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Topic: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld? (Read 83845 times)
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Deus Siddis
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"*chasing* can be friendly. Perhaps they're just persuing them for an *alliance party*."
Friendly because they look at everything as a game.
"What is this *campers* being "suitable hosts" theory come from? And what do you mean by "host" anyhow?"
A host in this context, is the victim of a parasite. The Orz take over the minds of *campers* and gain some sort of biological benefit from doing so. They also seem to like to play games with their slave *bubbles*, like *dancing*. Whoever said you can't play with your food? Anyway, I think *campers* are potential hosts, and *bubbles* are hosts, presently. *Happy campers* seem to be hosts that are not *jumping in front* or being *silly cows* or *sick fish* by resisting the orz's designs on taking them over.
This would all make sense as a potiental sequel candidate. Since the Orz have *many bubbles*, they won't just attack you with *go-go* fishes in nemeses. They'll have a whole entourage of "bubble thralls", ready to fight every last silly cow, sick fish, human, chenjesu, ur-quan, and lowar that stands, sits, or hangs in their way. *Heavy Space* is now a realm of the orz, or at least it would be if TFB made Starcontrol 3. Thus, this sort of plot would create a new hierarchy replacement, with many different species' ships, and many different abilities/designs, to be matched against the fleet of the new alliance of free stars. Fortunately, the Ur-Quan HATE mind controllers, so you'd get them on your side in addition to the Chenjesu and Chmmr. I'm sure the Orz have a real heavy hitter species of their own (maybe infested precursors!).
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« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 05:45:40 am by Deus_Siddis »
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Elerium
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I've translated most Orz, and I'll say, it's creepy. But don't worry I'm not gonna turn into a Bukowski 
I agree with Deus_Siddis, that theory fits the idea of the Orz perfectly.
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harth1026
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I'm not sure why you guys are trying to interpret the Orz language. It was clear from the first transmission that the system could not accurately translate their language so therefore, there shouldn't be any logical meaning to anything they say. Also, if their words did not sucessfully tranlate into our dimension, it could also be possible that their appearance didn't translate correctly as well. We see cartoon-like crabs on the screen. Their appearance might in reality be more agressive looking to further match their Nemesis ships. In fact, maybe their Nemesis ships didn't translate over properly as well.
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Art
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Just in case you're serious... Captain: Uh.....Hi there. Its good to see you again....I think.
Orz: That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*.
Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke.
Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz.
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*.
My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
but it is really *fingers*. Interpreting "*bubbles*" as anything else than atoms or other elementary particles seems extremely far fetched to me.
Atoms? That's actually a new one on me. If the Orz bodies physically exist it seems clear that they *are* made of atoms, unless you think *fingers* refers to the Orz species completely being some kind of psychic illusion or exotic matter or whatnot, which isn't something I got out of it.
The fact that *bubbles* is contrasted with *fingers* seems pretty clear to me -- the Orz are one with many *fingers*, like single organs of one big organism, meaning they're a collective organism, a hivemind. By contrast we Humans are individuals with no direct connection to each other, walled off from each other by our physical bodies like *bubbles*.
I also don't see a single clue in the game for Orz infecting alien races (perhaps alien society, but not individuals). Which quotes would suggest this according to you?
The Orz looking at everything as a game doesn't have to be true either. Everything with "*game*" and "*dancing*" etc. could actually be just a translation mismatch.
It always seemed to me that the neatest explanation for the Androsynth suddenly vanishing and being replaced by the Orz was that the Androsynth literally became the Orz -- that the Orz hivemind took over Androsynth bodies and then physically transformed them into a form more suitable to it or a form less likely to be recognized or whatever. It's the kind of plot one would get from Lovecraft, which is what all the Bukowski stuff is very, very clearly referencing.
But as far as Orz mind-controlling people Dnyarri-style, I don't see it as their modus operandi, even if they're capable of it. We don't actually see Androsynth mind-controlled by the Orz, and we're explicitly told by the Arilou that the Androsynth as Androsynth no longer exist. I think it'd work thematically better if the Orz must transform things they infest, and if infestation is always a species-wide or society-wide event.
