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Megagun
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SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« on: November 02, 2005, 08:00:11 pm »

Star Control 3 - the REAL sequel - SC3r plot #690340, unless I missed a few.. Contact me if that is the case.. Tongue
v0.2 - needs more stuff to be explained, etc. This is just a draft! Not even complete yet!
----------------------------------------------------

Quick notes:
The "original","real","sucky" Star Control 3 is hereby thought of as "never happened".
Also, I'd be glad if people made suggestions and recommendations to this... I'd be honored if someone decided to turn my plot into a mod/"sequel" to UQM, but I'd be honored even more if others participated in the plot, too.. It's not my reason to get this plot shoved through your throats (Imagine a Kzer-Za saying "Accept this or Die!").. Instead, i'd like to spark some more activity about a sequel. Also, I thought that people were slowly getting sick of the SC3 races, and the "new races" that were to be part of a sequel (think Timewarp plot.. While there are some nice ideas floating around over there, I do not think everyone likes new races as much as the writers themselves do. Maybe that's where the SC3 guys went wrong?)... There are still a few "untalked to" races, though, but they already existed. Think Keel-Verezy, etc...


# Quick Setting Details (about dead/not-dead races, etc.)

*Ilwrath dead? NO! (see below)
*Thraddash dead? NO! (see below)
*Ur-Quan Kzer-Za/Kohr-Ah dead? NO! (see below)
*Pkunk and Yehat have the same SoI, which is pretty large, and they both "live" there (both their ships are there).. Pkunk rank less in numbers, though...
*The Spathi are BACK. (see below)
*NO NEW RACES!!!!! However, some of the "old", minor non-SC2 races that were slaveshielded "out of the quadrant" by the Ur-Quan have small Spheres of Influence now, and you can actually talk to them, and have fights, too, etc.. They're not nessecarily NEW races, but they ARE new to the player.
--Possible races: Androsynth, Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, Faz, Keel-Verezy, (Mael-Num), (Precursors), ("They"), Taalo.
--Races that are "dead" but not in SC2:  (Dnyarri), Androsynth, (Precursors), Algolites, Burvixese, Chenjesu, Drall, Dramya, Gg, Yuli, Yuptar, Zebranky.

About the non-deaths of aliens: they're not dead, no.. But they ain't living either.. The Ilwrath and Thraddash have SoI's that are.. well. TINY (think Arilou-sized, or even smaller).. A few of their race survived, and they're SLOWLY regaining their population numbers.. Throughout the game, you'll see their SoI's expand...  Also, the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za have a ZFP-sized SoI somewhere in their old SoI.. The Kohr-Ah have an SoI that's of the same size, just next to the Kzer-Za's one. Their SoI's do NOT lie near the remains (dust) of the Sa-Matra. That place is secured by an Alliance party... The Ur-Quan species, too, will slowly get a larger SoI. Also, Chmmr forces have an extra SoI that completely overshadows Kzer-Za/Kohr-Ah SoIs..

Actually, it's an Alliance SoI: they're sometimes being backed up by other Alliance races (you'll see a few Cruisers flying around, etc). The name of this SoI, is therefore, "Alliance Peacekeeping Party", or something along those lines... Mostly Chmmr forces still, though... Why, you ask, are these Alliance dudes here, and why didn't they just kill the Ur-Quan? It's not something they'd do, really, even when the Ur-Quan were REALLY evil. This way, the Ur-Quan will still live, but they're closely monitored by Alliance forces.. If they do ANYTHING illegal, they'll be punished. The size of this Alliance force decreases overtime, until certain stuff happen that allow it to get larger/smaller (people leaving back for home/joining
in).. More on that later.. This is just the settingstuff, after all...

Also, about the spathi being back: their slaveshield got cracked by the Chmmr (imagine the horror in the eyes of the Spathi! Tongue), which are now also camping near Spathi homeworlds, to protect them from stuff happening.. In fact, the cracking of the shield was a mistake.. More on that later..

About the SoI's of "dead" races (Thraddash/Ilwrath): WHY? Well, it's pretty hard to COMPLETELY kill an alien race, right? Some must have survived, and settled near their old homeworld...

The starmap is also enlarged. Maybe the UQM quadrant takes up 30% or so of the new starmap (where the UQM quadrant lies in the lower left corner of the new starmap). So yes, you'd be able to visit the old races again. No more new homeworlds, unless someone's old one has been wiped out, har har har...
To allow new mining minerals, the Planet Lander MK II will be equipped with a driller. This will make you able to get more minerals from far beneath the surface. Unfortunately, it WILL take a while to drill. So don't drill in a bad neighborhood!

Oh, and ofcourse some of the lifeforms on planets reproduced...

# What happened after...

Well, so, you basically have the Sa-matra, that exploded, leaving a nice ring orbiting Delta Crateris V (and some nice burn spots on the planet's surface).. Immediately after the event, Alliance forces began securing the areas around Delta Crateris, while most of the Chmmr fleet began destroying Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts and Marauders which were supposedly trying to escape the area, hoping to establish a new colony somewhere far, far away... The battles were fierce, and both sides lost a considerable ammount of ships and crew...

Meanwhile, Earth's slaveshield was cracked by the Chmmr. Leaving a few Avatars behind, they soon left to crack the "slave"-shield around Spathiwa. They were unable to contact the Spathi on the surface (blame them for giving away that Hyperwave 'Caster!), but they thought that the Spathi would appreciate their doings, anyways. While they were cracking the shield, Spathi all over the surface ran towards the safety of their homes, fearing that The Ultimate Evil had arrived, or maybe even the Ur-Quan, to punish them for cowering out of the Hierarchy... The Chmmr -who soon noticed their mistake- left another small defensive force back at Spathiwa, to protect the Spathi -who were now again free, and decided that they would help the Alliance with their further doings- from any harm.

Zelnick decided to lay low for a while, living part-time on both Gaia and Earth, to recover from his wounds and memories... And ofcourse to have "some fun" with Talana...

