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Jinx
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Hints about hints?
« on: September 07, 2005, 01:30:19 pm »

Hi all... I've been introducing a few of my friends to this game, but it's been so long since I played it myself I've forgotten half the puzzles. With that in mind, and the fact that just being given answers kinda ruins the effect a bit, I'm wondering where and how in the game you're supposed to get any information on some of the trickier puzzles:

1) Finding the VUX captain's monster (I remember finding this a real pain myself). Can you get any more information than the captain gives you?

2) How are you supposed to find out a) the location of the sun device (the thing you use on the Chenjesu), and b) the purpose of it?

3) Where do you learn the location of the Sa-Matra and the means you need to destroy it?

4) How d'you discover the location and purpose of the mindshield (though I assume the purpose is fairly obvious)?

5) Is there any easier way to discover the location of the Syreen fleet than looking at all the yellow stars (or whatever it was) near Betelgeuse? If, as I vaguely remember, you need something to break them out, how d'you discover where it is?

6) How are you supposed to find out where to get a Mycon egg case? Also, how do you get the one on Beta Brahe short of waiting for the Ur-Quan to arrive?

Finally

7) How can you find out what the Ilwrath homeworld is?




A couple of questions for my own curiousity:

Does sending the Ilwrath to attack the Thraddash actually have any useful effect? What about sending the Thraddash to attack the Ur-Quan? Or is that just so you can get the Aqua Helix?

Finally, is it possible to download the intro and ending movies alone for those of us who have an older version but only have dial up?

Thanks Smiley
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2005, 02:29:21 pm »

You can find all this information out by talking to everyone you can possibly talk to about absolutely everything Smiley I won't give any spoilers though, I'll leave that up to the others since I"m about to go to bed Wink
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2005, 02:53:24 pm »

1) Finding the VUX captain's monster (I remember finding this a real pain myself). Can you get any more information than the captain gives you?
Someone particularly interested in ferocity may be able to tell you more, if you treat them right. Also, Admiral ZEX gives you a hint that makes a lot more sense if you have the original starmap (which I strongly feel should be included in the game distribution!).

Quote
2) How are you supposed to find out a) the location of the sun device (the thing you use on the Chenjesu), and b) the purpose of it?
a) You need to find a race that has scouts exploring Mycon space or their close friends.
b) Well, the Chmmr are pretty explicit about their needs, aren't they?

Quote
3) Where do you learn the location of the Sa-Matra and the means you need to destroy it?
Everyone in or near Ur-Quan space knows where they're fighting, roughly. You'll have to work out the exact location yourself, though.

Quote
4) How d'you discover the location and purpose of the mindshield (though I assume the purpose is fairly obvious)?
The Melnorme seem to know everything, but those who actually knew the Taalo can also give you hints.

Quote
5) Is there any easier way to discover the location of the Syreen fleet than looking at all the yellow stars (or whatever it was) near Betelgeuse? If, as I vaguely remember, you need something to break them out, how d'you discover where it is?
Ask someone with an insider's view on Ur-Quan space.

Quote
6) How are you supposed to find out where to get a Mycon egg case?
This is a bit of a problem. Talana gave you the location of one shattered planet (Syra) in the PC version, but this was removed in the 3DO version, so it's missing in UQM. You'll just have to explore.

Quote
Also, how do you get the one on Beta Brahe short of waiting for the Ur-Quan to arrive?
Arrange a distraction. Give the Mycon something interesting and important to do elsewhere. An old enemy can arrange this given sufficient proof of Mycon hostility.

Quote
7) How can you find out what the Ilwrath homeworld is?
They actually tell you that themselves. Just annoy them enough.

Quote
Does sending the Ilwrath to attack the Thraddash actually have any useful effect? What about sending the Thraddash to attack the Ur-Quan? Or is that just so you can get the Aqua Helix?
Yes, yes and no, respectively. Anything that messes up the Thraddash fleet helps you grab their stuff. Getting rid of the Ilwrath also helps if they get in your way. Other races attacking the Kohr-Ah slows them down quite a bit, postponing the cleansing of the sector.