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Megagun
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Hmm.. Interesting theory, Art..
So Orz is one(?) singular creature (think "Overmind"), which "takes over" other species, and.. err.. "transforms" them into Orz?
That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*.
Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke.
Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz.
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*.
My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
but it is really *fingers*.
Maybe you do not even *smell*? That is sad.
*Smelling* *pretty colors* is the best *game*. Let me see...
*funny* = ?
*see* = see, I'd guess... Or feel.. Maybe notice.. Detect...
*light reflections* = something that you can touch. A regular "object"
*many bubbles* = many people. Identities. Like Humans are *many bubbles*
*campers* = non-Orz
*fingers* = Species that are taken-over by Orz. Androsynth is one of them.
*heavy space* = The "space" "above" Quasispace? Or a "space" "below" truespace?
*smell* = *see* non-*light reflections* (*fingers*? *pretty colors*?). Read: something that is not of your own (either *light reflections* or *pretty colors*)? It seems to go either way, judging from http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc2/quotes/orz.txt
*pretty colors* = Something that is not a *light reflection*? (Origin: drugs? Seems likely)
*game* = something to do?
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*. Should translate to something like "I am Orz. I have taken over many species"...
I've always thought -myself- that Bukowski thing was the key to uncovering what happened to the Orz/Androsynth... But since I never read any Lovecraft stuff.. Maybe you're sort of right, Art... And I bet the keys to the Orzeze language/understanding are *fingers* and *bubbles*...
Hm! Maybe the Orz spread, whereas each Orz is an "overmind" to it's *fingers*? A pyramid structure? One Orz feeds/serves/whatevers it's *fingers*, and each of it's *fingers* do the same to THEIR *fingers*?
More interesting stuff:
Here is *good news*!
Six or nine *pieces* ago, myself the Orz did not even *smell* your *level*.
Can you believe? It is so silly! It is such a *happy town*.
Then the Androsynth made some *slippery places* and then Orz can *smell* it.
It *smells* so good Orz are surprised!
I, myself pushed the *fingers* into the *new town* and there are so many *campers*.
First the VUX, but they are such *silly cows*
they ask so much about the Androsynth we must *dance* with them.
Then we can *smell* the Arilou. Again they are *jumping in front*.
It is always! Nnnnggaaahhhhh!
There is *juice squeezing* and then we are not so *frumple*.
Finally we find you, the *happy campers* and the Taalo *playground* for sliding through.
Where are the Taalo? There they are. It is too much fun.
We are too happy, in this *slow time* *heavy space*. It is a better *level* for games.
This is the everything story. Now you know.
So, the Androsynth made some kind of portal (*slippery place*, where you can *slip* through spaces), which in turn let the Orz get in (let them *smell* a new *level* (Hyperspace?), and take over the Androsynth (making them a *finger*)
Maybe, they mean with *dance* to "take over" one's soul, by destroying their physical host? Thus, they gain knowledge and they can *smell* more?
SIGH! Even MORE interesting stuff!
I am already telling the everything story. It is too much.
You do not asking about us the many.
Next it is the *party* and you will *become*.
It is best.
After this you are so *happy* you do not ask the many questions.
Do you anticipate? Yes! You do!
I am too *tired* the *silly* word *game*. *party* = A large *fingerifizing* (*becoming*) thing?
*become* = *fingerifizing*. Making someone a *finger*
*happy* = Orz. Being a *finger*.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 01:45:58 pm by Megagun »
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Elerium
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Hey I came up with that theory! Art improved it 100 fold so it's mine and his 
@Orz
Me thinks that "fingers" means "links to hosts". It fits in as you see below:
I think it's "First it's the alliance with us, then you will become"
That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*.
That's funny. You think you see Orz (as a race) but Orz are not what you see.
Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke.