Few years and millions of casualties later (most on Ur-Quan side), the Chmmr announced a council for all the leaders of both the old Hierarchy races, and the Alliance races at the Chmmr homeworld: Procyon II. There, the future of the quadrant was to be decided... The remaining Ur-Quan forces were to release all of their slaves immediately, and retire back to their new homeworlds: **((ALPHA LENTILIS))** and **((BETA CANCRI))** ((NOTE TO SELF: CHECK OUT THOSE STARS AND FIND A SUITABLE PLANET)).. Incidentally, these homeworlds have a lot of "free hyperspace room" next to them, which makes for an easier quarantining mission.

A few years later (2163?), the Chmmr sent out an exploration party (read: large fleet) to explore the Coreward area (the area the Rainbow worlds are pointing at).

<<MORE STUFF THAT HAPPENS HERE, BUT THIS IS MOSTLY "INTERESTING HISTORY" OR SOMETHING? ANYONE GOT SOME IDEAS? PLEASE MAKE IT SOMEHOW REASONABLE FOR A RACE TO DO THAT. LIKE DON'T BOTHER COMING UP WITH YEHAT DECIDING TO ATTACK SHOFIXTI FOR.. UUUH.. REPRODUCING TO FAST OR SOMETHING... Tongue>>

At around 2165, a distress call was heard from a coreward system. Zelnick (who else?) got assigned a Cruiser, the "Tobermoon II", and a small fleet (consisting of one Avatar, a few Terminators, and a few ships of all other Alliance), to investigate... Here's when the game starts..




# Some general ideas I had that I didn't work out yet, or that just needed a place to go for the heck of it and I was too lazy to write 'em up.. Don't take them too seriously yet, but if you've got any ideas, feel free to speak!

-Chmmr as evil guys (bad and good Chmmr? Something weird happened to the Chmmr exploration fleet? Why? Chmmr are AND powerful, AND the process went way too fast, AND they were just "too nice to be true".. Would make a nice enemy.. )
-Orz as evil guys (in both Hyperspace and their own playground. Why? Because FF and PR3 would probably want this. Orz were pretty damn weird and somehow evil, after all..)
-Return of the Taalo? In Orz Playground?
-Return of the Brown Ur-Quan? Umgah do this genetic stuff? Maybe when Ur-Quan see Taalo?
-Multiple ways of killing evil guys? Either wipe them out with method A (while getting race #1 mad at you), or wipe them out with method B (while getting race #2 mad at you)? Maybe wipe out Bad Chmmr by returning the Brown Ur-Quan, but with that you need to invade Orz playground and get the Orz mad at you?
-Chat with some of your fleet guys when something happens/something is investigated (Think: a Chmmr going mad when he sees a broken Avatar flying around in space with burn marks on it, or something.. Gives your "fleetmates" a face...)
-Find out about the Mark II Precursor Starship while on one of your missions
« Last Edit: November 02, 2005, 08:10:00 pm by Megagun » Logged
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2005, 12:09:37 am »

"The remaining Ur-Quan forces were to release all of their slaves immediately, and retire back to their new homeworlds"

If the original UQ homeworld is close to "this area of space," shouldn't it be in the new enlarged map someplace (any brown non-GMO pillars there)?


"-Chmmr as evil guys (bad and good Chmmr? Something weird happened to the Chmmr exploration fleet? Why? Chmmr are AND powerful, AND the process went way too fast, AND they were just "too nice to be true".. Would make a nice enemy.. )"

The (evil) creators of the Mrnmmrhm return and find that they have control of the hybrid Chmmr, maybe?


"-Orz as evil guys (in both Hyperspace and their own playground. Why? Because FF and PR3 would probably want this. Orz were pretty damn weird and somehow evil, after all..)"

This gets my vote. Give the Orz their own hierarchy of *finger* thralls (including precursors maybe! This would explain the mystery of their disappearance.)


"-Return of the Taalo? In Orz Playground?
-Return of the Brown Ur-Quan? Umgah do this genetic stuff? Maybe when Ur-Quan see Taalo?"

Sounds like it might be interesting.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2005, 08:46:55 pm »

I don't want to be a jerk, but writing an outline of a plot and asking people to make a whole game out of it is likely to be even less well-received than the usual "cool idea for a UQM feature that y'all should implement" requests.

Even so...

Star Control 3 - the REAL sequel - SC3r plot #690340, unless I missed a few.. Contact me if that is the case.. Tongue
v0.2 - needs more stuff to be explained, etc. This is just a draft! Not even complete yet!
----------------------------------------------------

*snip*

 Instead, i'd like to spark some more activity about a sequel. Also, I thought that people were slowly getting sick of the SC3 races, and the "new races" that were to be part of a sequel (think Timewarp plot.. While there are some nice ideas floating around over there, I do not think everyone likes new races as much as the writers themselves do. Maybe that's where the SC3 guys went wrong?)... There are still a few "untalked to" races, though, but they already existed. Think Keel-Verezy, etc...

I'd actually rather see interesting new races than see attempts to create an identity for "mystery" races like the Keel-Verezy. Remember that the majority of the SC2 races were "new" races in SC2, and that TFB wasn't afraid to do serious violence to the situation that existed in SC1 -- right up to the point of having the bad guys win the war! -- in order to make SC2 interesting.

Quote
# Quick Setting Details (about dead/not-dead races, etc.)

*Ilwrath dead? NO! (see below)
*Thraddash dead? NO! (see below)
*Ur-Quan Kzer-Za/Kohr-Ah dead? NO! (see below)

I'd actually prefer if the Ilwrath and Thraddash were dead, if only because most treatments I've seen of their future are kind of hokey. (I mean, they're both evil and warlike and kill things. It makes it really easy to use them as uninteresting thugs.)

I don't think anyone ever thought that the Ur-Quan would be extinct at the end of SC2. Irrelevant, maybe, but not extinct.

Quote
*Pkunk and Yehat have the same SoI, which is pretty large, and they both "live" there (both their ships are there).. Pkunk rank less in numbers, though...

This is basically what I think everyone imagined for the Pkunk/Yehat.

Quote
*The Spathi are BACK. (see below)
*NO NEW RACES!!!!! However, some of the "old", minor non-SC2 races that were slaveshielded "out of the quadrant" by the Ur-Quan have small Spheres of Influence now, and you can actually talk to them, and have fights, too, etc.. They're not nessecarily NEW races, but they ARE new to the player.
--Possible races: Androsynth, Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, Faz, Keel-Verezy, (Mael-Num), (Precursors), ("They"), Taalo.
--Races that are "dead" but not in SC2:  (Dnyarri), Androsynth, (Precursors), Algolites, Burvixese, Chenjesu, Drall, Dramya, Gg, Yuli, Yuptar, Zebranky.