Quote
Finally, is it possible to download the intro and ending movies alone for those of us who have an older version but only have dial up?
The 3DO movies can also be found in PoNaF's 3DO movie section (these copies can not be used in UQM, and the legality of these copies is somewhat questionable). The PC version really needs to be played in UQM, but you can get away with quite a small download of UQM if you only want to see the PC intro (no speech, no 3DO music).
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2005, 04:15:16 pm »

The Thraddash attacking the Kohr-Ah does not slow them down. It's just another way to get to the Aqua Helix.

The intro and ending movies that come with 0.4, but not with older versions are the PC slides, not the 3DO videos.
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2005, 07:14:54 pm »

Someone particularly interested in ferocity may be able to tell you more, if you treat them right.

Actually this is very much a tricky hint.  If you say (or in this case direct) the wrong things, this race won't help you.

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Everyone in or near Ur-Quan space knows where they're fighting, roughly. You'll have to work out the exact location yourself, though.

Actually certain races will tell you exactly where you want to go.  It's just that they are very cryptic about it.

Quote
The Melnorme seem to know everything, but those who actually knew the Taalo can also give you hints.

Yeah, this is actually the hardest one in the game, I think.  This race doesn't give you much of a hint, but if you do try to go after what the mindshield's purpose is, a certain other race might be able to give you some direction.  The race he speaks of though isn't necessarily on the sharp side regarding what you'll find.

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6) How are you supposed to find out where to get a Mycon egg case?
This is a bit of a problem. Talana gave you the location of one shattered planet (Syra) in the PC version, but this was removed in the 3DO version, so it's missing in UQM. You'll just have to explore.

Yeah, this is one of the "big problems" as you can see by the forum sticky.  Evidently this hint got removed in the 3DO version.  But if you know where the Mycon homeworld is, you can make some fairly educated guesses as to where to start looking.  And you'll find three of the egg cases (more is better actually so you can deal with a certain OTHER race), so it's not that difficult - you don't have to find Syra, just find an egg case.
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2005, 07:21:46 pm »

The Thraddash attacking the Kohr-Ah does not slow them down. It's just another way to get to the Aqua Helix.
I seem to be really misinformed today. Maybe I should just shut up. Huh
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2005, 01:46:03 pm »

Oops... I didn't quite explain what I was after. When I say hints about hints, I really mean I want straightforward answers about how to get ingame hints, so I can give my friends just enough info to enjoy the game. But since I've got a few riddles to solve, I'll have a go. For the record, as far as I know, my friend's spoken to everyone on every topic - he might have missed vital info or something, but I remember having similar problems. So I'm looking for exact conversation strings, along with any triggers I need to have made them available and anything I mustn't do to remove them (including whether you can only get the info from them once).

Quote

[VUX monster]

Someone particularly interested in ferocity may be able to tell you more, if you treat them right. Also, Admiral ZEX gives you a hint that makes a lot more sense if you have the original starmap (which I strongly feel should be included in the game distribution!).

I'm assuming the first race is the Thraddash, but Captain Smith makes it sound as though we've missed it. How d'you get them to tell you? And what's on the original star map that makes Sextantis look like a serpent? I always thought that was absurd...

Quote

[Sun Device]

a) You need to find a race that has scouts exploring Mycon space or their close friends.
b) Well, the Chmmr are pretty explicit about their needs, aren't they?

I'll take your word for b) - it's been a while since I played the game myself. I'm assuming a) means the Slylandro - but I was there when my friend went through all the conversation threads with them, and I don't remember them mentioning that. What's the exhange? Do you need to have done anything previously to trigger it?

Quote

Actually certain races will tell you exactly where you want to go.  It's just that they are very cryptic about it.

The Zot-Fot-Pik I'm guessing? What's the conversation prerequisites?

Quote

[Mindshield]

The Melnorme seem to know everything, but those who actually knew the Taalo can also give you hints.

The Melnorme tell you their homeworld? *Sighs*... we musta glossed over that one... Which of their info subjects is it? I'm guessing history? And roughly which buy is it?

