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Topic: Kohr-Ah Ur-Quan Homeworld? (Read 82775 times)
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Deus Siddis
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"Interpreting "*bubbles*" as anything else than atoms or other elementary particles seems extremely far fetched to me."
Sorry, I meant to say *fingers*, not *bubbles*. *Fingers* are those who have been taken over.
"I also don't see a single clue in the game for Orz infecting alien races (perhaps alien society, but not individuals). Which quotes would suggest this according to you?"
Most of the orz quotes seem to me like they're making the orz out to be body snatchers. Plus, Starcontrol 2 is very similar to Starflight 1 (Lone captain, defeated human empire, giant inverts with tentacles trying to wipe you out, super weapon of an advanced, perceived to be extict race, that you must destroy before it is too late, etc). Plus, according to mobygames.com, Paul Reiche III worked on both Starflights, before doing the first two Starcontrols. So I wouldn't be surprised if Starcontrol 3 followed in the footsteps of Starflight 2 (with the Orz taking the place of the Uhl).
"that the Androsynth as Androsynth no longer exist."
Luke: You told me Orz betrayed and murdered the Androsynth.
Obi Wan: The Androsynth were seduced by the Orz. They ceased to be Androsynth and became Orz. When that happened, the clone men who were your enemies were destroyed. So what I told you was true - from a certain point of view.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 04:52:57 pm by Deus_Siddis »
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meep-eep
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I wonder why people believe *Bubbles* to mean Atoms. This is my *house*. Do you want to know a *secret*? Do not *think* it too *not campers*.
You are so many *lonely* *juicy* *bubbles*. It is so sad.
Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties*
and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*.
This is the *secret*. Doesn't that basically mean something along the lines of: Now you're *bubbles*. With us, you'll soon not be *bubbles*
Individuals might fit. Yes. I don't see anything that contradicts either interpretation. I just thought the atoms (or other elementary particles) theory was the more common one.
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“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
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Mr._Jiggles
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Get Down!
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wow i asked a question about the ur quan homeworld, then we get into a huge discussion about the orz. Great way to derail a topic.
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Deus Siddis
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Argh, too bad that uhl weapon was a one use device. Anyway, I bet the orz demon spirits were going to have a MAJOR relation to the Precursors, that you'd have learned about in SC3 (if it was ever really made). It goes something like this:
A) The Precursors left to fight/flee the Orz.
B) The Precursors transformed into the Orz.
C) The Precursors were nabbed and quickly carted into the Orz dimension, leaving their tech behind just as the androsynth later did when they got snatched. (This is what my money is on.)
"Ur-Quan homeworld once you accept that they probably don't have one anymore."
How did you come to that conclusion?
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Burb
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The Kohr-Ah have a nomadic civilization. They roam around burning stuff, they don't conquer worlds and aren't able to take resources from said worlds like the greenies do.
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Art
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*sigh* WE DISCUSSED THIS TO DEATH EARLIER IN THE THREAD.
The game makes it pretty clear that the whole of the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah civilizations, including their highest leaders and whatnot, travel around the entire galaxy enslaving and killing things, and that that's all they really care about. They don't live in planets, they don't need the luxuries of lesser races, etc., etc.
It's not *so* clear that you couldn't write fanfiction trying to claim that the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah *do* revere the ancient Ur-Quan homeworld over somewhere in another sector of the galaxy, and try to explain how that makes sense next to their observed behavior in the game. However, there's no particular reason to think so aside from it being potentially interesting.
Anyway, the answer to the OP's question -- do the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah spheres of influence actually center about a homeworld? -- is a simple No. The two spheres of influence are vaguely centered around the temporary parking space of the Sa-Matra. And spheres of influence denote the concentrations of fleets, which *are not necessarily* equivalent to spheres of actual political ownership and *do not necessarily* have the actual homeworlds at their center. Remember the Ilwrath having a homeworld outside their SOI, because their whole fleet goes out "hunting" at the same time and is all busy killing Pkunk?
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Deus Siddis
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I didn't say the UQ had a capital world, I just said there's no proof their place of evolution was destroyed (for all we know, it could still be sitting just outside the SC2 map, with brown UQ climbing around on it).
The black and green UQ are GMOs that were spawned from test tubes, so of course they don't care about their ancestor's history.
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Art
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Also, the homeworld was clearly in the territory of the Sentient Milieu, which was huge and galaxy-spanning. When it says the Dnyarri took over the Ur-Quan civilization, it probably doesn't mean that they grabbed a bunch of far-ranging scouts -- it means they *took over the Ur-Quan civilization*.
Given that they created Greens and Blacks because they were more useful than the original Browns, I find it hard to think of any reason why they wouldn't have modified the whole population, or left any Browns alive on the surface out of the goodness of their hearts. They certainly didn't mind genociding whole races completely because they were less than useful, and the process of doing so seemed amusing to them -- there's "no limit to their cruelty", remember?
I feel pretty sure that the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah, which, as mentioned, *do* seem to hold their ancestors in high esteem, would know about it if there were unmodified Ur-Quan left. If the Brown Ur-Quan do exist, it'd have to be through some massive oversight on the Dnyarri's part, and in a form so limited and hidden that the galaxy-spanning Slave Empire *and* the subsequent Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za marches across the galaxy would've completely missed them. I mean, this is the kind of thing they would care about.
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Deus Siddis
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"Given that they created Greens and Blacks because they were more useful than the original Browns, I find it hard to think of any reason why they wouldn't have modified the whole population."
Making major genetic changes to already existing organisms is probably no easy task. It might be much easier to just create a couple specialized offshoots, from modified embryos.
"I feel pretty sure that the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah, which, as mentioned, *do* seem to hold their ancestors in high esteem, would know about it if there were unmodified Ur-Quan left."
How do you know they don't know of any? I mean, they *don't* hold humans in high esteem, so why would they tell us about their homeworld (which by the way, the commander says is not far from "this area of space").
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Sayden
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Well, somewhere further above in this thread, someone was discussing how the Orz could be such a threat, when the Kohr-Ah just sweep over them and destroy them. Easy enough to explain:
Consider that Orz only recently entered our space, and thus haven't had much time to build up a strong power base. Consider also that, unlike the Androsynth, the UQ species are neither one particularly curious, and, given a threat, the natural reaction of the Kohr-Ah is to crush that mosquito with a sledge hammer. The New Alliance is more likely to behave in a diplomatic and slow-paced "friendly" dialogue with this apparently amiable race, thus giving the Orz plenty of time to adapt or whatever they need to do, and build up a significant threat.
This is why, in a sequel, the Orz can be a threat to the New Alliance that they wouldn't have been to the Kohr-Ah. The Kohr-Ah quite simply don't give the enemy time to become dangerous.
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