See... it makes more sense that there should be random races out there that you haven't met yet than that, for instance, there should randomly be un-Processed Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm out there, or that you'll randomly run into the Faz. (Though I do like the Faz = Utwig theory I've heard.)

Mael-Num are Melnorme, by the way. That's fairly strongly established.

Quote
About the non-deaths of aliens: they're not dead, no.. But they ain't living either.. The Ilwrath and Thraddash have SoI's that are.. well. TINY (think Arilou-sized, or even smaller).. A few of their race survived, and they're SLOWLY regaining their population numbers.. Throughout the game, you'll see their SoI's expand...  Also, the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za have a ZFP-sized SoI somewhere in their old SoI.. The Kohr-Ah have an SoI that's of the same size, just next to the Kzer-Za's one. Their SoI's do NOT lie near the remains (dust) of the Sa-Matra. That place is secured by an Alliance party... The Ur-Quan species, too, will slowly get a larger SoI. Also, Chmmr forces have an extra SoI that completely overshadows Kzer-Za/Kohr-Ah SoIs..

No flight to the Magellanic Clouds? I like that better than the Ur-Quan randomly hanging around inside the Doctrinal War battleground. They were only their to have their fight in the first place -- they'd be rather foolish to just stick around after seeing the Sa-Matra destroyed and taking the full brunt of the Chmmr's forces.

But thinking in terms of Sphere of Influence is problematic anyway. I'd really prefer a sequel that didn't do that but actually charted what species control which specific star systems and where the species' actual fleets are at any given time.

Quote
Actually, it's an Alliance SoI: they're sometimes being backed up by other Alliance races (you'll see a few Cruisers flying around, etc). The name of this SoI, is therefore, "Alliance Peacekeeping Party", or something along those lines... Mostly Chmmr forces still, though... Why, you ask, are these Alliance dudes here, and why didn't they just kill the Ur-Quan? It's not something they'd do, really, even when the Ur-Quan were REALLY evil. This way, the Ur-Quan will still live, but they're closely monitored by Alliance forces.. If they do ANYTHING illegal, they'll be punished. The size of this Alliance force decreases overtime, until certain stuff happen that allow it to get larger/smaller (people leaving back for home/joining
in).. More on that later.. This is just the settingstuff, after all...

Ugh. No. Allowing the Ur-Quan to have their own little area of space to do whatever the hell they feel like in -- with their own ships and Starbases and whatnot -- is just asking to be the victim of a massive surprise attack.

The Alliance may not hold with genocide, but massive invasion, conquest and internment of the Ur-Quan population, followed by long-term, enforced rehabilitation, is very much their style in a case like this -- in fact, it's the *only* sane thing to do. If they're capable of continuing the war at this point they'd be fools not to press on until complete victory, after they've seen what the Ur-Quan are capable of.

Quote
Also, about the spathi being back: their slaveshield got cracked by the Chmmr (imagine the horror in the eyes of the Spathi! Tongue), which are now also camping near Spathi homeworlds, to protect them from stuff happening.. In fact, the cracking of the shield was a mistake.. More on that later..

I have no objection to this. It's frankly what I would expect from any sequel -- the Spathi are too popular to shelve.

Quote
About the SoI's of "dead" races (Thraddash/Ilwrath): WHY? Well, it's pretty hard to COMPLETELY kill an alien race, right? Some must have survived, and settled near their old homeworld...

No... why should it be pretty hard? The Kohr-Ah do it all the time. The Thraddash *told* you they have enough nuclear missiles to wipe off all life from the surface of their homeworld -- I can easily picture the Ilwrath doing a saturation bombardment of the Thraddash homeworld and the Thraddash turning around and launching some kind of HyperSpace-based attack that targeted and destroyed all life around the Eye of Dogar.

Sure, there might have been ships that escaped the final conflagration, but the attitude of both races would very much lead them to sacrifice themselves if possible in the final battle. And, anyways, I doubt Ilwrath or Thraddash vessels are like Shofixti Scouts, meant for long-term self-sufficient survival the way Tanaka's ship was. Without homeworlds they'd likely starve to death and die.

Quote
The starmap is also enlarged. Maybe the UQM quadrant takes up 30% or so of the new starmap (where the UQM quadrant lies in the lower left corner of the new starmap). So yes, you'd be able to visit the old races again. No more new homeworlds, unless someone's old one has been wiped out, har har har...
To allow new mining minerals, the Planet Lander MK II will be equipped with a driller. This will make you able to get more minerals from far beneath the surface. Unfortunately, it WILL take a while to drill. So don't drill in a bad neighborhood!

Oh, and ofcourse some of the lifeforms on planets reproduced...

This is all reasonable. I'd actually like a mining subgame that was deeper even than simply incorporating vertical movement. Something where the world felt like the surface of the world and not just a map.

Quote
# What happened after...

Well, so, you basically have the Sa-matra, that exploded, leaving a nice ring orbiting Delta Crateris V (and some nice burn spots on the planet's surface).. Immediately after the event, Alliance forces began securing the areas around Delta Crateris, while most of the Chmmr fleet began destroying Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts and Marauders which were supposedly trying to escape the area, hoping to establish a new colony somewhere far, far away... The battles were fierce, and both sides lost a considerable ammount of ships and crew...

Meanwhile, Earth's slaveshield was cracked by the Chmmr. Leaving a few Avatars behind, they soon left to crack the "slave"-shield around Spathiwa. They were unable to contact the Spathi on the surface (blame them for giving away that Hyperwave 'Caster!), but they thought that the Spathi would appreciate their doings, anyways. While they were cracking the shield, Spathi all over the surface ran towards the safety of their homes, fearing that The Ultimate Evil had arrived, or maybe even the Ur-Quan, to punish them for cowering out of the Hierarchy... The Chmmr -who soon noticed their mistake- left another small defensive force back at Spathiwa, to protect the Spathi -who were now again free, and decided that they would help the Alliance with their further doings- from any harm.

