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DragonS5
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SC MMORPG
« on: June 27, 2005, 02:34:05 am »

Ive been a huge fan of Star Control since I was 10. I love UM and what the community has done and was appauled when Accolade killed Star Con. Now that TFB has been bought by Activision I think its time for a sequal.... in the form of MMORPG.

Think about it, able to make your own Spathi character and traverse the galaxy. I refused to pay a fee for SWG, WoW, and City of Heroes, but for Star Control I would. In my opinion SC is the most origional space based game out there. The thought of a future upgraded version of the game gives me chills.

what do you guys think?

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harth1026
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2005, 02:00:15 am »

I don't know, I kinda like the idea of a new future upgraded version of Star Control.  MMORPGs give me chills.
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2005, 07:53:58 pm »

It would have to be significantly different then star control is now. As it is, star control really is based around melee, which is a 2 d space arena battle, and a RPG would be completely different. But, since the star control universe is so cool, it could work.

So, if this does happen, I would like to see it strongly based on the star control universe, but very seperate from existing star control gameplay.
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DragonS5
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2005, 08:42:27 pm »

I agree. I thought about a pre-equal but there just isnt enough room in the story line for it. I also think any future game... 3D/MMORPG etc... should move away from melee since it is more of a 2D game thing.

I think if TfB had done SC3 it would have been a fantastic game. I actually like the planet sides better than in SC2. but back to the MMORPG

RPG's have grinding in them and I think that SC has the ability to have that integrated.

- Instead of gold there are RU's
- Ability to travel the galaxy killing monsters and bad guys and getting drops. Some drops being pecious chemicals (from SC2)
- NO Rainbow worlds
- Ability to be any of the main SC races
- Space Combat
- Killer new space species and ships
- Bring back all the species that have been wiped out in SC2 and SC3
- Finally set to rest the mystery of the Orz
- Precursor ships and artifacts randomly spread out
- Ability to pilot a ship and control a fleet
- Cities that incorporate each race's uniqueness
- Can you say BLACK SPATHI
- PVP and SVS (Ship vs Ship)

I would also like to see the game focus more on the story line and the relationship between the races and less on grinding. Players would be immersed in a world of science and oddities. Where the Spathi and Ur-Quan live in harmony... .sort of.

I can try and come up with a good storyline for the game to follow. Either way i want a damn updated sequal to this game and ive been craving it for like 6 years now... someone better feed my craving.
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2005, 10:18:53 pm »

Regardless if a Star Control sequel is online or offline, the gameplay must be fantastic to be a success.  Any game can offer a ton of playable races, cool items, and an interesting story, but it's the actually gameplay that makes the game successful.  In Star Control's case, the melee combat is its strength and must be made superb.  Any new version mush have excellent ship controls, but still maintaining the feel of SC is ncessary.  Possibly the best match for a Star Control-style 3D space combat engine that I can think of would be Freelancer.  Check it out when you get the chance.
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2005, 09:35:24 am »

That would be an awesome idea.  But think of how gigantic it would be, especially if they hand-crafted every city.  I mean, WoW is just one planet, but dozens of colonized planets?  Each with lots of cities?  It would just be ridiculous.

I say start with a few races, like three.  Maybe Earthling (where your missions would be to maintain the starbase or whatever), Arilou (where your missions would be to protect the Earthling settlements and such) and Ur-Quan/Kohr-Ah (where your missions would be confining/destroying human uprisings).  Or maybe three completely unrelated races.  Like Yehat, Supox, Spathi.  Then add more year after year, or with expansions, or what have you.

There also would have to be a marvellous gameplay system.  Unique like.  

Or... we could take the title of this thread the other way and discuss... that's right... a StarCraft MMORPG!
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2005, 01:51:41 pm »

Heh..

