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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Quetzalcoatl
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Expert Mode?
« on: August 13, 2005, 07:05:22 am »

Just a suggestion from someone that has highly enjoyed your work.   I love UQM, but the just seems way too easy to me anymore (and I didnt even use the walkthrough this time like I did when it first came out, heh.)   I was wondering if sometime in the future an "expert" mode or something like that might be included, with scarcer resources, harder enemies, maybe even relocated rainbow worlds (yes I know that would fit with the story/dialog, but you know.)  I would love to see something like that myself, although I'm sure I don't speak for everyone.  Just some ideas:  setting the sell prices on resources lower would have quite an effect, raising Melnorme prices, making enemy ship weapons stronger (ones you can never control yourself, at least, such as Kohr-Ah and Ilwrath) and giving them faster batteries, and.. well.. I'm sure you could think of many ways to do it really, heh.

It would add quite a bit to the replay value of the game, IMHO.
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2005, 05:15:08 pm »

Anything that interacts with the plot is going to be hard to change, but making stuff more expensive, giving enemies tougher weapons and so on should be reasonably easy to do.

Also, it should be possible to make the full game enemies use the awesome AI. That would make the game a bit harder, too.

I've been thinking about trying to improve the AI to make it harder to defeat the entire known universe with Fwiffo's Eluder, but this would obviously require a lot of work.
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2005, 07:06:01 pm »

As far as the values go, it shouldn't be difficult to make an "Expert Patch". Anyone willing to try?
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2005, 03:02:17 am »

I've been trying, but so far am unable to locate the ship data...

But will keep taking cracks at it.   I, however, have little/no idea what I am doing, heh.  
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meep-eep
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2005, 03:20:58 am »

src/sc2code/ships/*/*.c, the first structure in the files.
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2005, 11:24:18 am »

it's easy after you finish the game the first time because you know what to do.
changing the rainbow locations is not a good idea but there are some ways to make it more difficult and challanging like you said melnorme more expensive, gathering minerals is more vital, more ships guarding certain planets etc'.
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Captain_Smith
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2005, 06:03:02 pm »

Yeah the thing about an expert mode patch is that if you know the game, there are so many parts of it that can be legitimately abused to make life too simple.  I don't know if TFB didn't get the chance to fully play test the game for balance, or whatever, but as long as those legitimate abuse things exist, I would wager to think it would be extremely easy to defeat the game.

1) There are way many more RU in the universe than you could ever need.
2) The Druuge fuel trick for RU.
3) The Melnorme credit/RU exchange.

Between the three, I got over 400000 RU out of the game one time before I got tired.

Perhaps the only real "expert" thing to change is to increase the costs for everything in the game and decrease all the hit values for the ships.  If one is really serious about doing this, the first step would be to find out how much RU & biounits are in the game, total, and try to base a good number off of that.

To minimally complete the game (getting just enough RU to get you through), I find it only takes the mining of 2 exotic worlds, Mercury, Io, and Pluto (for Fwiffo).  Issue?  When you know the game I would think so.

P.S. If you want a little fun trying playing as the Druuge in a group against a group of Chmmr.  It's fun rocking those ships and not letting them have a chance as you destroy them.  My record for number of casualties is five.
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Death 999
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2005, 01:52:25 am »

To make things harder, we could move the planet landing view back into the little corner screen. Then it would be harder to dodge earthquakes.

Reduce the RU per kiloton of exotics from 25 to 10.

Make each bio unit give you 1 melnorme credit, not 2.

Make each rainbow world yield 200 credits, not 500.

That should at least make you put some more effort into the resource-gathering.

Also, we could expand the spheres of influence of the various bad guys. Make the Kohr-Ah sphere extend over Betelgeuse... Bwahaha!
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2005, 12:51:23 pm »

Ah, I just thought about the reducing mineral worth thing, too..

Anyways, what about Slylandro roaming around in Truespace (solar systems)? Could make things a bit harder at the start of the game, right? And what about NOT letting Fwiffo join your team?
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meep-eep
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2005, 03:17:16 pm »

So you'd spend more time gathering minerals. Would that really make the game harder? Or just more monotonous...
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2005, 06:29:33 pm »

I haven't looked much at the source but I figure it's easier to just decrese the value of the RU rather than increasing prices etc. This would require changing the places where the player gets RU (like debris, mineral from Hayes, etc).

There could be a function for this like below. It wouln't change the game but it would make things easier to modify.


Function GivePlayerRU ( RU )
   PlayerRU = PlayerRU + ( RU * 1.0 )
End function

Crew could be made a lot more expensive on top of that.

Aslo, all damage inflicted on the player's ship could be doubled, although that's sort of inconsistant.
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2005, 06:59:27 pm »

So you'd spend more time gathering minerals. Would that really make the game harder? Or just more monotonous...


It can be cool if you had a few levels of difficulty. and there's no need for plot change like replacing rainbow world's location.
for example if you found the pattern of the rainbow worlds it's very easy to find them all and you dont even need bio data from planets. but if you decrease the rainbow worlds worth in half there's still a point.
mining more resources is one of the most important parts of the game, but it's kinda useless when you have so many credits and exotic planets nearby. 2 exotic worlds in centauri give you fastest speed.on the start.
Also I think mulitple lander should have a significant change, I mean buying more than 1 seems a waste now.
=]
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Death 999
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2005, 08:52:18 pm »

Okay, my suggestions would be monotonous.

How about a modification in which the resources on the planets were altered? So, in any 'normal' system (i.e. no modifications, e.g. everything except Sol, homeworlds, etc.) the random seed determining the contents of that system would be incremented by N, where N is based on the starting date in the save file.

It would rearrange the resources so you'd need to explore, that's for sure.

Or we could make the change apply everywhere but only apply to resource placement, so it wouldn't conflict with the modified planets.
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meep-eep
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2005, 08:54:37 pm »

That's easilly done. Just a matter of adding '+1' to the seed.
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“When Juffo-Wup is complete
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when the Creators return
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Quetzalcoatl
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Re: Expert Mode?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2005, 09:55:17 pm »

While having harder to find minerals would be cool, I was thinking more along the lines of what Death 999 posted, IE 10 RU for exotics, 1 Credit for lifeforms with the Melnorme, 100 or so for a rainbow world (I mean, it would be an EXPERT mode.)

And I would really like to see boosted enemy ships, like the VUX and Ur-Quans, and even the Sa-Matra.   Wishful thinking though, till I figure out how to get this thing to compile Wink
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