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Author Topic: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?  (Read 96827 times)
Draxas
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2006, 05:42:00 pm »

I'm pretty sure this discussion is meant to be purely hypothetical at this point; some of these requested changes are so drastic that it would be closer to writing a sequel than making adjustments to the original. Of course, some of the other suggestions have already been executed; I think there is an addon somewhere that allows you to search for star systems by name.

Regrdless, I think this thread is more about ideas, and less about executing them... Though I wouldn't be averse to the suggestion that someone is interested enough to try to implement these changes, I don't see it as likely that anyone actually will.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2006, 09:15:00 pm »

But then what's the point in making all this ideas? I mean, doesn't ANYBODY wanna make at least some ideas possible? In his mod? Or as a patch? Do I really have to go to all the trouble of learning to moddifie the game myself? I don't even know in wich programmnig language was it written or HOW was it mad for that matter. Sigh.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2006, 09:52:48 pm »

I don’t think anyone relishes the idea of making major changes to the original code (at least I don’t), but since I’m writing a remake I could incorporate the changes when the game gets the point where this is relevant.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2006, 06:26:48 pm »

Forgive me if I missed something integral, I passed over some of the plot debates because I don't think they're really necessary.  SC2, as fun, and in ways, deep, as it is, is not a serious story.  If you pick at it long enough, there are going to be loopholes of logic.  But does it really matter when you have sentient plants, paranoid muskellids, and multicolor lifeforms obsessed with an obscure sport of FRUNGY all battling in space?

Some things that might be cool to fix in the actual game...

1) Graphics.  I don't think this can be stressed enough.  SC2 is OLD and it shows quite badly.  I do some design-work as a side-job, but I don't think a snazzier interface will be worth much if the aliens still look like bad VGA art from yesteryear.  But in earnest, it wouldn't be hard, or cost too much, to hire an illustrator for that sort of thing.  I did publish an entire Pen and Paper RPG with 60 odd illustrations, so I know that much.

2) Old-school.  SC2 harkens back to a day when taken notes with a pen was a perfectly viable option when playing a computer game.  I only played the game a little when I was younger; I mainly watched my brother.  When I played the UQM version in the last year or two, it was a wonderful journey of nostalgia, and the note-taking was a very fun part of that.  It reminded me of RPG mapmaking and such.

Still, to a virgin gamer, this isn't quite so cool.  If UQM could incorporate an online "notebook" of sorts that copied down every key piece of information.  (For example, if an alien points out that so and so's homeworld is at coordinates X, it will be listed in the notebook under locations.  Likewise, if someone mentions a strange Vux captain with a liking for humans, this tidbit will be added to the notebook.) I think this'll make the game a lot more user-friendly.  (I think someone mentioned in this thread, or another, about a tutorial to also help this.)

3) Missing Dialogue.  This still baffles me.  The missing dialogue may make the game harder for some, but to me, it's just plain odd and confusing.  Searching 50 odd planets for the Supox is not cool.  The Metachron story is a sad omission, too.

The problem is, I seriously doubt any of the original voice actors are still available.  But faking it might be plausable... I'm gonna give the Metachron story a stab sometime, but don't hold your breath.

4) Revoicing the Spathi and the Orz.  They're just SO BAD.

That's all I can think of offhand.  Of course, it's not outside the realm of possibility to hold some sort of fundraiser to HIRE artists/voice actors/ and the like.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2006, 03:02:41 pm »

Forgive me if I missed something integral, I passed over some of the plot debates because I don't think they're really necessary.  SC2, as fun, and in ways, deep, as it is, is not a serious story.  If you pick at it long enough, there are going to be loopholes of logic.  But does it really matter when you have sentient plants, paranoid muskellids, and multicolor lifeforms obsessed with an obscure sport of FRUNGY all battling in space?
I absolutely agree. In the end, it's the overall experience that matters, not the nitpicky details.