I talked about this on IRC a few days ago... Basically my ideas went something like this:

-Solar systems are 20x the size they are now
-Everything is handled somewhat like Aftermath: no more jumpy screens, just battle in the same screen you fly to other planets...
-Each race (you play as a race, not for yourself!!!) must feed itself with minerals, pilots, etc...
-To do that, you must mine planets/asteroids (!). Since there are a whole lot of asteroids to mine, and plentyful of minerals on planets (yay for drilling techniques!), running out of minerals in the universe will probably not really happen.. Smiley
-Each mineral you bring in, belongs to your race, not to yourself. Ofcourse, you get some credits which you can spend on your ship (patching up holes, configurating your ship, like adding a thruster that lets you move a tiny bit faster)
-When you die, you get assigned a new PILOT (!), and you'll lose around 75% (or maybe less) of your credits and stats (kills, etc)..
-Ofcourse, when you die you still have to wait for a new ship to be built.. In line with other players, yes.. Players with better stats get assigned a ship earlier than others that do nothing. Ofcourse, your stats get divided by the time you play here. If someone played for 1 day and brought in 9999999 RU, and someone else played for 1 month and brought in the same ammount of RU, he would actually get a ship LATER than the 1-day person, provided they died the same second. Insert some other wicked formulas here, and you've got yourself a waiting queue!
-Hyperspace battles also accur.. Same way as in SC2, but this time, whole forces can battle.. And people can join in... If there's a "battle in hyperspace", the hyperspace bulb will flash from blue to yellow, once in a while... Stand ready to join the fight.. Smiley
-Game plays just after the Sa-Matra got destroyed.. Ur-Quan forces are held back, and negotiations about "what happens now" are starting.
-Each race has their own diplomatic system. Ur-Quan base their leader on kills, Earthlings get chosen. Yehat have a system based on courage, and the clan you're in.
-Leaders of each race, are Player Controlled! This means that, once someone is a leader of a race, he/she practically has control over that empire. Note that some races have a shared leadership, or a leadership where people "below" the leader are able to kill off the leader's ideas...
-That also means, that the universe is fully under control of the players. And it also means, that attacks can and WILL be coordinated.. Just imagine raiding a base with 100 others..
-The ultimate goal? To have some fun.. Smiley Hey, it's a MMORPG.. MMORPGs usually don't have any goals, except for "being the best"... hm... okay. Maybe the ultimate goal, is to pursue your race's goals.. Yeah... If you're Ur-Quan, that'd probably involve red shields, and a lot of fusion blasts... Smiley

There might be something else I'm forgetting, but meh..

Oh, might be worth a mention that you can (and will) join squads... You know... A team of pilots that fight together? And ofcourse, those "squads" can be "directed" by one leader or another.. So you can be sent out to do some dirty alien butt-kicking job....

Might also mention, that the whole universe will practically sustain itself. Ofcourse, everyone might join the Ur-Quans, but that'd mean HUUUUUGE waiting lists for ships... Better join the el-cheapo Shofixti then! Smiley
The only problem I forsee, is people not willing to play, say, VUX.. Or maybe (but probably not) ZFP... You know.. These guys that have not-so-great ships and that aren't really fun to talk to in SC2.. VUX probably being the nr 1 of those... I can imagine people playing Umgah just for the fun of it....

Oh, yeah, also forgot to mention that there'll be a lot of space stations, and colonies on planets. Hell, you might even be able to help BUILD those.. By supplying building bricks, etc... Ofcourse, a LOT of colonies will look just.. well.. the same as any other... Smiley

(Anyone care for rebuilding Ceres Base?)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 01:59:27 pm by Megagun » Logged
DragonS5
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2005, 04:33:24 pm »

I was talking to some buddies playing CS:Source when it hit me. What if someone made a complete mod like CS or the Paintball Mod for CoD ( www.breaking50mod.com ) that used SC characters, custom maps, and custom weapons. Sure there wouldnt be any ship v ship combat. Just species whooping each other up.

Back to the MMORPG though. The Star Systems don't neccessarily need to be bigger, just fuller. I remember a lot of Star Systems that were just dead and nothing was there at all.. what a waste of fuel. I think astronomy has made huge strides in the last 15 years and that the game should encompass some of the new discoveries in our galaxy... what about roaming pulsars? mmmm radiation.