Maybe you think Orz are many people too. That's a joke.
Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz.
I am not many hosts like people. Orz are just me.
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*.
I am Orz. The one with many links to my hosts. (like overmind)
My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
My links to my hosts reach through into your space and you see Orz hosts.
but it is really *fingers*.
but it is really my links to my hosts.
Maybe you do not even *smell*? That is sad.
Maybe you do not see/take over (like Orz)? That is sad.
*Smelling* *pretty colors* is the best *game*.
Taking over other races is the best "game".
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Elerium
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I am Orz the one with many *fingers*.
I am Orz. the one with many links to my hosts?
After knowing about Orz, Orz can "Pull" *silly campers*. *Silly Androsynth* do not want. (So maybe theirs evidence that the Androsynth are futiliy resisting Orz?! This is getting too *creepy*.
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Elerium
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What about this Megagun? 
Even more *pleasant combinations*. I am *successful* the most.
Even more pleasent races?. I am successful!
Perhaps after the biggest *party* you will understanding the Orz
Perhaps after the biggest * alliance* you will understand the Orz (Be a part of Orz meaning biggest alliance?)
and I can showing you other *levels*.
and then I can show you other levels of change.
There are so many, but you only *play* on this one.
There are so many but you stay on this one.
One is not enough.
One is not enough.
We are *friends* now. Never be afraid to *open* enough and *spread the wax*.
We are allies now. Never be afraid to learn more and spread the word. (Elerium:- Presumably knowing the Orz which would allow them to pull in *campers*)
Edit:
Same with you Megagun, I think *heavy space* means Truespace.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 02:31:50 pm by Elerium »
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meep-eep
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Atoms? That's actually a new one on me. If the Orz bodies physically exist it seems clear that they *are* made of atoms, unless you think *fingers* refers to the Orz species completely being some kind of psychic illusion or exotic matter or whatnot, which isn't something I got out of it. The idea I get is that whatever the Orz and Orz ships are composed are looks just like the usual elementary particles in our 3 (spatial) dimensions. But these Orz particles also have a component in a fourth dimension, unlike ours.
I also don't see a single clue in the game for Orz infecting alien races (perhaps alien society, but not individuals). Which quotes would suggest this according to you?
The Orz looking at everything as a game doesn't have to be true either. Everything with "*game*" and "*dancing*" etc. could actually be just a translation mismatch. It always seemed to me that the neatest explanation for the Androsynth suddenly vanishing and being replaced by the Orz was that the Androsynth literally became the Orz -- that the Orz hivemind took over Androsynth bodies and then physically transformed them into a form more suitable to it or a form less likely to be recognized or whatever. It's the kind of plot one would get from Lovecraft, which is what all the Bukowski stuff is very, very clearly referencing.
As Bukowski says "It's as though something appeared out of nowhere, blasted everything with nuclear bazookas, then grabbed all the Androsynth and disappeared.".
Also, Lovecraft may have been TFB's inspiration here; that doesn't mean they'd just copy it. Whatever you expect from Lovecraft does not necessarilly have to be true here.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 03:48:21 pm by meep-eep »
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“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
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Elerium
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Meep-Eep i'm gonna have a go at explaining the homeworld thing 
If Androsynth "know" about the Orz, Orz can "pull" them. So, I think they pulled their entire homeworld and race into the Orz space:
I will tell again the many *pieces*. You do not know *special things*.
Here is some. *Time* is not one but many.
*Space* is many. *Colors* are many. You are so *sticky*.
You cannot *slide* like Orz from *outside* to *inside* and *in between*.
It is sad, but Orz can *pull* the *campers* after being *connected*.
This is soon.
Orz are trying to *pull* the Androsynth, but they are so *silly*, they do not want.
Arilou can *slide*. Also Taalo. Many can *slide*, but Orz are better of course.
So all the bodies dissapeared on the homeworld (replaced by Orz) and the entire homeworld was left a wreck. After that:-
I, myself pushed the *fingers* into the *new town* and there are so many *campers*.
