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Topic: TW-ligt plot (Read 44144 times)
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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Deus: Stop. Now.
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Deus Siddis
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What? I don't see the point in saying one language is better than the others, when there are so many flawed ones out there. English is a half assed composite of three languages latin/french/anglo-saxon, all the romance languages make you give a gender to everything (too confusing), hebrew/french require you to make noises which hurt the back of your throat after a while and cannot be yelled very clearly, etc.
I do believe that there is a perfect language out there. It is clear, has one word for each one thing, can describe a number of abstract concepts, and can deliver a full range of emotions.
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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"Too many disgusting throaty noises" is very far from a reasoned discourse on the linguistic adequacies or lack thereof of a language.
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Deus Siddis
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That sounds stuffy, I like to lead in with a joke. Everyone here likes to take pot shots at other countries and stuff, and I think it's funny. If we all took ourselves less seriously, maybe things would go smoother around these forums.
Besides, I've attacked french, english, and other languages with my sarcasm before and no one ever got upset.
P.S. I meant to say something like "gross" not "disgusting". I looked up the definition on my dictionary when I got home, disgusting was way to strong and in the wrong direction.
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 12:10:05 am by Deus_Siddis »
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GeomanNL
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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Bad timing, but he didn't say much wrong, imo.
I liked reading this thread, I think much of it was exaggerated, but it has some useful stuff in it and I agree with several things in there. Maybe some of it can come in handy for my own project.
One of the most important aspects is missed, though: the people in a project. Those can make it, or break it, and the rules you propose can only prevent this to some extent (which doesn't mean they're not useful). People, that's something you have little control over, on the long run. Cause, what happens to a (small) project (with little momentum), when the person(s) who started it leave? Does it continue? Or not? Does it produce something decent ? That's not up to the rules that were set, but up to the people who are involved in it.
I think sc2 is actually a good example of this.
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 12:12:14 am by GeomanNL »
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Deus Siddis
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"he didn't say much wrong, imo."
On the contrary, I'm not sure if I've ever said anything right.
"One of the most important aspects is missed, though: the people in a project."
Not by me, I didn't mention people because it's assumed that the more skilled your team, the better the product/timeframe.
"what happens to a (small) project (with little momentum), when the person(s) who started it leave? Does it continue?"
I Really hope so.
"That's not up to the rules that were set, but up to the people who are involved in it."
I would try and create a core team of professionals and highly motivated workers. Note that "professionals" means people who are in the business of programming/art/music/etc., not people who are being paid by your project.
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 12:24:09 am by Deus_Siddis »
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Art
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D_S: Just for the record (and OT), it's always struck me as rather pointless to bicker about whether one language is "better" or another, or even, really, to make jokes about it -- study enough languages, even superficially, and you soon see that every language has its own foibles and its own kinds of complexity that seem unnecessary to non-native speakers, and that that kind of thing may be necessary to the evolution of a natural language, and any attempt to "objectively" describe whether one language is more logical than another or easier to learn than another or simpler than another just ends up showing the person's own biases as a native speaker of their own language. And every time someone's tried to invent a "sensible" constructed language that simplifies things about a natural language it's met with a resounding failure to catch on.
FWIW *every* language is "clear" to someone who speaks it. And having "one word for one thing" is directly counter to being able to "describe abstract concepts and a full range of emotions".
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Art
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Also: I'd rather people take themselves too seriously than make juvenile and insulting jokes. (Sure, I understand you probably didn't mean to actually slam Hebrew speakers, but... c'mon. Even if you'd said some other word instead of "disgusting" -- "gross" isn't much better, BTW -- that's still a pretty inflammatory comment to make.)
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Lukipela
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You know UAF, you would have saved yourself a lot of trouble if you had been as specific from the beginning as you were in your last few posts. When I started reading through the thread I had the distinct impression that you wanted overall feedback on the game. But you don't. You're simply trying to recruite people to help flesh out the plot, which means you only want people who like the plot. That's not feedback.
Not having a copy or either MS Word or Powerpoint at my disposal, I'm afraid I can't give you feedback (which you don't seem to want anyway). As soon as I manage that though, I'll be happy to see if my meager writing abilites can be applied to it, reading through the comments here, some of the plot does seem interesting. I'll contact you if/when this arises though.
Other than that, good luck with your project. Even with the (at times) fiery discussions/criticisms that have rained down here, from a few participants at least, it is VERY nice to see anything associated to TimeWarp actually make progress. People may come to like or loathe the end product, but at least something substantial will come out of it.
Oh, and regarding languages... Without trying to promote my second language, I'd have to say finnish is one of the most logical languages I've run across. Everything is pronounced as it's spelled, you NEVER have to worry about feminine or masculine words (literally, there's only one word for he/she) and with very few exceptions everything is regular. The disadvantage would be that words can become really long sometimes...
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« Last Edit: May 11, 2005, 02:11:24 am by Lukipela »
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What's up doc?
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Chrispy
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Just to add a point, in this perfect language where theres only one word for everything, how do you suggest we have poetry... or style... or anything beond comprehension. Yes english is a combination of many languages. Its hard to learn I'm sure, but its deep, its lush, and its very artsy. I like having language like that.
But, that doesnt have anything to do with Timewarp Lite, so.. carry on..
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Deus Siddis
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I never found english to even be a good language and I was raised with it. I wasn't trying to be inflammatory, I've just heard people try and hype languanges like french, but it sounds a little like gargling to me. Like you've got a cold and some mucus lining your throat. I guess when I hear stuff, I just visualize things. Anyhow, "unrefined" was what I was shooting for ("gross" means about the same thing).
Chrispy:
I just put the other factors before poetry. I don't really like how there are too many words for one thing, sometimes you can run into trouble this way (the above is a good example).
Everyone: I think that with my help, this thread has become a major disaster. Sorry.
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UAF
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Lukipela - thanks, and you can either wait for Halleck to finish converting the plot to HTML files, which will also include some minor changes and should get rid of all the horrible and abundant grammar, spelling and other mistakes I put there.
OR you can download OpenOffice (there's a link somewhere at the beginning of the thread) and read the PowerPoint file.
About languages - As the only(?) Hebrew speaker in this thread I'll actually come to Deus defense and say that I did not find his remark about Hebrew disturbing. I know that some other languages sound weird to me.
And BTW Hebrew give Gender to every object too. Sometimes people here aren't sure what it should be so we give it some adjective and see if it's male or female.
As for the perfect language having only one word for every object - now how would you make funny word games in such language? How would you make your feelings more intense, strong, powerful, if you can't use several words with the same/similar meanings.
You loose lots of fun with such a language.
P.S - I hate the word language and can't believe I actually managed to repeatedly write it correctly in this post.
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