I like the idea of resources going to a race. But your right people might start picking one race. In that case developers need to be able to beef up the underpicked races and send them off to attack or horde resources. Also great care should be taken to make all races as even as possible. No more EXTREMELY one side 1v1 ship battles. You should also allow the pilots to allocate the minerals and resources they collect how they see fit, but provide some benefit for giving the race their fair share. Like when the pilot comes into dock and meets the resource buyer guy (like that name?) the guy will suggest an amount of his current resources to go to the race. This will be larger in over-populated races and smaller in under-populated races (see how that provides balance). If the pilot refuses to unload the suggested amount it should count against him in some way. Like say three times in a certain time frame and the race puts a bounty out on him. Also the pilots will be "selling" the minerals for a going rate based on galactic demand and in return be given "Resource Units"

Dieing and losing stats? not cool. I agree a death penalty is needed, but that is harsh. Having to wait for a ship and bumming rides is punishment enough. Too much punishment and players won't come back.

Quote
-Leaders of each race, are Player Controlled! This means that, once someone is a leader of a race, he/she practically has control over that empire. Note that some races have a shared leadership, or a leadership where people "below" the leader are able to kill off the leader's ideas...  

bad idea. That would rock for like a 20 person RPG.. but in MMO with limited races this will provide some extreme balance issues.

Of course a diplomatic and social engine will be needed.

I like the idea of coordinated attacks. Instead of gamers controling the race's leader how about the gamers influence alliances etc... Say for instance Players of the Spathi are constantly running resource raids on a ZFT base. this would hurt relations and inevitably hurl them into a war with each other.

The battle signal is another good idea. Players of a race and that races allies should get the signal. Provide some lag though. Such as if your on the otherside of the galaxy mining asteroids then it would take you longer to know about the battle than aguy who is about 20 parsecs away.

I dont particularly enjoy the idea of having to do what my race tells me. I mean do we always follow the law here? how making some different classes and professions under the classes. Sort of like Good (do what the race wants), Neautral (do your own thing but not upsetting the balance), Bad (piss on the race im out to take care of #1 or get them all enslaved)

Professions could include; Bounty Hunter, Medic, Miner, Fighter Pilot, Raider, etc...

There could be neutral worlds and colonies where all classes could mix. Class can also be changed. For instance if you break the races law you could become an Outlaw (bad) and be sought after. Until the whole thing blows over you might need to hide out somewhere.

while players can be any profession they want, it might be useful for them to select professions that agree with thier class.

Guardian (good):
Fighter Pilot
Medic
Technician
Miner

Neautral:
Bounty Hunter
Fighter Pilot
Miner
Medic

Outlaw (bad):
Raider
Bounty Hunter
Miner
Fighter Pilot
Spy

Using a trade outside of the these could be disasterous and cause your class to change. For instance a Guardian/Raider would end up crossing the line and breaking the law. or an Outlaw medic, can't be too nice. If Gaurdians break the law too much they get sought after, if outlaws are too lawful other outlaws and outlaw outpost might attack them. Neautral is middle of the road all the way.

Each race should have differnt ships to coorespond with the professions. Like a Fighter Pilot can fight and escort a Miner vessel or a space ambulance, but can't fly those ships. I also think the two profession idea is a good one so like a Fighter Pilot/Miner could fly a fighter ship and a mining ship.

All ships should have attack and defense. Fighter ships should start off with less armor and more fire power and miner ships should be slower, but more armored with limited fire ability. Spy and Raider ships should be fast, and moderately armed and armored.

... man im going crazy just thinking about this game.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 05:09:35 pm by DragonS5 » Logged
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 09:59:08 pm »

Quote
... man im going crazy just thinking about this game.

You seem passionate enough about it..  You should unleash your rage by writing up some design documentation, putting a team together, and developing this dream of yours...  
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DragonS5
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2005, 12:50:16 am »

hehe. i wouldnt know the first thing about designing a game. but if I can find a few programmers and a map and character designer im sure I could direct the completeion of a small demo to demonstrate the game to publishers and other developers.
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2005, 07:46:31 pm »

You should check out the following site.
http://www.gamedev.net

It's mostly geared towards programmers but there are articles on that site that discuss general game design and breaking into the industry.  It'll definitely help you reach your goal.
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Re: SC MMORPG
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2005, 01:50:52 pm »

First of all sorry for my english, i'm russian.