So hes still must be transforming some Androsynth in his space, while those that submitted are *pushed* into the *new town* as Orz and connected to him via the *fingers*.
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Megagun
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I've made a simple diagram of the orz "Overtake and Transform"-theory, which can be found HERE.
I hope you can somewhat understand it.. And I hope it explains at least SOMETHING to you.. What I'm basically trying to make clear is the method of how the Orz (according to the theory that they somehow take over species, making them their *fingers*) work.
Also note that the name of this theory is subject to change.
Also note that I haven't really read this topic throroughly yet..
Edit: the REASON for the Orz to do all this stuff? Probably that, in their space (their *playground*), there isn't much food, etc... Or maybe too much. At least, SOMETHING is there which makes them do this thing..
Also, it just occured to me that almost every "space" has a natural portal to the "less dense" one. Quasispace -> Hyperspace -> Truespace. One can "slide"(?) from Quasispace to Truespace without the need of any technology. Explains why the Orz are "below" Truespace. If they were "above" Quasispace, they would be able to naturally glide there.. However, this sub-theory might be killed because of the fact that no natural portals exist from Truespace to something else. Unless we're missing something. Also, I think my diagram has the above/below thing wrong. I think it should be a pyramid rather than a funnel... Damn! Ohwell. At least it's got numbers next to each playground/space. One "above" another should be +1, while below should be -1 from it's parent "playground".. Excuse me if I make no sense. --updated the diagram. Now it's OKAY.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 04:22:07 pm by Megagun »
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Elerium
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 Good theory
Edit: aha! *Smelling* *pretty colors* is the best *game*. Means seeing into other spaces is nice (from seeing your table )
Reason Orz do this thing? here:
Here is *bright* and *smooth*. The other place is *hurt* Orz too much tired for keeping together.
Other place is **Frumple**. Orz are here now, but almost not yet.
Soon Orz are really here! You are help Orz with *parties*.
Orz looking for you, and find you. So much joy!!
Now *smooth* place all the time, and after now never going back to outside.
Never!!
Edit: Megagun it makes perfect sense
Second Edit: Orz Timeline update? (I've had a go )
?.?.? Arilou open portals and see Orz. Orz tries to make them "fingers"? but Arilou are too quick and enter the portals and close them before Orz can do a thing. Arilou also may have a natural resistance to the Orz *fingers*. Orz hates Arilou.
20,000 years ago, the Taalo entered Orz space to escape the Dynnari Slave Empire. The Taalo may have been submerted by the Orz, hunted, or hiding from the Orz after escaping on their homeworld. The Taalo race in Truespace has now been wiped out due to Dynarri Ur-Quan genocide. Taalo play *time jokes* on the surface.
Androsynth find Precursor device on a planet and experiment with DF (Dimentional Fatigue). They open a portal leading to Orz space and Orz *smells* the Androsynth. As Androsynth are all clones, Orz *smells* every single one. Orz pushes himself from his space slowly into Truespace due to cracks made by the Androsynth. Androsynth homeworld pulled into the Orz dimention. Orz make Androsynth *fingers* in his dimention. Androsynth now serve Orz but futily resist.
Orz is now pushing himself from his dimention to ours becuase he's under pain from his dimention. Cause unknown. Orz senses Quasi-portal next to Chandrasekhar and warns the Captain to not go there.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 03:43:07 pm by Elerium »
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Megagun
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I updated my diagram. Now it's okay...
Anyways, I wonder if one's *smell* depends on one's species, or one's biological self. Can the Orz *smell* species, or individuals? My guess is, that they can *smell* species, not individuals, once they enter a new playground/dimension/-space.... But then, I wonder what the Arilou did to us Earthlings then.. They "changed our smell"... hmm... Peculiar stuff..
Also, if you follow the Quasispace/Hyperspace/Truespace trend, it seems as if each one gets less dense. Quasispace is dense, Hyperspace is less dense, and Truespace even lesser dense. If the Orz Playground lies beneath Truespace, does that mean that their playground is, well, even lesser dense than Truespace? Maybe that is why they want to get out of there...