Why do the Spathi acquiesce so easily? Why don't they demand that the shield be reinstated? They seemed really in love with that thing, and they spent a lot of time making it.

Quote
Zelnick decided to lay low for a while, living part-time on both Gaia and Earth, to recover from his wounds and memories... And ofcourse to have "some fun" with Talana...

Few years and millions of casualties later (most on Ur-Quan side), the Chmmr announced a council for all the leaders of both the old Hierarchy races, and the Alliance races at the Chmmr homeworld: Procyon II. There, the future of the quadrant was to be decided... The remaining Ur-Quan forces were to release all of their slaves immediately, and retire back to their new homeworlds: **((ALPHA LENTILIS))** and **((BETA CANCRI))** ((NOTE TO SELF: CHECK OUT THOSE STARS AND FIND A SUITABLE PLANET)).. Incidentally, these homeworlds have a lot of "free hyperspace room" next to them, which makes for an easier quarantining mission.

Enh, okay, I might buy it. I still think allowing the Ur-Quan to have their own civilization, even with boundaries drawn around it, is tantamount to suicide.

Quote
A few years later (2163?), the Chmmr sent out an exploration party (read: large fleet) to explore the Coreward area (the area the Rainbow worlds are pointing at).

<<MORE STUFF THAT HAPPENS HERE, BUT THIS IS MOSTLY "INTERESTING HISTORY" OR SOMETHING? ANYONE GOT SOME IDEAS? PLEASE MAKE IT SOMEHOW REASONABLE FOR A RACE TO DO THAT. LIKE DON'T BOTHER COMING UP WITH YEHAT DECIDING TO ATTACK SHOFIXTI FOR.. UUUH.. REPRODUCING TO FAST OR SOMETHING... Tongue>>

At around 2165, a distress call was heard from a coreward system. Zelnick (who else?) got assigned a Cruiser, the "Tobermoon II", and a small fleet (consisting of one Avatar, a few Terminators, and a few ships of all other Alliance), to investigate... Here's when the game starts..

No Mark II?

I mean, the Mark II was pretty cool. Why does the Mark II never get any love? It was the one hook we absolutely did have as a promise for the sequel.

Quote
# Some general ideas I had that I didn't work out yet, or that just needed a place to go for the heck of it and I was too lazy to write 'em up.. Don't take them too seriously yet, but if you've got any ideas, feel free to speak!

-Chmmr as evil guys (bad and good Chmmr? Something weird happened to the Chmmr exploration fleet? Why? Chmmr are AND powerful, AND the process went way too fast, AND they were just "too nice to be true".. Would make a nice enemy.. )

Quite a common idea, that was actually used in SC3.

Quote
-Orz as evil guys (in both Hyperspace and their own playground. Why? Because FF and PR3 would probably want this. Orz were pretty damn weird and somehow evil, after all..)
-Return of the Taalo? In Orz Playground?

All de rigeur.

Quote
-Return of the Brown Ur-Quan? Umgah do this genetic stuff? Maybe when Ur-Quan see Taalo?

Damn it, why is it that because a race was mentioned in the game people have to see it made flesh? What's so damn cool about re-creating the Brown Ur-Quan? I can't see anything cool about it myself. For crying out loud. It's not like making them brown again undoes all the changes to their culture or the psychological trauma of the past 20,000 years or whatever.

Quote
-Multiple ways of killing evil guys? Either wipe them out with method A (while getting race #1 mad at you), or wipe them out with method B (while getting race #2 mad at you)? Maybe wipe out Bad Chmmr by returning the Brown Ur-Quan, but with that you need to invade Orz playground and get the Orz mad at you?

This is a standard way to keep the story moving, yes.

Quote
-Chat with some of your fleet guys when something happens/something is investigated (Think: a Chmmr going mad when he sees a broken Avatar flying around in space with burn marks on it, or something.. Gives your "fleetmates" a face...)
-Find out about the Mark II Precursor Starship while on one of your missions

Not bad ideas overall. I would much rather start with the Mark II than Tobermoon II, though.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2005, 10:21:50 pm »

How the Mark II was FOUND was another story... I'd agree, don't start with it.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2005, 10:33:59 pm »

Like the idea. And about the Mark II, what if the ship is damaged, stolen, undergoing refitting, waste disposal system overhaul (more luxurious toilets! Grin) whatever at the beginning of the game so you can't have it until later? Honestly, the Vindicator was allready one mean fighting machine even if it wasn't a warship. If the wiki is right, then the Mark II would simply plow over every single known ship (excluding Sa-matra and any new ships you might come up with) and squash them like a bug, it would completely take away the challenge of combat.
(okay, maybe I shouldn't jump to conclusions simply by reading the word "Cruiser" for the Mark II and "Tug" for the Vindicator)

(oops, looks like Death 999 beat me to it. So if I understand, the Mark II isn't there at that part of the timeline? Oh well, maybe the Tobermoon II is of a new type with luxurious toilets. And they malfunction all the time, so Scotty is kinda busy. And the Melnorme will be more than willing to sell air refreshers, for a modest fee off course. Forget it, stupid idea anyway. The Tobermoon is just a normal run of the mill cruiser. Why they don't upgrade those things is beyond me, but I'm sure Hayes knows what he's doing.)

And here’s another idea I came up with while typing this. The Umgah are up to their tricks again and pick up a few Spathi out of under the nose of the Chmmr, though not without losses. (Drones exploding in big laser. Har har har! Cheesy) Using their insane knowledge of genetics, they take away the Spathi’s fear genes and set them loose on Spathiwa. (don’t ask, I know it’s cultural, but tweaking the instincts or something can do wonders.)

But the new Spathi can’t live among their cowardly brethren and steal a few Eluders. And so, the allmighty Black Spathi squadron is born. Seriously, I don’t have a clue what they should do, but pop up all of a sudden to help you out of a sticky situtation, or better, give a heroic speech, charge into a fleet of enemy ships and then getting scared like normal Spathi. (hey, no one said that those Umgah were perfect.)

