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Topic: Scale (Read 38908 times)
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Death 999
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Re: Scale
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2005, 09:00:42 pm » |
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Arne, the problem with using the height to the base is that the legs are clearly in a different configuration... I worked off of the height of the forward cabin. Admittedly, this poses the problem that we are viewing it at an angle, but this can be adjusted-for trigonometrically (I did not, when doing my numbers).
I'll get on it this thursday, after my exam schedule loosens.
Art: 2-kilometer-long starships are not in any way silly, once the capability of gathering material in space is realized (or alternately having space elevators). I am just observing that the images we have do not support the existence of such ships as combat vessels. Perhaps they are too unmaneuverable to be combat-worthy (with exceptions such as the exceptionally long-ranged Sa-Matra)?
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« Last Edit: April 25, 2005, 09:10:16 pm by Death_999 »
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Lukipela
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Re: Scale
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2005, 09:05:59 pm » |
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Perhaps it might be a good idea to "grade" canon in this instance? Seeing as SC1 has a lot less story (and assumingly planning) behind it, maybe SC2 should be considered canon where the two conflict? After all, SC1 basically just worked as "Big fight between good and evil" with some small background stories worked in for flavour. SC2 on the other took those story elements and used them to build the epic we all love and know. As such, perhaps the Commanders words and ingame events in SC2 (Tanaka having fuel capacity to travel to VUX&Mycon space) and back) should be considered more canon and conclusive than an artists vision of a Shofixti scout in SC1.
...And since that image so drastically contradicts *both* the combat simulation *and* the in-game dialogue, which say, respectively, that Scouts can hold 6 Shofixti and that they *do* have enough functions for a Human to serve on one (and be able to fit inside of one), this is a good reason not to consider the SC1 art all *that* official. Everything from SC1 is less canon than SC2 -- hell, in SC2 they changed the *dates* that the game takes place to 400 years earlier, among other things.
Indeed.
A thing worth taking into consideration is that while hightech compared to us now, one does get the impression that the uplifted Shofixti aren't really all that high tech. The Yehat may have given them the essentials, but it's not impossible that they need significantly more space for their life-support systems and engines than other races in the game. other than that I concur with Art, a vechicle scouting for inhabitable planets needs to make landfall, and definetly needs more than one crewmember.
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What's up doc?
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Arne
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Re: Scale
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2005, 07:21:16 am » |
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I the ships are huge they face the problem of structural integrity when turning or altering course, plus G-forces on the crew unless those are nullified. A way to counter this is to make the ships very slow, which means that with huge ships, the game is taking place in ultrarapid (as in hyperspace).
Death> It does look higher on the intro pic, but if the legs are of constant length, and they're attached on the same place on the 'skiis', then it's... uh the spine that's variable, or it's actually in the same config as later. Edit: Oh wait maybe it can be skewed... Edit: yeah it can, but that would tilt it, swinging the nose and rear up and down.
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« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 07:34:18 am by Arne »
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FalconMWC
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Re: Scale
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2005, 12:24:02 am » |
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Well - as you said - hyperspace might and is probably quite different when it comes to physics. Obviously the Vind-y cannot spin as fast as in UQM else your crew would look like a pancake against the walls.
This could all be fixed by:
A: Making a really strong ship with G-Force dampers that somehow take the acceleration and null it. (if its possible)
B: Set the auto pilot from hyperspace and simply cruise on in from Hyperspace already facing the correct direction - just hope nobody gave you any bad directions.
C: The ships park in truespace - simply let smaller ships come to you or dispatch them yourself. The "mother" ship simply comes from hyperspace - never moves until it returns to hyperspace.
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« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 12:24:37 am by FalconMWC »
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Arne
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Re: Scale
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2005, 07:27:58 am » |
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Crew could be in the center of the ship (wouldn't counter acceleration though). The problem is more that the hull might break from the forces, unless they use some kind of field or mystery alloy.
As for space elevators, Edit: Well, possible in theory maybe, but in practice they would be very difficult to build.
It's probably better to use small moons and asteroids for material. once you have construction capabilities in space.
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« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 10:33:37 am by Arne »
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FalconMWC
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Re: Scale
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2005, 05:28:47 pm » |
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Even if you put the crew in the center - it would have less, but they would still be flattened against the wall. Besides - then the "center" of the ship most be huge to house alll those people's living quarters. That and the fact that everything not strapped down would risk quite a bang.
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Death 999
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Re: Scale
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2005, 08:25:54 pm » |
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As for space elevators, Edit: Well, possible in theory maybe, but in practice they would be very difficult to build.