Also, where did you find that the Taalo were able to go to the Orz playground?
Another thing to note, is that the Androsynth introduced the Earthlings to Hyperspace technology (since, after all, a trader reported that the Androsynth vanished "in a blaze of red stuff" (or something like that). If he knew about Hyperspace technology, he would have reported that they vanished in a Hyperspace portal). Maybe that is why the Orz seem to be interested in the Earthlings... since they're pretty much the same and all... However, that means that either the Orz can't *fingerify* an entire species all at once (the Earthlings would have been *fingerified* too, then), or the Androsynth were significantly different than Earthlings... OR, the Arilou succeeded in changing our *smell*, which makes me wonder why Orz seem to be so friendly then still...
Either way, the Orz-Arilou stuff might be even more peculiar than the Orz-Androsynth stuff...
Edit: now what happened with Bukowski? If he met an Orz, surely the Arilou failed... Hmm.. Let me quote everything that has to do with Bukowski and the Androsynth..
XENO-HISTORIAN KILGORE HERE, SIR. WE HAVE CONFIRMED THAT THESE RUINS ARE THE REMNANTS OF THE ANDROSYNTH CULTURE. FROM THE MASS DESTRUCTION WE HAVE WITNESSED, WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THERE WAS SOME KIND OF HUGE LAND WAR HERE WITHIN THE PAST FIVE YEARS; HOWEVER, THERE IS NO, REPEAT, NO SIGNS OF ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT OR INVASION FROM SPACE... JUST A WHOLE MESS OF BUILDINGS SHOT TO PIECES. PROBABLY THE WEIRDEST THING WE HAVE SEEN, OR NOT SEEN, ARE CORPSES... THERE AREN'T ANY! IT'S AS THOUGH SOMETHING APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE, BLASTED EVERYTHING WITH NUCLEAR BAZOOKAS, THEN GRABBED ALL THE ANDROSYNTH AND DISAPPEARED.
AN ADDITIONAL REPORT SIR, THIS TIME FROM SCIENCE OFFICER BUKOWSKI -- WE HAVE LOCATED AN ANDROSYNTH SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH STATION AND I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE SOME SENSE OUT OF WHAT IS LEFT OF THEIR CENTRAL COMPUTER. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO, THE ANDROSYNTH BEGAN EXPERIMENTING WITH SOMETHING THEY CALLED DIMENSIONAL FATIGUE PHENOMENA. I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS DIMENSIONAL FATIGUE (OR DF AS THEY CALL IT) IS, BUT MAYBE IF WE EXPLORED ANOTHER CITY, I WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ON THIS SUBJECT.
BUKOWSKI AGAIN, SIR. WE HAVE FOUND ANOTHER RESEARCH INSTITUTE. WELL, THE RUINS OF ONE, ANYWAY. THE COMPUTER HERE'S IN BETTER SHAPE, ALLOWING ME TO LEARN A BIT MORE ABOUT THE ANDROSYNTH'S INVESTIGATION INTO DF, DIMENSIONAL FATIGUE. IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THEIR STUDIES ACTUALLY BEGAN OVER TEN YEARS AGO, AFTER ONE OF THEIR BLAZER VESSELS DISCOVERED SOME PRECURSOR ARTIFACTS IN ALPHA LALANDE. AS FAR AS THEIR SCIENTISTS HERE COULD TELL, THE DEVICES GENERATED DF WAVES WHICH WOULD ALLOW THE USER TO SEE INTO OTHER... WELL, OTHER DIMENSIONS -- REALMS OF EXISTENCE WHICH SHARE POSITION WITH OUR OWN UNIVERSE, BUT HAVE A DIFFERENT... GEE, WHAT SHOULD I CALL IT... REALITY PHASE. ANYWAY, THE ANDROSYNTH HAD HOPED THAT THE DIMENSIONAL FATIGUE TECHNOLOGY CONTAINED IN THE DEVICES WOULD PERMIT THEM TO CREATE NEW, FASTER FORMS OF HYPERDRIVE AND HYPERWAVE. INSTEAD, WHEN THEY BEGAN THEIR EXPERIMENTS, THEY MADE CONTACT WITH SOME KIND OF LIFEFORM ON `THE OTHER SIDE', A CREATURE FROM AN ALIEN DIMENSION.