,,We the Black Spathi Squadron shall crush the hulls of your starships and scatter your atoms in the solarwinds! Fear uss! CHARGE!!!” (The enemy fleet fires their first shots) ,,Oh no! Those are real guns! MOMMY! I’M SCARED!!!!” (usual Spathi mass panicking)

Hmm, maybe it wasn’t such a good idea after all. I guess I should leave this stuff to the pros. Embarrassed Good luck though.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2005, 05:13:10 am »

Here is my idea for the fate of the Ur-Quans...
A fairly major, but not SC-I scale, war is fought to vanquish the creepy besheathed caterpillars.  When the Kzer-Za's defeat is clear, they join the Alliance to quash the remaining, still genocidal, Kohr-Ah.  The Kohr-Ah retreat coreward (and off of at least the known bits of the map).
The Chmmr believe that the green Ur-Quan's predatory instincts can be harnessed as they were in the Sentient Mileau of old -- indeed, genetic modification in this technician caste has made them superior for the task.
The Ur-Quan dreadnought fleet is retooled into scout vessels (maybe not literally retooled, but they've got obviously recycled parts... maybe build it around a warp pod).
The scouts head coreward and trouble ensues...
But no surprise attack, I'll leave that in a less expected place!
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2005, 07:28:29 am »

What if you start by this: for some reason you find out that the Chmmr have made more changes to the vindicator than just installing the bomg. They moved the controlling AI computer into a capsule that was meant to fly to the Chmmr when you started towards your rescue.

(1st hint towards some less than good Chmmr).

You find out by accident (because the Zoq-Fot-Piq find the capsule and hide it from the Chmmr to show it to you).
You then confront the Chmmr, but they simply don't answer any question to this topic. They simply state things like "The weather is good today. That will keep me nurtured.".
Humankind tries to refit the AI to the Unzervalt factory, and the AI starts speaking to you again and proposes to build a new ship, with improved parts (improved by Melnorme technology learned during SC2). The AI calls it Mark I.
But - it needs loads of minerals.

You have to ask your allies (those you have freed) to bring large quantities of minerals to Unzervalt. Most will ask you some tasks to do (like repairing the Ultron). Just mining will never bring enough material. You can still do it, because some precious materials just aren't brought in quantities sufficient.

But the Chmmr tell you not to build a new Starship and try to bring up some Alliance members against you (and the Spathi oblige the Chmmr - of course. You have just a fleet of no special ships, all ordinary Tobermoons, Eluders and the like, and the Chmmr have a giant mass of Avatars.).

And the Orz tell you *happy time* for *campers* is *near*.

...

Later in the game, you'll need the Mark I (or however you call it) from the factory to fight against the Super-Duper-Enemy-Starship (either an Orz or a Chmmr Starship, maybe even a combined one, a super-giant howitzer space station spawning Chmmr Avatars and Orz Nemesis').
General ideas in between: you find out that the Orz have influenced The Process, and thus gained a little control over the Chmmr. And the Chmmr help the Orz constructing something in the vulpeculae systems (for some reason you see the other Vulpeculae stars move towards Alpha Vulpeculae and that especially Alpha Vulpeculae gets brighter and brighter. Plus the region around Alpha Vulpeculae gets redder and redder (like a circle growing with time).
You cannot really find out what happens (the Orz and Chmmr won't let you near and HyperSpace seems to stop working around the Vulpeculae constellation), but your mission is to stop whatever is happening there.



And in the ending slide show your grand children ask you how you found the Mark II.
That, my children, is a complete different story....



Just had some ideas, didn't want them to get lost. So here they are. Do with them what you like.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2005, 08:07:36 am »

Overall nice, but I'd do away with Zelnick.
It's no fun to start the game as a savior of the universe. The main character should be a young captain, slowly bulding his prestige. The fleet at the beginning of the game should be under the command of Chmmr, but you'd get more authority as the plot advances.

As for Zelnick... have him go renegade.
Let's say he saw that  something terribly wrong is about to happen, but no one listened to him. So he and Talana hijacked one ship or another and went somewhere far far away.
You'd meet him a few times, he'd keep escaping, maybe there'd be a few friendly skirmishes, but in the end you'd cooperate to save the universe again.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2005, 12:41:15 pm »

I have little time as I write this, and will probably comment on everything else said here later on..

But about the Mark II: I forgot that. Anyways, wouldn't it be more fun that you start with the Tobermoon II, and then *eventually* find out about the Mark II? Gives a more interesting "you're not the best guy in the universe" at the start (since your ship pretty much sucks)... Maybe the Chmmr Distress call, and all other stuff around that (like the evilness), was actually because of the Precursor vessel? I can see some Chmmr wondering (argueing? probably not..) what they should do with it, really...

Anyways...

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I don't want to be a jerk, but writing an outline of a plot and asking people to make a whole game out of it is likely to be even less well-received than the usual "cool idea for a UQM feature that y'all should implement" requests.
First of all, I just wanted to get a plot done. If everyone (or most people) agreed with a certain plot, I'd help in the creation of a full game according to that plot..
Also, I had way more ideas on it, but I was asking for other people to comment on what I had written up so far. I just needed comments and thoughts before I thought I was able to continue from where I left... Also, do you really think that I just "wrote up a plot and asked other people to make a game out of it"? I think I wrote up quite a lot already... I just needed some comments on it, because hell no I'm not writing 1000 lines of text only to get not much interest on it from other people... And if this helps you a bit, too: I was working on other projects. Bugs are evil.

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I'd actually rather see interesting new races than see attempts to create an identity for "mystery" races like the Keel-Verezy. Remember that the majority of the SC2 races were "new" races in SC2, and that TFB wasn't afraid to do serious violence to the situation that existed in SC1 -- right up to the point of having the bad guys win the war! -- in order to make SC2 interesting.

There is actually quite a lot known about the Keel-Verezy. At least their outline: they might have very damn good cloaking technology (check the Melnorme text: they say that "you nearly collided with a Keel-Verezy") or something else which renders them unnoticable.. Same goes for the other races: their outline might be a bit known, and a lot of their history certainly is... I think it's better to create an identity for those (and thus give the player at least SOME familiarity over them) than to create new races. In my opinion, everyone wants to make their races too special, too interesting, and only THEY want to have total control over it, and are probably the only ones that show interest to that race. Example? I wrote up a race of my own one day, thought it was great, but apparantly, others didn't think so... Not having new races also allows us to develop on the existing foundation of "old" races...