And I assume you mean the Ur-Quan? I thought I remembered them saying something about useful, but according to my friend he didn't get anything from chatting to them.

Quote
[Syreen fleet]

Ask someone with an insider's view on Ur-Quan space.

ZFP? D'you just have to visit them after the Syreen say they'll help you if you can get their fleet?

Quote

[Egg case]

This is a bit of a problem. Talana gave you the location of one shattered planet (Syra) in the PC version, but this was removed in the 3DO version, so it's missing in UQM. You'll just have to explore.

So it's just a case of looking it up, really?

Quote
[2nd egg case]

Arrange a distraction. Give the Mycon something interesting and important to do elsewhere. An old enemy can arrange this given sufficient proof of Mycon hostility.

So it's impossible to use this egg case on the Syreen in the first place? Is it what you're supposed to use to buy the Rosy Sphere?

Quote
[Ilwrath homeworld]

They actually tell you that themselves. Just annoy them enough.

Keep fighting their ships in other words? D'you have to fight them a few times first? If we've missed it, will they tell us again?

Quote
[Diverting enemies]

Yes, yes and no, respectively. Anything that messes up the Thraddash fleet helps you grab their stuff. Getting rid of the Ilwrath also helps if they get in your way. Other races attacking the Kohr-Ah slows them down quite a bit, postponing the cleansing of the sector.

So you only move the Ilwrath to get to the Chenjesu relatively easily?

Come to think of it, I noticed when I sent them off that the Ilwrath seemed to shrink a lot faster than the Thraddash, so that even though the Thraddash had been decimated by the Ur-Quan, the Ilwrath only barely beat them. If you send the Ilwrath over without getting the Thraddash to attack the Ur-Quan, what happens?

I just remembered another question of my own, btw - when I played, and sold my crew to the Druuge, the starbase captain bitched my ear out. For some reason in my friend's game, he just said 'I've heard some disturbing rumours about you, but I don't believe them.' Why the difference?

Thanks for everything so far, btw Smiley
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 01:49:09 pm »

One other thing... is there any way to discover the Mycon's actual homeworld in this version of the game? Or is that another thing you have to cheat/explore forever on?
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2005, 03:08:08 pm »

Quote
The 3DO movies can also be found in PoNaF's 3DO movie section (these copies can not be used in UQM, and the legality of these copies is somewhat questionable).

Hmm... I tried the dl link on PonaF and it just took me to the frontpage of fileplanet. Am I going wrong somewhere, or does that mean FP have removed it?

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The PC version really needs to be played in UQM,

I don't really get what you mean by that..?
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2005, 06:36:48 pm »

Quote
[VUX monster]

Someone particularly interested in ferocity may be able to tell you more, if you treat them right. Also, Admiral ZEX gives you a hint that makes a lot more sense if you have the original starmap (which I strongly feel should be included in the game distribution!).

I'm assuming the first race is the Thraddash, but Captain Smith makes it sound as though we've missed it. How d'you get them to tell you? And what's on the original star map that makes Sextantis look like a serpent? I always thought that was absurd...

The system in question is not Sextantis. In fact it's on the opposite side of the starmap from there. I would suggest you take a good hard look at the Original Paper Hyperspace Map that shipped with SC2. The clue from ZEX follows:

My source for this information is an ancient wildlife handbook
written millenia ago by some unknown alien author. The pertinent passage goes as follows
`... demise, It(!) basks in yellow light within the constellation Linch-Nas-Ploh.'
We have translated `Linch-Nas-Ploh' to mean approximately
`the long, thin creature who has swallowed the huge beast.'
I am afraid this is all that I know.
I hope it is sufficient.

Quote
[Sun Device]

a) You need to find a race that has scouts exploring Mycon space or their close friends.
b) Well, the Chmmr are pretty explicit about their needs, aren't they?

I'll take your word for b) - it's been a while since I played the game myself. I'm assuming a) means the Slylandro - but I was there when my friend went through all the conversation threads with them, and I don't remember them mentioning that. What's the exhange? Do you need to have done anything previously to trigger it?

