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Poll
Question: You just freed your race from the Dnyarri. What do you do?
Path of Now and Forever (Kzer-za version)   -2 (9.1%)
Wipe out all sentient life   -1 (4.5%)
Wipe out all life, sentient or not   -2 (9.1%)
Wipe out all planets which might eventually harbor life   -1 (4.5%)
Like the PoNaF but with no battle thralls   -0 (0%)
Take all the sentients and put them on a Ringworld. Plenty of space but they'll never get off the thing.   -3 (13.6%)
Try to get over it, start a new Sentient Milieu   -12 (54.5%)
Other (elaborate)   -1 (4.5%)
Total Voters: 21

Author Topic: Choose your path  (Read 8935 times)
Halleck
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2005, 06:44:53 am »

Ringworlds are not the same thing as dyson spheres. Dyson spheres are theoretical structures that are built to surround an entire star, trapping nearly all it's energy. A ringworld is best thought of as a slice of a dyson sphere, which forms a ring around a star but does not enclose it.
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Death 999
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2005, 04:42:05 pm »

The advantage of a ringworld over a dyson sphere is that you can spin it to make gravity. The disadvantage is that you need some unbelieveably strong material to hold it together. It would be some 100 times stronger than the strongest material we've ever seen.
Niven calls it 'scrith'.
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Halleck
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2005, 05:20:31 pm »

The same is true of a dyson sphere- though in that case, it actually would be more plausible and practical to build a highly dense sphere out of individual collectors instead of a continuous structutre.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2005, 05:59:46 pm »

How do you hold the atmosphere in place on a Dyson's Sphere?
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2005, 06:33:25 pm »

How do you hold the atmosphere in place on a Dyson's Sphere?
Um, since Dyson's Sphere would be built around a star, there wouldn't be any atmosphere to hold, right? Or am I misunderstanding something?
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2005, 07:11:15 pm »

Wait is a dyson's sphere for habitation pr energy collection.  Because if it is for habitation Deus_Siddis has a point. Unlike a ring you couldn't generate gravity to keep the atomosphere in place around the edges.  And you couldn't flood the sphere with atmosphere, many gases namely oxygen which would be require for human settlers are flameable.... A star is one big ass spark... boom!
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2005, 08:32:02 pm »

Oh, it is not a habitat? So then why would it need centrifical artificial grav, anyway? I assume that ring worlds have walls on the edges of their inside surface, to prevent the atmosphere from flying sideways into space. But for a sphere, I don't think this method would give the poles much of an atmosphere. If it is just for energy collection, you have to wonder why anyone would expend such great resources to encompass an entire sun from a considerable radius, just to catch some rays. Cool
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2005, 11:31:43 pm »

I wonder how practical a dyson sphere is EVEN if you could make it.

First: There has to be a better way of collecting energy - even if it means going to other stars. If at the time life can't go to other stars, then what the heck are they doing covering up one of their only means of light and heat?

Second:  (spoken from a person who does not know that much about the sun) How high do sun flares go? Even if there were no sun flares, what is the average degrees of searing heat that far above the sun? (the sphere itself is about ten miles off - max?) Also - what kind of stresses would this structure have to take while its hot? That is a incredible/impossible material.
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Culture20
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2005, 02:13:53 am »

Dyson Spheres are generally described as being the radius of Earth's distance from the Sun.  Mass could be localized in places on the sphere's interior to create gravity wells (comparitively little bumps of atmosphere, water, and dirt).
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Chrispy
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2005, 02:58:19 am »

Which brings up another problem, what do you make it out of, and where do you get it from?
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Kohr-Ah Death
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2005, 03:38:41 am »

The advantage of a ringworld over a dyson sphere is that you can spin it to make gravity. The disadvantage is that you need some unbelieveably strong material to hold it together. It would be some 100 times stronger than the strongest material we've ever seen.
Niven calls it 'scrith'.[/
i]

then

The same is true of a dyson sphere- though in that case, it actually would be more plausible and practical to build a highly dense sphere out of individual collectors instead of a continuous structutre.
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Halleck
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2005, 04:28:00 am »

Um... Death 999 said "The advantage of a ringworld over a dyson sphere is that you can spin it to make gravity. The disadvantage [of a ringworld over a dyson sphere] is that you need some unbelieveably strong material to hold it together. "

and i said "The same is true of a dyson sphere." As in, you would also need unbelieveably strong material.

What's the big catch there? What are you trying to show?
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Kohr-Ah Death
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2005, 05:02:27 am »

nvm i'll delete the post if you dont get it Roll Eyes
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2005, 05:14:03 am »

"Ringworlds are not the same thing as dyson spheres. Dyson spheres are theoretical structures that are built to surround an entire star, trapping nearly all it's energy. A ringworld is best thought of as a slice of a dyson sphere, which forms a ring around a star but does not enclose it. "

So then are they the same sort of thing, or do they have different purposes, like artificial environment versus energy collection?


"Dyson Spheres are generally described as being the radius of Earth's distance from the Sun."

That seems too big, where would you ever get enough material? Maybe if it was around the orbit of venus (which could be less hot if it had a different atmosphere).


"Which brings up another problem, what do you make it out of, and where do you get it from?"

You make it out of something really strong and really cheap, and you get it where ever you can find it (anywhere and everywhere). Undecided


"What's the big catch there? What are you trying to show?"

I guess he's answering Chrispy's question with your and Death_999's words. I'm not sure if it's correct, though. Does a ring world need so much centrifical force to hold in its atmosphere, that it rips itself apart unless crafted of unrealistically strong alloys?
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Kohr-Ah Death
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Re: Choose your path
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2005, 05:26:31 am »

is there any better pictures of the dyson sphere or the ringworld?

it'd be kinda cool to have a nice picture for my desktop
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