SC MMORPG is a great idea! I love SC2 for more then ten years. Passed it 20-30 times. And always wanted a multiplayer to be implemented in SC2.

I with my friends tried to make our own MMORPG, based on "Pirates of Caribbean Seas". The idea was great and many people joined the project. Sad to say we could not find good programmers and artists. So it is buried. But we still have the story-writing team and many-many ideas!
I think our russian team won't help you much due to lack of understanding. So i'll provide only ideas and comments.

Then more i think about perfect MMORPG then more i imagine a game like Ultima Online. Static world with many players, few rare global events, many quests and tournaments, many different ways of develop playing character.
First of all MMORPG is a Massive game, so it must attract and hold great numbers of players. Without them it won't be playable. So these parts are most important:

1. Rich and interesting life. A dozen of ships (or modules) are not enough. Fighting "monsters" and other players are not enough. Harvesting minerals are not enough also. There must be smth more... like having private property (always attract players), many ways to upgrade player's ship(s), character's stats and skills which can be improved. What may be better then buying a part of planet and building a base there? Or training your skills in piloting to get access to large ships (i.e. Ur-Quan Dreadnought)? Or even training your R&D skills to make your own ship(s)? You can even sell ships (or modules) to other players in exchange of RU's or just raw resourses. Or both.
In example: if i have R&D skill at level 1 i can make and upgrade drive for my ship only to level 1. To reach level 2 i have to make many modules. Each produced module will raise my skill by 0.01 level (or just random as in UO). Where to put so many cheap modules if no one want to buy them? Simple. Sell them to NPSs for little money.
So i need much resources, so i need to mine them by myself or buy them from other players.
If i have money but don't want to raise R&D skills i will just ask other players to upgrade my ship.

2. Death must be not annoying. The simpliest way: a character loses his ship and all cargo and teleports to the nearest starbase where he can buy another one.
Destroyed ship becames a ship wreckage which he (or other players) can loot to get some modules and cargo.
Of course if player was attacked and killed by other player the second one will loot the wreckage. But his law status will drop and most bases won't accept him anymore (for a while). So he'll have to sell the loot at places "out-of-law". In example at pirate bases or private bases of other players. In this case player killing won't easy and the game won't look like CounterStrike. :-)

3. There should be no limits. Minerals should respawn from time to time (maybe randomly). When players start crying that "the Galaxy is too overcrowded!" a new galaxy must be added, accessable through Quasi-Space or stationary portals.
"No limits" means continuos loop-like playing process. A well-balanced playing process.

4. Do not add global politics ruled by players. Let the game represent a short moment in StarControl history. In example the moment just after destroying of Sa-Matra. The interest must be in "just living" in this universe, not in global events.
Let the game masters just "correct" the global events sometimes to make the game not very static. And to give players a feeling that they are part of "something great and important".

5. Any player must have ability to buy a private property (own base on a planet) and that place must be the safest place in the galaxy. A base can be built only on a planet which allows it. In example tectonics and weather no more then level 2, temp no more then 100 C.
The rest planet is still accessable by other players but they cannot land at the territory of a private base.
Base may look like some buildings protected by a wall. All of these structures should be placed by owner in the order he wants. In example i buy a hangar, go to place of my choice, put it down. Then i must mine some iron to construct a wall around it (not further then 200 meters from structure). After that no one can land inside this base. Except myself of course.
I have to pay the rent for the territory i owned.
Then i buy another house (in example a living house or storage), dismantle the wall, place another building adjacent to my hangar and place the wall around both structures.
Simple, isn't it? Attractive, isn't it?
Different building will provide different services for the owner or for guests. Even shops may be built. After some time there will be whole cities in the most popular star systems.

But everything will cost RUs and raw resources. And players will mine, harvest, hunt "bad guys", trade... do anything to get those RUs and raw resourses. That's the process of "earning and spending" that will attract players. And that's the "just life" aspect of the game.


I touched not all aspects i wanted. But it's not too easy for me to write in english. I like to read much more. So answer please. :-)
And if my ideas seem interesting to developers i'll gladly help and discuss.
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Virtually yours, Mr.Sad
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