, whatever that means.

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Re: Scale
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2005, 04:42:40 am »

Maybe humans built it with some help of the Ur-Quan. Does Syreen have one?

I'm not super on perspective, but:



I think L = H*(1.77) (distance to landing feet) I made an error with the bracket, it should extend 3 grids!

P is a person, 5 px high. The smaller one on the left may be kids.

This makes it X meters. I KEEP EDITING THIS NUMBER CUZ I SUCK AT MATH. So far I got 370, 245 and 140.
Edit: H = 33.25, L = 58.85, Length=274.6 ?



They could assemble parts in the starbase, puzzle larger finished parts together outside, like the ISS.

I don't think the shipyard is realistic, since you can buildt like a fleet in less than 2 minutes.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 04:56:41 am by Arne » Logged
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Re: Scale
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2005, 05:27:14 am »

yes the syreen have one that looks the same(so it would be ur-quan)
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Re: Scale
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2005, 06:37:45 am »

Scout interiors. Like a Hobbit house I guess. Made 2 floors. They probably like to sit on the explosives so I put it in the front. It's hard to use that part of a wedge anyways. Likewise, fuel goes in the wings.

It's a bit crammed, but I think it works. It isn't exactly a luxery cruiser.

Crew tasks could be, Pilot (captain), Second pilot, Engineer, Detonation expert, Navigator & Sensor supervisor,  Life support systems supervisor / Medic.



Found this on google, Rawk!
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Re: Scale
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2005, 08:32:27 am »

Quote

Working with materials would be a lot easier indoors. And the Starbase image doesn't show any loose hanging materials.

I don't think Ur-Quan have a pattent on green. But I don't know who built it.
The manual does say it is "huge" though, whatever that means.



No, there's no reason that it should be a universal rule that Ur-Quan-made stuff is green. The Starbase was almost certainly built by the Ur-Quan -- in the process of conquering Earth they had to destroy all of Earth's space capability, remember
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Re: Scale
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2005, 09:01:39 am »

- Perhaps the Star Base never posed any threat and was therefor kept around for use after the war
- Perhaps this Starbase survived long enough for the Humans to capitulate
- Perhaps the Ur-Quan ordered the Humans to build one
- Perhaps the Star Base was towed in from elsewhere
- Perhaps the Ur-Quan had one of their slave races construct it
- Perhaps the Ur-Quan built it from Human materials (there may have been hundreds of destroyed Space Stations floatiing around)

"Almost certainly" my yellow Yehat arse.

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Re: Scale
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2005, 09:23:43 am »

Who got owned first by Ur-Quan? Earth or Syreen? Maybe they got a starbase on a later occasion though, like a spare one from earth.


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Re: Scale
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2005, 10:33:12 am »

The Chenjesu, Syreen, and Earthling starbases are visually the same in the game.  It happens to follow the plans for Alliance starbases from SC1.

Chenjesu were defeated first, then Earth, then Syreen just gave up when the Arilou, Yehat, and Shofixti abandoned them.

Scale issues:  I just realized that Umgah and Shofixti pilots are shown in the SC1 ship images (which should be considered pretty darn official).  Of course, we don't know how big the umgah are.  One would think that since they are called "blobbies" and not "little blobbies" they aren't tiny.


The Scout image puts me to shame;  There's not room for 5 more shofixti, and not even enough room for 1 Human, which means the commander is a liar.  Smiley
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 10:35:07 am by Culture20 » Logged
Arne
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Re: Scale
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2005, 10:38:36 am »

I see.

Aha, I knew I had seen the Umgah in those bulbs somewhere!

My Shofixi ship is enormous compared to that one.



The landars are wierd, not just the mining part that has been discussed earlier, but the landers can also carry a substantial amount of minerals. I think 100-120 per trip? A storage pod is 500?

I doubt 10 landers can be kept inside mark 1, they probably tag along like those fishes do on sharks.

12 crew isn't that much though since they only need to be strapped along the walls like in Aliens / Starship Troopers.
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Re: Scale
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2005, 10:51:03 am »

Well, I don't have anything to add to the whole starbase discussion. (I'm pathetic)

I just came here to asspat Arne for all the great art. That Shofixti is something else. Reminds me of a mix between Taz and master Splinter from ninja turtles.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 10:52:05 am by funkmunkey » Logged
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