The race in question is not the Slylandro. Have another look at the Hyperspace map linked above. Note the difference between the "then" represented in that map and the "now" you are currently experiencing. Try looking for a race that existed "then" but not "now".

Quote
Actually certain races will tell you exactly where you want to go.  It's just that they are very cryptic about it.

The Zot-Fot-Pik I'm guessing? What's the conversation prerequisites?

I think the cryptic message that was hinted at was this one:

Before we proceed Captain, I must speak.
Many of my people have not been sleeping well these past few nights.
In fact, I myself did not sleep well last night.
Well, actually I slept okay in the first part of the night, and then had a little trouble a little later on
maybe halfway through, until I got up and had something to eat.
Anyway, the reason we're not sleeping is because of a dream. Yes, a dream.
We have seen that in the center of this region of space, near stars that form the shape of a cup
and are in a constellation that begins with the letter C and ends with the letter S
and whose letters rearranged spell `Asteric', two great armadas fight.
One of black ships, the other of green.
Our dream tells us that if the black ships should win this fight, they will destroy all life in this region.
Captain, they are winning now. If there is anything you can do to stop them you must do it... please!
Okay, that's all I wanted to say.

Quote
[Mindshield]

The Melnorme seem to know everything, but those who actually knew the Taalo can also give you hints.

The Melnorme tell you their homeworld? *Sighs*... we musta glossed over that one... Which of their info subjects is it? I'm guessing history? And roughly which buy is it?

And I assume you mean the Ur-Quan? I thought I remembered them saying something about useful, but according to my friend he didn't get anything from chatting to them.

The topic is indeed History. If the datafile I'm reading is correct, it's the fourth topic.

Oddly enough the race who "knows" the Taalo isn't one you'd expect. The current residents of that area (Orz) call it the "playground". It more fun than several.

Quote
[Syreen fleet]

Ask someone with an insider's view on Ur-Quan space.

ZFP? D'you just have to visit them after the Syreen say they'll help you if you can get their fleet?

I can't say for sure how it's triggered (short of being allied to them), but the ZFP do indeed mention it.

Quote
[Egg case]

This is a bit of a problem. Talana gave you the location of one shattered planet (Syra) in the PC version, but this was removed in the 3DO version, so it's missing in UQM. You'll just have to explore.

So it's just a case of looking it up, really?

Almost every Shattered World has an Egg Case. The ones that don't are the Mycon homeworld and the planet with the Sun Device.

Quote
[2nd egg case]

Arrange a distraction. Give the Mycon something interesting and important to do elsewhere. An old enemy can arrange this given sufficient proof of Mycon hostility.

So it's impossible to use this egg case on the Syreen in the first place? Is it what you're supposed to use to buy the Rosy Sphere?

Show the egg case to the Syreen. Then after you're done with that, you can trade it to the Druuge for the Rosy Sphere. It should also be noted that there are a total of three egg cases in the game, so you have some leeway with this.

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[Ilwrath homeworld]

They actually tell you that themselves. Just annoy them enough.

Keep fighting their ships in other words? D'you have to fight them a few times first? If we've missed it, will they tell us again?

If they follow the pattern that other races do, they probably won't tell you again. But they DO give you the coordinates at some point. Their position on the map linked above should give you a better idea of where to look for their homeworld.

Quote
[Diverting enemies]

Yes, yes and no, respectively. Anything that messes up the Thraddash fleet helps you grab their stuff. Getting rid of the Ilwrath also helps if they get in your way. Other races attacking the Kohr-Ah slows them down quite a bit, postponing the cleansing of the sector.

So you only move the Ilwrath to get to the Chenjesu relatively easily?

Come to think of it, I noticed when I sent them off that the Ilwrath seemed to shrink a lot faster than the Thraddash, so that even though the Thraddash had been decimated by the Ur-Quan, the Ilwrath only barely beat them. If you send the Ilwrath over without getting the Thraddash to attack the Ur-Quan, what happens?

The only (in game) reason to send the Ilwrath off is to remove the guards that protect the Chenjesu world.

