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Author Topic: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV  (Read 16122 times)
harth1026
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2005, 08:13:04 pm »

Quote

So... when do you think FUQ Battles Vol 1 will be remade?


If Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV is SC1, what would Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume I be?
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Lukipela
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2005, 08:14:53 pm »

A space battle adventure, but with Gungans and the backstory of how the Ur-Quan turned to the dark side.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 08:15:23 pm by Lukipela » Logged

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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2005, 09:23:22 pm »

That will be how the Ur-Quan defeated the Yuptar, Yuli, and Draal, under the command of the Dnyarri.

Oh, wait. The Dnyarri took them all over, but liked the Ur-Quan best. Then, while they were controlled, had the exterminated.

OK, Volume 1 is the first doctrinal war

Volume 2 is the advance of the Kohr-Ah

Volume 3 is the advance of the Ur-Quan up to the point of the alliance.

Volume 4 is the battle with the AFS
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Culture20
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2005, 05:48:13 am »

Another possibilty:
Volume I:  Ur-Quan battles with their own nature (mostly other Ur-Quan's natures), ending with their exploration & their discovery by the Taalo
Volume II:  Ur-Quan battles with the Dnyarri Empire, ending with the genetic lobotomizing of the Dnyarri
Volume III: First Doctrinal War, ending with the discovery of the Sa-Matra
Volume III.5: A series of some not-very famous battles around the galaxy where the Ur-Quan dominate (not famous because the Ur-Quan are not sufficiently challenged)
Volume IV: another battle like above, only notable because it leads to below
Volume V: The NAFS (or Empire of [font="courier new"]FOO[/font]) destroys the Sa-Matra, and defeat the Ur-Quan
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 05:49:17 am by Culture20 » Logged
harth1026
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2005, 07:22:59 pm »

Vol 1: The Dnyarri Menace
Vol 2: Attack Of The Slaves
Vol 3: Revenge Of The Ur-Quan
Vol 4: A New Hope (SC1)
Vol 5: The Kohr-Ah Strikes Back
Vol 6: Return Of The Precursor (SC2)

I think George Lucas stole the plot and made some movies with it though..
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2005, 12:17:04 pm »

If SC1 is really "Volume 4", then is SC2 Volume 5 or Volume 4, part 2?

With the material we have to work with I think the most natural progression for prequels would be Volume 1 as the initial Dnyarri conquest (spun out here to be a bit more of an event than it seemed to be in SC2), Volume 2 as the Slave Revolt and Volume 3 as the first Doctrinal War. It would, of course, be very dark in tone. (The bad guys win, the good guys beat them, but then turn into bad guys.)
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2005, 12:19:26 pm »

Oh yeah, and this guy:

http://www20.brinkster.com/pariahpress/starcon/main.htm

does some pretty good writeups trying to convince us that the Amstrad CPC and Commodore 64 versions of Star Control should be considered Volumes I and III, respectively. Not sure what he's got to put into Volume II. It might make more sense to let the PC version be III and the Genesis be IV, since the Genesis version does have scenarios that the PC version doesn't.
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2005, 12:20:28 pm »

(Never mind, I think he intends the Spectrum version to be Volume III.)
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2005, 09:55:59 am »

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Pik, you seem to have forgotten SC1's main feature:

SCENARIOS

Scenarios restricted the possible purchases, set balance issues, preset colonies, etc.

Basically, this strategic sim would allow scenarios, so that the game play would be EXACTLY the same as in SC1. The scenario restricts side A to alliance ships, and side B to hierarchy ships, for example. Wham. There you go, Total War, the classic SC1 scenario.

Next scenario: side A has a dreadnought. Side b has a couple colonies, a starbase, and a few Scouts. They can only build scouts. OOh! Extermination!

THE PROPOSAL IS TO USE THE UQM ENGINE TO MAKE A GAME WHICH HAS MULTIPLE SCENARIOS, A SUBSET OF WHICH IS THE SET OF SCENARIOS POSSIBLE IN SC1.


I did mention the scenario mode. But Star Control 1's charm went beyond the scenario mode. Unlike Hyper-Melee, it wasn't just a bunch of 'ships', it was two sides.

The scenario mode worked because there was a war with two sides. If you try to just plop the scenario mode into UQM, you don't get a war, you just get a bunch of ships to assign whatever role you want. This does not mean a scenario mode to uqm would be wonderful (it would), I am simply pointing out that it does not equal Star Control 1.

Imagine when playing Star Control 1's scenario mode you could say, "Hey! I don't like this shofixti ship! I want to replace it with... the Ur-Quan ship!" Star Control 1's scenario mode was locked into two sides for a specific reason. You couldn't play Alliance vs. Alliance, Hierarchy vs. Hierarchy in the scenario mode (that I remember). You couldn't exchange ship designs for your faction. Toys for Bob intentionally designed it that way because Star Control is not about the scenarios, it is about the war! "Isn't that the same?" No. Star Control was about two sides battling it out. Star Control 2 was not about this. This is the fundamental attitude difference between the two games. Scenario mode in UQM would be great fun, but it would not be Star Control 1. Star Control 1 would require two locked sides.

Since Star Control 1's source code is lost, the best way to restore the game would be to use UQM.

My dream would be to one day load up UQM and the menu would read:

-The Ur-Quan War- (SC 1's title sceen and then menu options come up with the practice mode, melee mode, and scenario mode)
-The Ur-Quan Masters- (SC 2's full game. Leads to another menu asking for 'start game' or 'load game')
-Hyper Melee Mode- (SC 2's melee we all know)
-Hyper Scenario Mode- (New and improved scenario mode including SC 2 units)

I think it would be really cool to have Star Control 1, which features the war, as part of the package. Fans could add in new scenarios to 'expand' on the war and all. An ambitious fan could even attempt to put an adventure game within Star Control 1's war.