Anyone here thinks that new races are a must for a new Star Control game? I myself wouldn't mind it too much, but I fear a new Star Control game might --WITH new races-- go way too far out of hand, Timewarp style..

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I'd actually prefer if the Ilwrath and Thraddash were dead, if only because most treatments I've seen of their future are kind of hokey. (I mean, they're both evil and warlike and kill things. It makes it really easy to use them as uninteresting thugs.)
The thing that made the Ur-Quan interesting, was their whole doctrine, and whatever they believed. They were totally evil, yet they still had another, different side, which you got to find out. So "evil and warlike" can definitively give you a good and interesting race, with a nice plot! Would you think that -if they got a good plot- they would be allowed to not be dead?

Anyways, In my opinion, the Thraddash and Ilwrath never got much development as a species. They were basically "evil", with the Thraddash being "fun and evil". Now imagine what they would be like if almost their whole race got wiped out, and their gods (at least for the Ilwrath) went "missing".. They change..

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See... it makes more sense that there should be random races out there that you haven't met yet than that, for instance, there should randomly be un-Processed Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm out there, or that you'll randomly run into the Faz. (Though I do like the Faz = Utwig theory I've heard.)
Well.. You've somewhat got a point there, I guess...

Quote
No flight to the Magellanic Clouds? I like that better than the Ur-Quan randomly hanging around inside the Doctrinal War battleground. They were only their to have their fight in the first place -- they'd be rather foolish to just stick around after seeing the Sa-Matra destroyed and taking the full brunt of the Chmmr's forces.
Think Kzer-Za style.. They just lost a war, and now they're being attacked.. It's not their *style* to Spathi their way out of something. If it was their *style* to do that, they would certainly have sent their Battle Thralls to attack the Kohr-Ah.. Also, they themselves gave other races an option when they conquered them. Enslavement or Fight with them. That proves that they do believe in "if you lose a war, you're being left as a pet of the winners of that war". In this case, the Chmmr/Alliance won the war, and they lost it... They would likely admit their defeat, as they did with the loss of the Doctrinal Conflict..
...either that, or there's a hole in this theory...
And if you *really* want a lame way to keep the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za there, just let the Chmmr surround their whole SoI.
Hmm. A little quote from the Ur-Quan:
Quote
Human? You are a fool! Why are you still here?
Flee!... before the Kohr-Ah find you!

Why should we run away?
Because you are doomed if you remain here!
Our Doctrinal War is over. We, the Kzer-Za, have lost.
RUN HUMAN!
Because if you do not run -- do not find somewhere to hide and nurture your species
you are extinct, and we, who have tried to protect you
are now powerless to stop the killing frenzy of the Kohr-Ah.
Looks as if they accept their loss of the war, right? Maybe because that is because it's a war between Ur-Quan species, but still, it looks as if they surely would accept a defeat and go with whatever their "masters" say... At least the Kzer-Za species, right?


Quote
But thinking in terms of Sphere of Influence is problematic anyway. I'd really prefer a sequel that didn't do that but actually charted what species control which specific star systems and where the species' actual fleets are at any given time.
Hmm.. That makes sense.. I can go with that one...

Quote
Ugh. No. Allowing the Ur-Quan to have their own little area of space to do whatever the hell they feel like in -- with their own ships and Starbases and whatnot -- is just asking to be the victim of a massive surprise attack.

The Alliance may not hold with genocide, but massive invasion, conquest and internment of the Ur-Quan population, followed by long-term, enforced rehabilitation, is very much their style in a case like this -- in fact, it's the *only* sane thing to do. If they're capable of continuing the war at this point they'd be fools not to press on until complete victory, after they've seen what the Ur-Quan are capable of.
True, but read what I wrote above... Besides, the Alliance would very likely keep in close contact with Ur-Quan actions, right? And with Chmmr forces checking the area on various intervals....

Quote
No... why should it be pretty hard? The Kohr-Ah do it all the time. The Thraddash *told* you they have enough nuclear missiles to wipe off all life from the surface of their homeworld -- I can easily picture the Ilwrath doing a saturation bombardment of the Thraddash homeworld and the Thraddash turning around and launching some kind of HyperSpace-based attack that targeted and destroyed all life around the Eye of Dogar.

Sure, there might have been ships that escaped the final conflagration, but the attitude of both races would very much lead them to sacrifice themselves if possible in the final battle. And, anyways, I doubt Ilwrath or Thraddash vessels are like Shofixti Scouts, meant for long-term self-sufficient survival the way Tanaka's ship was. Without homeworlds they'd likely starve to death and die.
You've got a point there, but I bet that even the dumb Thraddash would not go in for a last-minute, one-shipped "reveeenge!" attack, and even they would prefer a  resettlement, I guess....

Quote
Why do the Spathi acquiesce so easily? Why don't they demand that the shield be reinstated? They seemed really in love with that thing, and they spent a lot of time making it.
Think about it.. What would you, or any Spathi rather be: locked up and pretty damn safe, or free and safe? Besides, the Earthlings are sort of their heroes, and I bet even they have this liiitle bit of honour left...

Quote
Damn it, why is it that because a race was mentioned in the game people have to see it made flesh? What's so damn cool about re-creating the Brown Ur-Quan? I can't see anything cool about it myself. For crying out loud. It's not like making them brown again undoes all the changes to their culture or the psychological trauma of the past 20,000 years or whatever.
Eep. Looks as if I overlooked their culture part... Anyways, it was just an idea for people to build on/scrap.. Tongue


I also like the Umgah-Spathi idea, Jack_cloudy.. Would be a nice Umgah Prank, and would build upon the Black Spathi guys.. But instead of having it happen *now*, have it happen *in the past*, or maybe even *having it still happening*...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 04:01:35 pm by Megagun » Logged
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2005, 04:18:35 pm »

"Anyone here thinks that new races are a must for a new Star Control game? I myself wouldn't mind it too much, but I fear a new Star Control game might --WITH new races-- go way too far out of hand, Timewarp style.."

No, I don't think new races are a must. I think you should only add new races if they are designed by the plot writers of SC2, otherwise you will be opening a big can of worms.


"Eep. Looks as if I overlooked their culture part... Anyways, it was just an idea for people to build on/scrap.."

Dont recreate the original UQ, just have some of them hanging out in some part of the expanded starmap, most likely their original homeworld, which they returned to after the war with the help of the Taalo.