AGAIN, THE RECORD IS FRAGMENTARY HERE. I SEE REQUESTS TO THE CENTRAL COMPUTER FOR INFORMATION -- DATA ON `REALITY ABERRATIONS', THE `MOSQUITO MANGE' AND, WELL... GHOSTS, POLTERGEISTS, AND OTHER MALEVOLENT, SUPERNATURAL CREATURES. THE REQUESTS GROW MORE URGENT, ALMOST FRANTIC, AND THEN... THE RECORD ENDS.
CAPTAIN, THIS IS ENSIGN HAWTHORNE STANDING IN FOR BUKOWSKI. SIR, BUKOWSKI HAS FOUND SOMETHING, BUT... WELL... IN THE PROCESS HE HAS GONE KIND OF NUTS. WHEN WE FIRST GOT TO THIS DEMOLISHED CITY, BUKOWSKI WENT WILD BECAUSE THE SCIENCE CENTER WAS PRETTY MUCH INTACT. HE LOCKED HIMSELF IN THEIR COMPUTER CONTROL CABIN AND SPENT ABOUT TEN HOURS ALONE IN THERE. WE COULD HEAR HIM MUMBLING TO HIMSELF, THEN HIS SPEECH GOT LOUDER UNTIL HE WAS ALMOST SHOUTING, AND SIR, HE WAS SCARED, DAMN SCARED. WE FINALLY DECIDED THAT WE'D BETTER CHECK UP ON HIM, BUT BUKOWSKI, WOULDN'T LET US INTO THE ROOM. HE SAID THAT NO ONE COULD EVER KNOW WHAT HE HAD LEARNED -- THAT JUST KNOWING WAS ENOUGH TO ALERT `THEM'. HE KEPT TALKING ABOUT `THEM' -- CRAZY STUFF, SIR, ABOUT HOW `THEY' COULD SEE HIM NOW, AND `THEY' WERE MOVING TOWARD HIM. THEN BUKOWSKI STARTED THRASHING AROUND THE ROOM, SCREAMING THAT HE HAD TO DESTROY EVERYTHING BEFORE `THEY' SAW US TOO. HE DID A LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE ANDROSYNTH'S COMPUTER BEFORE WE STOPPED HIM, AND I GUESS HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF IN THE PROCESS. HE'S CUT UP PRETTY BADLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S STRANGE, HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF WORSE THAN I THOUGHT. NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT HIM, IT SEEMS LIKE HE HAS EVEN MORE CUTS THAN JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, AND BOY, IS HE SCREAMING!
BASED ON THE DAMAGE BUKOWSKI WREAKED ON THE CENTRAL COMPUTER, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE WILL FIND ANYTHING MORE DOWN HERE. I THINK WE HAVE LEARNED ALL THAT WE CAN FROM EXPLORING THESE RUINS, AND FRANKLY SIR, WITH ALL OF BUKOWSKI'S RANTING, I'M GETTING A BIT NERVOUS MYSELF. CALL US BACK TO THE SHIP SOON... PLEASE.
Hmm.. Seems like the Orz ARE *Pretty colors* (non-physical-beings).. At least, that's what I think.... Odd stuff happened back there, that's for sure..
Maybe, the Arilou only CHANGED our *smell*, hoping that the Orz wouldn't recognize us... Hmm.. Apparantly, Bukowski came in touch with the Orz, by simply knowing who they were, and knowing said info made the Orz able to *smell* him?
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 04:52:07 pm by Megagun »
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