Regardless of what you do prior to causing the Ilwrath/Thraddash war, they will kill each other every time.

I just remembered another question of my own, btw - when I played, and sold my crew to the Druuge, the starbase captain bitched my ear out. For some reason in my friend's game, he just said 'I've heard some disturbing rumours about you, but I don't believe them.' Why the difference?

The difference is in the amount of crew you sell. See Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2005, 07:07:24 pm »

Hmm... I tried the dl link on PonaF and it just took me to the frontpage of fileplanet. Am I going wrong somewhere, or does that mean FP have removed it?
FilePlanet has some bugs in their download system. It's been saying "File not found" a lot lately, but usually works if you try the link again. You may have to create a user account at FilePlanet, too.

I don't quite understand why PoNaF has MPEGs of the 3DO videos but not the original DUK data. The legal issues are pretty much the same and the files are roughly the same size and somewhat better quality (though not as much better as you'd expect).

Quote
Quote
The PC version really needs to be played in UQM,
I don't really get what you mean by that..?
The PC version of the intro consists of text, slides and music. You could in theory download the entire content separately and flip through it manually, but the only (easy) way to get the full effect is to download UQM 0.4 (or PC SC2, but that has other problems). This is in contrast to the 3DO videos on PoNaF, which can be downloaded and viewed separately.
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2005, 08:14:25 pm »

Oops... I didn't quite explain what I was after. When I say hints about hints, I really mean I want straightforward answers about how to get ingame hints, so I can give my friends just enough info to enjoy the game.
Ah, OK. Clarifications coming right up.


ZEX's beauty:

This is a bit complicated. You have to impress the Thraddash with your 31337 5h1p-70-5h1p c0m8@7 5k111z and teach them to behave just like you. Then ask them twice how their new culture is developing, and they will tell you about a really nasty beast on Delta Lyncis 1. Oh, and don't try to steal the Aqua Helix before or while doing this, as this will piss them off (unlike just killing them).

BTW, the Lyncis constellation looks like a long and narrow (snake-like) thing with a big lump (big swallowed creature) in the middle, which explains ZEX's hint.


Sun device:

If you ask the Chmmr for help against the Ur-Quan, they will explain that the speed of the Chenjesu-Mmrnmhrm synthesis process is limited by the solar energy they get through their slave shield. The player can then ask follow-up questions for details.


Sa-Matra location:

The Utwig and Supox will mention the Ur-Quan fighting about something in the Crateris constellation if they are your allies and have been in contact with the Ur-Quan. You'll have to figure out which star yourself. The Thraddash will tell you if you are allied with them and ask them about any developments you should know of, and the Melnorme have this as current event info number 2. The Zoq-Fot-Pik will mention this when the Kohr-Ah start rampaging and you ask for war reports.


Taalo device:

Melnorme history info number 4 tells you that the Taalo were immune to Dnyarri compulsion, lived on a moon of Delta Vulpeculae 2 and had completed a shield against Dnyarri compulsion.

The Kohr-Ah mention the Taalo and their immunity when rambling about why they're killing everyone. To get them to tell you this, you must use the phrase: "Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?". The Arilou mention this as hint number 3 when you ask for help, and the Pkunk describe this in a dream in advice number 1.


Syreen ambush:

This is a bit of a problem. You need a Mycon egg shell from a shattered world. Talana gave you the location of one shattered planet (Syra) in the PC version, but this was removed in the 3DO version, so it's missing in UQM. It's Beta Copernicus 1. There should be one in Gamma Scorpii and Gamma Brahe, too, so you can sell one to the Druuge.

To convince Talana, you need an egg shell and need to know that Mycon deep children are responsible for the shattering. The Mycon will tell you if you listen to their ramblings (number 25!) or if you ask them at their homeworld about shattered worlds after finding one. The Druuge tell you as general info number 3 at their homeworld and the Arilou as their second hint.

The Syreen give you a shuttle with people who can open the Penetrator vault and fly the ships. The vault is at Epsilon Camelopardalis 1A, as your Zoq-Fot-Pik allies will tell you the third time you ask for general info at their homeworld.