BTW, instead of expanding the starmap even further away from Sol, why don't you just expand it downspin and outward?
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2005, 05:41:19 pm »

Just a comment on a few things:

I have little time as I write this, and will probably comment on everything else said here later on..
There is actually quite a lot known about the Keel-Verezy. At least their outline: they might have very damn good cloaking technology (check the Melnorme text: they say that "you nearly collided with a Keel-Verezy") or something else which renders them unnoticable.. Same goes for the other races: their outline might be a bit known, and a lot of their history certainly is... I think it's better to create an identity for those (and thus give the player at least SOME familiarity over them) than to create new races. In my opinion, everyone wants to make their races too special, too interesting, and only THEY want to have total control over it, and are probably the only ones that show interest to that race. Example? I wrote up a race of my own one day, thought it was great, but apparantly, others didn't think so... Not having new races also allows us to develop on the existing foundation of "old" races...

Okay, but if you create a Keel-Verezy race that's not much better than creating an all-new race. In fact, it's worse, because you're still spinning most of the details of the race out of whole cloth while at the same time undermining what *was* cool about the Keel-Verezy in SC2 -- their mysterious nature. The cool factor was that it was creepy for the Melnorme to mention that they existed and then refuse to say any more because it would "...disturb" you, to give no explanation of why you almost crashed into their vessel ("Oh. Never mind.") or to explain what pronouns like "he/she/they" mean.

If you were to go in and explain all that, it'd have to be *really* damn good, because otherwise you just ruined one of the cool unexplained patches in the SC2 universe for nothing.

Along these general lines -- some mysteries are cool because they're mysteries. Having a fully fleshed out Melnorme culture and civilization would, I think, suck. Giving a long-winded and fully explained backstory for the Arilou would suck. Even if the Orz play a bigger *role* in the sequel, actually explaining, in detail, with lots of pseudoscientific terms, where the Orz came from and what their motivations are and how their powers work, would suck.

The worst impulse in fanfiction is to, rather than create something genuinely new and interesting, first try to flesh out everything in the original that the creators *deliberately* left shadowy and vague. Which is always, in my opinion, a mistake.

New races are a good thing -- if there aren't new races, the feeling of expansive empty space, of exploration, of discovery from the original is completely gone. No new races could also be a good thing, if you really wanted to focus deeply on the conflicts and development of a few preexisting races from SC2. But the in-between of new races that have the same name as cameo races from SC2 is a very bad thing.

What people don't seem to get is that SC2 was good because you had so little idea of what to expect, because it felt like you were wandering in uncharted space and might stumble upon *anything*.

Quote
Anyone here thinks that new races are a must for a new Star Control game? I myself wouldn't mind it too much, but I fear a new Star Control game might --WITH new races-- go way too far out of hand, Timewarp style..

Just because I'm not a huge fan of Timewarp's plot doesn't mean I think it's "out of hand". A Timewarp-like thing is the only reasonable way to do an SC2 sequel -- new ships, new voices, new monsters. Otherwise you might as well just play SC2 again.

Quote
Quote
I'd actually prefer if the Ilwrath and Thraddash were dead, if only because most treatments I've seen of their future are kind of hokey. (I mean, they're both evil and warlike and kill things. It makes it really easy to use them as uninteresting thugs.)
The thing that made the Ur-Quan interesting, was their whole doctrine, and whatever they believed. They were totally evil, yet they still had another, different side, which you got to find out. So "evil and warlike" can definitively give you a good and interesting race, with a nice plot! Would you think that -if they got a good plot- they would be allowed to not be dead?
Quote

You'd have to uncover really interesting secrets about those two races for it to be worth giving up the time and space to them that might otherwise be used on new races. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that their being dead might be more interesting than their being alive and rehashing the same roles. For that reason I fully support TFB's decision to kill off all the Androsynth from SC1. (Remember that SC2 *itself* is a sequel and might serve as a model for good things one ought to do with a sequel.)

Quote
No flight to the Magellanic Clouds? I like that better than the Ur-Quan randomly hanging around inside the Doctrinal War battleground. They were only their to have their fight in the first place -- they'd be rather foolish to just stick around after seeing the Sa-Matra destroyed and taking the full brunt of the Chmmr's forces.
Think Kzer-Za style.. They just lost a war, and now they're being attacked.. It's not their *style* to Spathi their way out of something. If it was their *style* to do that, they would certainly have sent their Battle Thralls to attack the Kohr-Ah.. Also, they themselves gave other races an option when they conquered them. Enslavement or Fight with them. That proves that they do believe in "if you lose a war, you're being left as a pet of the winners of that war". In this case, the Chmmr/Alliance won the war, and they lost it... They would likely admit their defeat, as they did with the loss of the Doctrinal Conflict..
...either that, or there's a hole in this theory...
And if you *really* want a lame way to keep the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za there, just let the Chmmr surround their whole SoI.
Hmm. A little quote from the Ur-Quan:
Quote
Human? You are a fool! Why are you still here?
Flee!... before the Kohr-Ah find you!

Why should we run away?
Because you are doomed if you remain here!
Our Doctrinal War is over. We, the Kzer-Za, have lost.
RUN HUMAN!
Because if you do not run -- do not find somewhere to hide and nurture your species
you are extinct, and we, who have tried to protect you
are now powerless to stop the killing frenzy of the Kohr-Ah.
Looks as if they accept their loss of the war, right? Maybe because that is because it's a war between Ur-Quan species, but still, it looks as if they surely would accept a defeat and go with whatever their "masters" say... At least the Kzer-Za species, right?
Quote

I feel like this whole bit deeply oversimplifies the Ur-Quan.

But, in any case, 3DO ending, dude. It's canon, whether you choose to accept it. (Even the PC ending gives the impression that the Ur-Quan are pretty much dead as a military force shortly after your actions at the Sa-Matra.)

Quote
Quote
Why do the Spathi acquiesce so easily? Why don't they demand that the shield be reinstated? They seemed really in love with that thing, and they spent a lot of time making it.
Think about it.. What would you, or any Spathi rather be: locked up and pretty damn safe, or free and safe? Besides, the Earthlings are sort of their heroes, and I bet even they have this liiitle bit of honour left...

