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Author Topic: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?  (Read 10035 times)
Dave Morse
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2002, 06:55:30 am »

They're real bugs, but there are only 4 types: Worker, Warrior, Brain, Queen.  No "Orbital Defense Fart Bugs".

But the bugs were /not/ the cool part of ST.  In fact they were totally generic.  The coolest part of ST was the powered armor.  AFAIK this was the first serious Sci-Fi appearance of what is now an anime staple.  And when they went to translate it into the movie they just decided to drop it because it wasn't "essential" to what they were trying to do.

I think the movie was trying to make fun of fascism.  And make fun of the fact that most people wouldn't know fascism unless it had Nazi(TM) stamped on it.

I'm not sure if the book was also trying to make fun of fascism, or if it was secretly advocating it, or just trying to present the facts in an unbiased light.  I guess the latter, but would be interested to know what others think.
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Casey Monroe
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2002, 02:36:25 am »

The reason why the suits were dropped from the movie is because the outsides of the suits would all look exactly the same, and no one would be able to tell which characters were which--not to mention the fact that it would preclude any opportunity for "acting".  Of course, considering how ST went, maybe it would have been better that way...
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Dave Morse
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2002, 03:02:21 am »

A Starship Troopers adaptation without powered armor is like Moby Dick with no whale.
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Niahak
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2002, 03:53:49 am »

I would say the Starship Troopers movie was OK on its own...
The fact is, a movie made directly from the book probably wouldn't make that good a movie.
What's so fun about some guy bounding off hills launching nukes everywhere?
Although the planet (don't remember name)scene would've been cool.  And the launch system, too.
I don't think it would preclude acting, since suits could be different for each person.
Oh yeah, and in the book Dizzy was male.  So they couldn't have had that excuse for the topless scene(s?).  Grin
All in all, I'd watch a more loyal remake, but I don't know if the general populace would like it.
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Danny Powell
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2002, 10:40:52 am »

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I think what I always found far more interesting though was this,
"In some cases, the Ur-Quan destroyed places we did not even suspect were significant.  From their positions in orbit, the Dreadnoughts blew away a kilometer of land in central Iraq, vaporized several targets in the Amazon rain forest, punched a big hole through the Antarctic icecap to destroy something deep under the surface, and melted a broad swath of the ocean floor in the south-eastern Atlantic."


Reading through that makes me think of the Cthulhu mythos as many of those places are important in it.  Cthulhu and his ilk are huge strange god-like aliens and infact Cthulhu isn't too disimilar from an Ur-Quan.  Cthulhu is 'currently' trapped in a deep sleep in a space ship at the bottom of the atlantic.  There was a great pre-human city located in Antartica and the Necrominicom was written by a 'mad Arab'.  Don't know if it's just coincidence but that's the first thing it made me thing of.

Danny
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Black Monk
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2002, 09:16:32 pm »

A ton of the book was introspective thoughts by the protagonist.  In a visual media people want visual action, not someone sitting around thinking about things while a voiceover yaps about getting over the hump in boot camp or hearing about his father dying, etc.

A direct translation to the movie screen would have had very limited mass appeal and would have been long and boring.  

'sides, Dizzy had a topless scene!  Mmmmm...
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Chax
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2002, 03:55:50 am »

 Roll Eyes

None of you have it right
take it from someone who's parents were close friends to the author.  

it has NOTHING to do with Facism or whatever, it is another method of goverment that Heinline put foreward, and to me works a lot better then our current one.

There were more forms of bugs then just 4, there were the acid bugs which were shown in the movie as well.

Heinline was a fantastic author and a very good friend to my parents.  I respect the creators for reconizing him, i only wish i was born soon enough to meet him like my sisters..
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Dave Morse
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2002, 05:50:03 am »

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it has NOTHING to do with Facism or whatever, it is another method of goverment that Heinline put foreward, and to me works a lot better then our current one.

I regard the central tenet of Fascism to be that the individual's needs are subservient to the needs of the state.  ST seemed to have a sort of two tiered, semi-fascist system: citizens (i.e. willing fascists), and non-citizens (who enjoyed most of the advantages of American citizens, but not the right to vote).  Its interesting how the balance was struck, and how that gets rid of some of the nasty problems with fascism - like when you get too old to be productive you have to jump off a cliff.