The main technical issues for a beanstalk are making carbon nanotubes stick to each other, and building a climber. Current guesses are that the second challenge is the harder one.
A rotavator design bypasses the climber challenge, and incidentally requires only 200 km of cord, not 300,000 km of cord. And it's generally more useful. I bet we can make a rotavator in 30 years. So, by SC time it should be a piece of cake.
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Arne
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Re: Scale
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2005, 06:12:36 pm » |
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Orion looks interesting. I'm gonna add one of those rockets for my SC project (probably a derelict CCP one from the 1950's). Seems they're about 40-60 meters tall.
I think they're actually building mini nukes for the Cruiser, since earth is slave shielded and the starbase probably was searched by the Ur-Quan.
Edit: This might be of intrest
Some old SC stuff (webarchive'd)
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« Last Edit: April 28, 2005, 06:22:59 pm by Arne »
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Bobucles
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Re: Scale
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2005, 06:28:47 pm » |
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2KM ships? Sure, if you have a bajillion RUs just for fuel you could do that. Big ships take big resources to run, and big resources to make. No one seems to have those kind of resources to burn in Ur-Quan.
I'd say the best ship to get a sense of scale is the flagship. Figure out the size of the modules, and you figure out the size of the ship. I'll assume each module is about 15M long x 50M wide x 40M tall. That seems like more than enough space to fit anything in. 6-8 Stories tall, with room for adequate space on two sides of a hallway, and bulkheads. There are 16 modules, so that means the module section is about 240M long. Add on the bridge and rear portion, and 300M seems like a good possible estimate. The ship may be bigger or smaller, depending on how large you see the ship modules.
As you can see, that's a far cry from a 2KM behemoth. In light of that, the captain comments on the huge size of the flagship, and how both the base and the ship need to be retrofitted to be able to use the shipyard. So the starport was obviously not designed to handle such large ships, and the starport was retrofitted for the Ur-Quan. So the Ur-Quan don't have such large ships either. The Ur-Quan are known to have the largest warships of them all, so all the other ships must be much, much smaller by comparison.
Don't forget the fuel costs for the flagship are insane! The captain himself commented that your fuel needs are so large, that you have to supply your own fuel from offworld resources. You can easily stripmine a few systems just to get the fuel needed for your ship. All the other ships have negligable fuel costs by comparison. A nice consolation, is because your flagship makes a hyperspace signature so large, it can also carry 12 other ships in tow free of charge.
The only ship that could come close to 2KM would be the Sa-Matra. That can't be classified as a warship, though, at least not for the Ur-Quan who dug it up. It's a flagship, the only one of its kind, made to be invincible, to inspire fear into the enemy, to do everything that a warship can't, and to be the cornerstone of the entire fleet. Think of a mobile space station and Godzilla all wrapped into one.
Besides, if you can build two flagships, why not just make a single bigger one? Or maybe build 40 warships instead. Admit it, you can wage war with 40 warships alot better than you could ever do with one flagship.
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Deus Siddis
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Kick Ass.
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2005, 08:13:31 pm » |
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Jesus! I never knew that propulsion system was so far along. Gigantic space battleships, here we come!
Only thing is Nasa won't stop talking about their new Ion thrusters. Those things are for moving 5 pound satellites, damnit. They won't even put much into plasma thrusters.
I never knew we had the prospect of building things on that scale in the near future, but the fact remains that nobody is going to be motivated enough to do it.
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michael
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Re: Scale
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2005, 11:25:24 pm » |
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"Think of a mobile space station and Godzilla all wrapped into one. " you mean it's flying, green, clay and a B movie?!!
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Arne
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Re: Scale
« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2005, 05:23:53 am » |
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I think I showed that the crew modules only need to be 7.5meters (Crewpod and cabin). This makes the ship 140m.
I think my cabins are very luxurious and roomy. StarTrek excepted, you don't give crew more space than they need. Why do that when you can either squeeze in more crew or more weapons (probably the latter)?
Speaking for big ships however, is armour. A 2km ship could have so effective defences that 40 smaller ships simply can't damage it. Remember what happened to WW2 tanks. Same thing happened to armour and swords, until the crossbow / concentrated explosives came that is...
Some ships have invulnerable forcefields though, and a larger version would probably draw more power and thus have similar operation times? Here a small ship might be as good, defence wise atleast.
The advantage with 40 ships of course, is that they can be at 40 places at the same time. "Don't put all your eggs in one basket."
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Deus Siddis
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Speak for yourself, I want my ship to have 2000 sq. ft. of Captain's quarters, an indoor pool, garden and enough closet room for beezer's beany baby collection. Just strap the nukes to the hull.
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