Quote
Some things that might be cool to fix in the actual game...

1) Graphics.  I don't think this can be stressed enough.  SC2 is OLD and it shows quite badly.  I do some design-work as a side-job, but I don't think a snazzier interface will be worth much if the aliens still look like bad VGA art from yesteryear.
I also agree that a project to create new game visuals as an add-on pack (much like the precursors project to create new music) is in order. This will help heighten the appeal of the game for modern audiences (excluding the retro gamer crowd).

Quote
But in earnest, it wouldn't be hard, or cost too much, to hire an illustrator for that sort of thing. I did publish an entire Pen and Paper RPG with 60 odd illustrations, so I know that much.
Hiring people is not an option. This project is completely developed and maintained by volunteers- this includes the precursors remixing team.
If you are experienced with graphic design, why not start a graphics revamping project yourself? I'm sure you will get plenty of support from community artists, and can potentially make use of material already developed (3d fan-made ships/TimeWarp sprites, etc.)
This is the open-source way. Almost all great advances in open source come from people "scratching their own itch". (FYI, the development team has promised to give high priority to expanding the graphical capabilities of the game engine if someone starts such a project).

Quote
2) Old-school.  SC2 harkens back to a day when taken notes with a pen was a perfectly viable option when playing a computer game. . . Still, to a virgin gamer, this isn't quite so cool.  If UQM could incorporate an online "notebook" of sorts that copied down every key piece of information.
Not a bad idea, but this will not happen unless someone writes an unofficial patch (or until the project reaches v1.0 at least). The developers generally adhere to the "straight-port" doctrine, which means that UQM versions 0.x will be direct ports of the game, excluding add-on packs like the remixes.

Quote
3) Missing Dialogue.  This still baffles me...
I absolutely agree, this creates far more trouble than it's worth. The text should be inserted into the game immediately... players using the voice pack will just have to deal with a few seconds of silence for the time being.

Quote
The problem is, I seriously doubt any of the original voice actors are still available.  But faking it might be plausable... I'm gonna give the Metachron story a stab sometime, but don't hold your breath.

4) Revoicing the Spathi and the Orz.  They're just SO BAD.
ChampionHyena started an effort to re-voice ALL the characters, but I don't know what's come of it. I offered to voice the Slylandro and he accepted, but I haven't heard from him since July.

Quote
Of course, it's not outside the realm of possibility to hold some sort of fundraiser to HIRE artists/voice actors/ and the like.
From whose pocket will these funds come?
And of course, hiring people is not the open source way. (see my response to point 1) Wink
« Last Edit: January 11, 2006, 03:10:10 pm by Halleck » Logged


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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2006, 03:58:14 pm »

"FYI, the development team has promised to give high priority to expanding the graphical capabilities of the game engine if someone starts such a project."

Don't new, higher resolution ship graphics count? (I though there were a whole bunch of those made for the TW projects.)


"ChampionHyena started an effort to re-voice ALL the characters, but I don't know what's come of it. I offered to voice the Slylandro and he accepted, but I haven't heard from him since July."

Did you ever make any samples of your new Slylandro dialog? If so, what software did you use?
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2006, 05:39:42 pm »

Hiring people CAN be the open-source way, so long as whoever is doing the hiring wants the product to be open-source.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2006, 09:52:20 pm »

Forgive me if I missed something integral, I passed over some of the plot debates because I don't think they're really necessary.  SC2, as fun, and in ways, deep, as it is, is not a serious story.  If you pick at it long enough, there are going to be loopholes of logic.  But does it really matter when you have sentient plants, paranoid muskellids, and multicolor lifeforms obsessed with an obscure sport of FRUNGY all battling in space?

Some things that might be cool to fix in the actual game...