Then you have to find the Mycon homeworld (Epsilon Scorpii, not mentioned in 3DO version, but right in the middle of Mycon space) and convince them to go to Organon as Talana suggested.


Ilwrath homeworld:

They give you co-ordinates for the Alpha Tauri system, if you ask them for info three times (ask them about "Doggone and Quasar" after asking twice what they are up to).


Ilwrath-Thraddash war:

Getting the Ilwrath to attack the Thraddash allows you to get to the Chmmr homeworld with the Sun Device (otherwise the Ilwrath move in and stop you with infinite ships). It also messes up the Thraddash so you can get the Aqua Helix with killing them yourself.


If you need exact quotes, the files content/comm/[race]/[race].txt in the content ZIP or directory contain the dialogue for each race.
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2005, 08:34:35 pm »

Since the others pretty much handled anything and everything, I'll just clarify on what was addressed to me.

I'm assuming the first race is the Thraddash, but Captain Smith makes it sound as though we've missed it. How d'you get them to tell you?

Assumption correct.  It's just that pointing to that race can sometimes lead to nothing if you've already either 1) led them down the wrong path in terms of getting that hint. or 2) pissed them off.

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Quote
Actually certain races will tell you exactly where you want to go.  It's just that they are very cryptic about it.
The Zot-Fot-Pik I'm guessing? What's the conversation prerequisites?

Already described, but several of the races will point you there.  I was referring to the Pkunk hint.

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The Melnorme seem to know everything, but those who actually knew the Taalo can also give you hints.

Yes, the Melnorme know everything, but a buy from them is not necessary to have all the hints to complete the game.  The Orz are helpful in a general sense (the "not so sharp comment"), but the Arilou can point you much more directly to the necessity if you've encountered the toady dweeb already.  And then the Kohr-Ah rantings help put 2 & 2 together too.

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So it's just a case of looking it up, really?

With Syra, yes, since it was removed out of UQM.

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So it's impossible to use this egg case on the Syreen in the first place? Is it what you're supposed to use to buy the Rosy Sphere?

You only need 1 egg case to complete the game, though like I said more could be useful with the Druuge if you want their ships.  Beta Brahe has something else.

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Keep fighting their ships in other words? D'you have to fight them a few times first? If we've missed it, will they tell us again?

Yes, usually.  If I recall it's the 2nd question opt, third attempt.  So you'll have to get through three groups of Ilwrath to get it.  This was also supposed to be a hint gathered out of the paper map included with the game - the Ilwrath sphere of influence is different.

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So you only move the Ilwrath to get to the Chenjesu relatively easily?

You move the Ilwrath to get to them AT ALL.  They mass an infinite amount of ships at Procyon if you're ready to be sent to the Sa-Matra.

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If you send the Ilwrath over without getting the Thraddash to attack the Ur-Quan, what happens?

The same thing.

Quote
I just remembered another question of my own, btw - when I played, and sold my crew to the Druuge, the starbase captain bitched my ear out. For some reason in my friend's game, he just said 'I've heard some disturbing rumours about you, but I don't believe them.' Why the difference?

There's a certain threshold in that "Crew Cost" thread.  You sold more than that threshold, but your friend didn't.
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2005, 08:38:24 pm »

Quote from: Sage link=topic=2463.msg31671#msg31671
The race in question is not the Slylandro. Have another look at the Hyperspace map linked above. Note the difference between the "then" represented in that map and the "now" you are currently experiencing. Try looking for a race that existed "then" but not "now".

If I recall, actually the Yehat can perhaps help you out on this one too.

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I think the cryptic message that was hinted at was this one:

That would be the one.[tr][/tr]
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Re: Hints about hints?
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2005, 08:51:52 pm »

I forgot to mention one thing. The Yehat and Shofixti know about the Sun Device. The Yehat will mention this if you ask for help, and the Shofixti when explaining what happened to him.
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RTTFAQ = Read the Ur-Quan Masters Technical FAQ.
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