Of course the other tendancy of fascism is to put forward a Mussolini style charismatic leader.  ST definately didn't have that.
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Captain Smith
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2002, 06:08:23 pm »

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I think it'd be neat to share experience as far as really obscure bits of dialogue and/or details in SC2.  I


To answer this original question, see my thread about pissing off things - I put in there how to do it so it's kind of a spoiler, but seeing the dialogue and doing it is kinda fun and shows a different part of the game...
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Nic.
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2002, 09:44:52 pm »

I just found one that I thought was pretty obscure:

Head to the Ilwrath homeworld and talk to them.  Not through the Hyperwave 'caster, just as yourself.  They will let you ask them all sorts of questions, and if you ask them about their religion prior to Dogar and Kazon, they will tell you that, in antiquity, they worshipped many gods, including "Awk of the Seds"  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 21, 2002, 09:45:41 pm by Nic. » Logged
Ishamael
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2002, 04:33:35 am »

Um...what is the "Awk of the Seds" reference about?  I'm not translating properly or something....   Huh
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Nic.
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2002, 04:55:15 am »

Executive summary:  They're what we had to use before Perl came along.  They are quite infamous for their ability to be mis-used, e.g., people write amazingly convoluted sed scripts where a one-line awk script would suffice, and vice-versa.

See here and here for a full explanation. Wink
« Last Edit: December 24, 2002, 05:02:33 am by Nic. » Logged
unigolyn
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2003, 11:47:18 pm »

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I regard the central tenet of Fascism to be that the individual's needs are subservient to the needs of the state.  ST seemed to have a sort of two tiered, semi-fascist system: citizens (i.e. willing fascists), and non-citizens (who enjoyed most of the advantages of American citizens, but not the right to vote).  Its interesting how the balance was struck, and how that gets rid of some of the nasty problems with fascism - like when you get too old to be productive you have to jump off a cliff.


That's not the central tenet of just Fascism - it's the central tenet of every collectivist political philosophy.

And Paul Verhoeven's cinematic accomplishments notwithstanding - he's a moron when it comes to interpreting Heinlein. The society put forth in Starship Troopers isn't Fascist at all - it's a democratic meritocracy. It's not fascism, just a form of democracy that's different from the ones we have. Basically, citizenship (i.e. voting and eligibility for public office) is not a right - it is a privilege to be earned. EVERYONE has an opportunity to earn it, it's just not automatically given to everyone. And I have to say I agree - running a government (by picking who runs it) isn't something anyone can do just cause they want to. After all, the poster boy of fascism, Adolf Hitler was ELECTED, because people were deceived by his talk of grandeur and racist rhetoric. And Heinlein's 'federal service' certainly includes political education, making a retired Starship Trooper better equipped to vote for a competent leader instead of some slick powerhungry politician (note: no one in actual military service is allowed to vote, or serve in public office, you get citizenship AFTER service). And most Heinlein fans agree that 'federal service' was actually a much larger concept than mere military service, since the failure rate in military recruitment was a whopping 99 percent.

The society itself wasn't fascist at all, it was clearly a free, capitalist society. In the movie, Rico's parents were highly against citizenship and the federation, and had no qualms in voicing their disapproval. There is no freedom of expression in a fascist society, especially expression that's critical of the government.

Verhoeven proved himself an idiot when he called Starship Troopers a fascist book and made a movie where they all wear Nazi uniforms. Oddly, he did include the egalitarian nature of book - all races and all sexes have equal standing in the government and military, and the space fleet is actually largely dominated by women.

As a shoot 'em up sci fi action movie, however, I loved ST to pieces, and I still love Verhoeven's movies, especially Total Recall.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2003, 11:49:20 pm by unigolyn » Logged
Death 999
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Re: Most Obscure Bit of Dialogue and/or Detail?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2003, 12:17:50 am »

The bugs are still bugs, mostly. I mean, they're aliens, but they're kind of in a way LIKE terran bugs.
However, the book is about 10 orders of magnitude better than the movie. It's like,

Book = Sa-Matra (deployed for battle, not in the asteroid field)

movie = Tanaka's scout
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Hee hee hee...
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2003, 09:44:10 pm »

...that was good.
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