1) Graphics.  I don't think this can be stressed enough.  SC2 is OLD and it shows quite badly.  I do some design-work as a side-job, but I don't think a snazzier interface will be worth much if the aliens still look like bad VGA art from yesteryear.  But in earnest, it wouldn't be hard, or cost too much, to hire an illustrator for that sort of thing.  I did publish an entire Pen and Paper RPG with 60 odd illustrations, so I know that much.
I guess higher-resolution images and the like won't hurt, but it is paramount that THE DESIGNS REMAIN THE SAME. It looks like SC3 is guilty of breaking this unwritten rule.
Quote
2) Old-school.  SC2 harkens back to a day when taken notes with a pen was a perfectly viable option when playing a computer game.  I only played the game a little when I was younger; I mainly watched my brother.  When I played the UQM version in the last year or two, it was a wonderful journey of nostalgia, and the note-taking was a very fun part of that.  It reminded me of RPG mapmaking and such.

Still, to a virgin gamer, this isn't quite so cool.  If UQM could incorporate an online "notebook" of sorts that copied down every key piece of information.  (For example, if an alien points out that so and so's homeworld is at coordinates X, it will be listed in the notebook under locations.  Likewise, if someone mentions a strange Vux captain with a liking for humans, this tidbit will be added to the notebook.) I think this'll make the game a lot more user-friendly.  (I think someone mentioned in this thread, or another, about a tutorial to also help this.)
It would be nice, though the next problem we're going to get to may pose problems with this. Let's make this a switchable option for the hardcore gamers out there.
Quote
3) Missing Dialogue.  This still baffles me.  The missing dialogue may make the game harder for some, but to me, it's just plain odd and confusing.  Searching 50 odd planets for the Supox is not cool.  The Metachron story is a sad omission, too.

The problem is, I seriously doubt any of the original voice actors are still available.  But faking it might be plausable... I'm gonna give the Metachron story a stab sometime, but don't hold your breath.
Seconded. I'm still wondering just what the hell is the MetaChron. I remember hearing about a device that grows darker as its supposed destruction draws nearer-is that the MetaChron?
Quote
4) Revoicing the Spathi and the Orz.  They're just SO BAD.
I haven't finalized my decision on the Orz voice, but I think that the Spathi accent really contributes to their charm. Let's leave that alone. That said, if there are any recording errors(like breathing or background noises), those should be fixed.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2006, 11:13:44 pm »

Did you ever make any samples of your new Slylandro dialog? If so, what software did you use?
I did make some samples that I sent to ChampionHyena, recorded on a crappy internal mic and effect-ized with audacity. I don't know what I did with the files, though...

Also... I was sort of embarrased about publishing them.  Embarrassed
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2006, 11:23:43 pm »

I guess higher-resolution images and the like won't hurt, but it is paramount that THE DESIGNS REMAIN THE SAME. It looks like SC3 is guilty of breaking this unwritten rule.

Agreed.  Making it better doesn't mean reinventing the wheel.  Though you have to realize certain designs, when ported to hi-res, will require SOME modification to continue looking spiffy.  As we can see from Time Warp's lifts of the Druuge and Yehat ships.  Though, personally, I think just reworking the interface might do wonders.  The combat sequences don't look TOO bad.

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It would be nice, though the next problem we're going to get to may pose problems with this. Let's make this a switchable option for the hardcore gamers out there

No harm in that, I suppose.  I doubt anyone would want to program such a feature, anyway.

Quote
Seconded. I'm still wondering just what the hell is the MetaChron. I remember hearing about a device that grows darker as its supposed destruction draws nearer-is that the MetaChron?

Indeed.  Blueish (or was it Greenish?) of the Melnorme is in possession of this artifact.  It apparently can predict its own demise by changing color as the likelihood of such a fate increases.  As such, the Melnorme is fairly confident that something will come to pass that will destroy all life in the local sector.
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Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2006, 05:04:22 am »

The Utwig and Orz voices should be redone, but the rest should be left alone.
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2006, 08:45:12 am »

The Utwig and Orz voices should be redone, but the rest should be left alone.