The Hyper Scenario Mode would include scenarios before, during, and after SC 2. Imagine a scenario of just Thraddash versus Ilwrath! Or Utwig and Supox versus the Black and Green Urquans (but they must avoid destroying the green urquans if possible). Imagine Chmmr and New Alliance ships battling the two Urquans and the remaining thralls (Mycon, Vux, Thraddash?, Ilwrath? Umgah). This mode could be a lot of fun but should let the Star control 1 scenarios remain in the Star Control mode. This way, the games end up being a bit more immersive and feel more like games rather than combat engines to 'pretend-your-own-game'.
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2005, 07:19:37 pm »

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-The Ur-Quan War- (SC 1's title sceen and then menu options come up with the practice mode, melee mode, and scenario mode)


You mean "Famous battles of the Ur-Quan Conflict"Huh

Oh, and yes, sides ARE important with SC1..

..yet I feel custom scenarios, like Yehat vs Yehat, or maybe even Earthling vs Earthling (one of em being pirates or something) should be "allowed"..

Hmmm.. Imagine a ZFP battling a Thradd or Umgah for a planet... Smiley
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2005, 08:16:35 pm »

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Imagine when playing Star Control 1's scenario mode you could say, "Hey! I don't like this shofixti ship! I want to replace it with... the Ur-Quan ship!" Star Control 1's scenario mode was locked into two sides for a specific reason. You couldn't play Alliance vs. Alliance, Hierarchy vs. Hierarchy in the scenario mode (that I remember). You couldn't exchange ship designs for your faction. Toys for Bob intentionally designed it that way because Star Control is not about the scenarios, it is about the war! "Isn't that the same?" No. Star Control was about two sides battling it out. Star Control 2 was not about this. This is the fundamental attitude difference between the two games. Scenario mode in UQM would be great fun, but it would not be Star Control 1. Star Control 1 would require two locked sides.



Hmm...  So your dream is to have a Star Control game with less options and more restrictions.  That type of game is perfect for people who like to be disappointed in their own fantasies.

Unfortunately, there are people that do not share your passion for restrictions as you do.  There are those that like Alliance versus Alliance.  Ur-Quan vs Ur-Quan.  Yehat vs Chenjesu.  If and when the strategy/tactical campaign is put in place (probably not for a long while), the story will still be Alliance vs Heirarchy, but there will be options for Alliance vs Alliance and Heirarchy vs Heirarchy.  If this still bothers you, you do have the source code, you can edit it however you want.
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2005, 08:35:58 pm »

Alternatively, one could move to a communist dictatorship, join a cult, and never worry about having to make these horrible "choices" ever again. Or you could have a friend duct tape you to the wall, and then you won't accidentally choose a ship from the other side of the war. Sadly, you won't be able to choose any ships or play the game at all, for that matter. But, I guess you've gotta make sacrifices in the name of SC1's restrictiveness.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2005, 10:26:05 pm by Deus_Siddis » Logged
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2005, 09:02:19 pm »

Quote


Imagine when playing Star Control 1's scenario mode you could say, "Hey! I don't like this shofixti ship! I want to replace it with... the Ur-Quan ship!" Star Control 1's scenario mode was locked into two sides for a specific reason. You couldn't play Alliance vs. Alliance, Hierarchy vs. Hierarchy in the scenario mode (that I remember). You couldn't exchange ship designs for your faction. Toys for Bob intentionally designed it that way because Star Control is not about the scenarios, it is about the war! "Isn't that the same?" No. Star Control was about two sides battling it out. Star Control 2 was not about this. This is the fundamental attitude difference between the two games. Scenario mode in UQM would be great fun, but it would not be Star Control 1. Star Control 1 would require two locked sides.


Couldn't you just have an option to lock the scenarios, or just have them locked permanently? Most new scenarios would probably be restricted somehow as well (Ilwrath wouldn't be able to buy Pkunk ships in their Ilwrath-Thraddash campaign/scenario). There is no need to remake SC1 just for that. Alternatively, you could always choose not to utilize the new ships.

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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2005, 09:56:04 am »

Quote

I did mention the scenario mode. But Star Control 1's charm went beyond the scenario mode. Unlike Hyper-Melee, it wasn't just a bunch of 'ships', it was two sides.

The scenario mode worked because there was a war with two sides. If you try to just plop the scenario mode into UQM, you don't get a war, you just get a bunch of ships to assign whatever role you want. This does not mean a scenario mode to uqm would be wonderful (it would), I am simply pointing out that it does not equal Star Control 1.
...

Sc2 super-melee can function very closely to sc1 melee. First, enable 3-step melee zooming by launching UQM with this parameter (either from the command line, or by adding it to your uqm shortcut for windows):
Code:
--meleezoom=pc
Then, simply load up the teams "Old Heirarchy Ships" and "Old Alliance Ships". Once you press "Battle!", the game will function very closely to the classic sc1 melee.

Of course, It's not sc1... but it's close enough for my tastes. Personally, I like sc2 style better anyway.
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Re: Famous Ur-Quan Battles Volume IV
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2005, 08:14:55 pm »

Yeah - just load up the old Hierarchy and old Alliance teams, and make a restriction with the person you're playing against that you can't change teams. I think super melee is a lot more fun anyway, because of the customization. SC1's melee didn't really give the feeling of fighting in a war, its scenarios did.

Anyway, I honestly don't think this is going to happen.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2005, 08:16:00 pm by JWJ » Logged
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