Earthlings? Their heroes? WTF? *Zelnick* is *Fwiffo*'s hero, and that's it. They never lose that sort of xenophobic contempt for you after you bully them into joining the Alliance.

You have the Spathi read wrong, all wrong. "Honour left"? Earthling honor means a little -- or should mean as little -- to them as the Ilwrath glorification of mutilation and pain means to us. So does freedom. Their actions up to this point are evidence enough of that.

Look -- They *put the frickin' Slave Shield up themselves*! Not because they were afraid of the Kohr-Ah -- they knew *nothing* about the Doctrinal War -- but because of the "Ultimate Evil", which is nebulous and imaginary and has no evidence for its existence! And at the time they were under the protection of the *Ur-Quan*, whom they had every reason to believe was the most powerful force in the entire galaxy!

Damn straight a Spathi would rather be "trapped" and safe rather than free, especially since I doubt being on Spathiwa counts as "trapped" for a Spathi -- they'd spent generations trying to get back there, after all.

Think about the trouble they must have gone through to *create* that shield and *put it up themselves* -- why would they be anything other than royally pissed to have you take it back down, *especially if it means forcing Spathi to fight in yet another war*? Frankly I don't find their point of view that alien at all; from the perspective of the self-preserving coward, the Chmmr in this scenario are horrible, imperialistic monsters. They would bow under and agree to fight out of abject fear, sure, but they wouldn't be happy.

In fact -- I'm now thinking that a good (Timewarp-inspired) plot would be the Spathi repeatedly re-shielding themselves, and you having to keep going back and un-shield them again.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2005, 07:32:05 pm »

Oh just let them be...
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2005, 06:11:31 am »

SC-III absolutely needs new alien races.  Seeing which races disappear and which jump up to fill the hole is a big part of the thrill of SC-II.  Orz replace Androsynth by creepy means, Kohr-Ah complement the Ur-Quan, you can blow away the evil/hyper-violent Ilwrath and Thraddash, the Chenjeshu and Mrrmnhrmmnmrnmrn disappear to be resurrected as a superior race... plus new wierdos like the Druuge and Zoq-Fot-Pik are randomly swimming around space, which is all inspiring when you think about the untapped potentials of making contact in space.

I suggest:  ammonia-solvated life that lives with a slower metabolism and perception of time (not too unlike Chenjeshu, but these creatures could resemble water-solvated analogs)... travelling to the Orz dimension reveals them in their true form... the Shofixti convert from their warrior cult to a fertility religion... Mrrmnhrmnfrmn Model B's are encountered, with a different program... and a plant form is encountered that proves to have a radically different nature & culture than the Supox.

Well, I really think that the Kzer-za would capitulate before being destroyed.  They would wait for a chance to come back and dominate again, but that might be a long time coming.  I guess they could go either way, but in the face of indomnitable odds, I don't think that they would choose self-sacrifice.
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2005, 09:55:44 am »

Ok, just a quick ill thought out suggestion,

Ur-Quan etc are "REALLY" wipped out
peace starts, exploration begins and then ships start dissapearing
the Melnorme start getting worried and actually start helping you
[suggestions of places to go etc, basically giving you missions and plot threads ... for a price]

Ships start attacking, basically evil versions of races [darker coloured ships maybe, or captians with beards Tongue ]

Basically the new big bad [which you dont SEE untill the very end of the game, just hear a lot about is the Keel-Verezy]
THEY are the Spathi ultimate evil [part of the game is convincing the spathi to lower the shield and help or else they will die with everyone else, and that the shield wont protect them].
They are also the creators of the Mrrmnhrm, and so have the Chmmr as thralls.as well as the Mrrmnhrm.

Maybe you can find proof that the Keel-Verezy were the ones that developed the slave shield technology that the Ur-Quan found. thats how you get the Apathi back in it.

Convince races like the Vux that the new enermy is uglyier than even humans and so on.

The Keel-Verezy bring back the dead races as thralls [including both Kzer-Za and Koh-Ah]
This is part of what makes them so scarey, do they do it with genetics, timewarp technology or something else? [spokey semi re-animated bodies perhaps?] do they have endless amounts of "dead" warriors like the Androsynth / illrath etc?

Exploration can bring new races if you want, both good and bad.

As you go through the game they crush races, making them slaves, so you must fight to protect the races you want to use.

All the while finding lost Precursor stuff to make the MK1

The final kick, they have the MK2, they have returned from there [long] war with the precursors, and so you must get technology from all the races to make the MK1 its equal  or better.

any good?
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Re: SC3r plot idea #690340 - No new alien races - No "Accept this or Die"
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2005, 09:59:00 am »

Ok, just a quick ill thought out suggestion,

Ur-Quan etc are "REALLY" wipped out
peace starts, exploration begins and then ships start dissapearing
the Melnorme start getting worried and actually start helping you
[suggestions of places to go etc, basically giving you missions and plot threads ... for a price]

Ships start attacking, basically evil versions of races [darker coloured ships maybe, or captians with beards Tongue ]

Basically the new big bad [which you dont SEE untill the very end of the game, just hear a lot about is the Keel-Verezy]
THEY are the Spathi ultimate evil [part of the game is convincing the spathi to lower the shield and help or else they will die with everyone else, and that the shield wont protect them].
They are also the creators of the Mrrmnhrm, and so have the Chmmr as thralls.as well as the Mrrmnhrm.

Maybe you can find proof that the Keel-Verezy were the ones that developed the slave shield technology that the Ur-Quan found. thats how you get the Apathi back in it.

Convince races like the Vux that the new enermy is uglyier than even humans and so on.

The Keel-Verezy bring back the dead races as thralls [including both Kzer-Za and Koh-Ah]
This is part of what makes them so scarey, do they do it with genetics, timewarp technology or something else? [spokey semi re-animated bodies perhaps?] do they have endless amounts of "dead" warriors like the Androsynth / illrath etc?

Exploration can bring new races if you want, both good and bad.

As you go through the game they crush races, making them slaves, so you must fight to protect the races you want to use.

All the while finding lost Precursor stuff to make the MK1

The final kick, they have the MK2, they have returned from there [long] war with the precursors, and so you must get technology from all the races to make the MK1 its equal  or better.

any good?
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