With the exception of removing the very loud breathing on the Ur-Quan's voiceovers, I rather agree. I have appreciated most of the voices I've heard in the game so far (still haven't encountered the Thraddash, Umgah, Dynarri, Utwig, or Chenjesu/Chmmr yet, though); they add a lot of charm to most of the races. The only exception is the Orz; I think it says a lot that I like their voiceovers from SC3 better, considering how I blast that game on nearly everything else. The translation computer interjecting every time they said one of their *asterisk* phrases lent them a much creepier disposition, and I thought it was a neat effect.

Though from what everyone has been saying about the Utwig voiceovers lately, it sounds like they need to be redone as well. I never envisioned them as whiny emo teens, and I can't figure why they were interpreted that way other than for some rather misplaced humor value.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 08:49:58 am by Draxas » Logged
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2006, 03:58:30 pm »

To anyone who's going to remake the Orz voice: play Star Control 3! It's actually got GOOD Orz voices in there!
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2006, 08:56:23 pm »

Sorry, Halleck.  By some unknown means, I totally missed your post.

Hiring people is not an option. This project is completely developed and maintained by volunteers- this includes the precursors remixing team.
If you are experienced with graphic design, why not start a graphics revamping project yourself? I'm sure you will get plenty of support from community artists, and can potentially make use of material already developed (3d fan-made ships/TimeWarp sprites, etc.)
This is the open-source way. Almost all great advances in open source come from people "scratching their own itch". (FYI, the development team has promised to give high priority to expanding the graphical capabilities of the game engine if someone starts such a project).

I've never really done much open source stuff, just a lot of creating projects.  But I'll take your word on it...for now. ;p

If I have time, I'll to do a revamp of the basic interface (essentially, take a screencap of, say, space navigation and take it to hell and back in Photoshop) and see what happens.

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3) Missing Dialogue.  This still baffles me...
I absolutely agree, this creates far more trouble than it's worth. The text should be inserted into the game immediately... players using the voice pack will just have to deal with a few seconds of silence for the time being.

A possibility....Remember the "crew" chats that pop up occassionally?  Since MOST of the missing dialogue refers to space coordinates, we could have a computer readout from a random crew member stating "We have received a set of coordinates from the Utwig.  They are apparently the Supox homeworld, sir."

Not quite as good, but we could even voice those without worrying about matching naything, since no crew chat was ever voiced.

Edit: What would be a good resolution for a new high-res interface?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2006, 09:21:37 pm by Clay » Logged
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Re: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better?
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2006, 08:59:27 pm »

With the exception of removing the very loud breathing on the Ur-Quan's voiceovers, I rather agree. I have appreciated most of the voices I've heard in the game so far (still haven't encountered the Thraddash, Umgah, Dynarri, Utwig, or Chenjesu/Chmmr yet, though); they add a lot of charm to most of the races. The only exception is the Orz; I think it says a lot that I like their voiceovers from SC3 better, considering how I blast that game on nearly everything else. The translation computer interjecting every time they said one of their *asterisk* phrases lent them a much creepier disposition, and I thought it was a neat effect.

Though from what everyone has been saying about the Utwig voiceovers lately, it sounds like they need to be redone as well. I never envisioned them as whiny emo teens, and I can't figure why they were interpreted that way other than for some rather misplaced humor value.

The Thraddash and Umgah totally rock everything.

Chenjesu is passable.  Nothing spectacular, but not too annoying.  Dynarri is....interesting to say the least.  It's actually voiced by Paul (or was it Fred? one of the two)...It's at least very animated.

The Utwig are completely and utterly terrible.  I tried to give it a chance, since half the point of the Utwig is there terribly painful monologues, but somehow it's just too masochistic with those voices...

The Orz from SCIII do indeed rock.  I also vastly prefer the Spathi voice.  The Spathi in UQM just seems like reading lines of a page and running it through a high pitch filter....
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