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Topic: Improving the original? What to improve to do the game even better? (Read 97971 times)
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guesst
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Ancient Shofixti Warrior
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Wouldn't there be an issue with resolution? The game is still running 320x240 (or so) scaled up with various shaders. Can it be easily adapted to use graphics of 4x+ the resolution?
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Vux_Brush
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Having a working engine so that artist sees his work ingame as he produces, is what , provided one is fan enough of the game, pays for the non having $ income of it, for a gfx people (all which i know call me crazy for working in free projects. yet though...well, not all.One of those that worked with me had worked also in mods. But while he was learning.never more. I am part of probably a rare specie XD )
But there, I put myself in the developers place. While they surely love the game, their in similar situation. Witha difference. They have made *tons* of work already, just for the passion about a game. Who can tell them to work on graphic features when is unsure graphic people would work enough. For hwat I know ,most of us are lazier when no income is there. And now again to defend that point, usually the artist decides close to nothing. While usual free projects on inet, the coder decides the world, the idea, the specs. It's by its nature, yep, but then artists prefer to do hi res moview where they are the directors of their own ideas. There you see a nice movie collection been made by someone (movie 4 thread) Which is a considerable amount of work alone.(I know it is)
So, dead point. Ones wont work more for nothing, and the other rarely will do when: usually the fans of a game, if very fans, cant stand their fav ships just a bit different or a bit worse than original...think of the guy making the art...he made his best already, or his/her best for teh available free time...and as also, they'r doing gfx that probaly will just end as a thread fo rthe memories...and just that. Ascii piles, as I call em 
IMHO, the thread is indeed the best hope for a future res improve of the game. Some artist will drop aorund here witha new ship redrawn in hi res 2d, or rendered but as 2d hi res output, trying to mach the already done thread gfx style...
perhaps then, you find it in a point some day, where all are allmost all ships are done. there are a bunch already. Programmers then have the gfx needed, and is way easier to code so.
I have been to mods, and skinned already done games. Is WAY less frustrating for the artist. there so many games that never get ended...A good case is the hard worked space ship that I showed here and that i had to eat myself as coder did preferred other projects suddenly. Just when ship was carefully done and textured, and in record time for what is a free project.
Conclussion, this thread is the hope for a hi res version.
One clever thing to do for any artist working on this is...if has 3d knowledge, do a mid poly version of the ships, prepared to be easy to be drastically lowered in polygon count. This way would have a version valid for a 3d starcontrol (of the several from scratch initiatives out there) which rendered and some polishing, will work for doing the hi res 2d version here, 3d has the lights advantage, plus no extra work for infinite angle (render to movie or frames button, hehe)
And here there's some realy cool gfx done, in this thread.
Or those are my 2 cents of an euro, again.
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« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 02:05:23 pm by Vux_Brush »
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GeomanNL
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I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
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It's not that bad, vuxbrush: UQM is working, there is already a complete plot, gameplay is all done - everything is done, except the graphics (from your viewpoint). So, it's not a very risky investment, imo, at least not compared to lots of other free projects, where most or all aspects of the game are unfinished, or in development.
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Vux_Brush
Frungy champion
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you mean is not that bad for contributing...
(as the urquan project is incredibly good however one looks at it)
Well, indeed, I would have done weeks ago if weren't that have a crazy labour day hours -doing exactly these sort of things- , and that occurs the coincidence I have started work for extra income outside my job. Anyway, I do plan to do work for something of this, 3d and/or 2d.
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guesst
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Ancient Shofixti Warrior
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I've said that twice already! New thread for improved graphics when the next one gets done. But does anyone listlen to ol' guesst? Nooo.
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Clay
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What can we do for you...today?
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If I ever finish the Melnorme Trader, guesst, I promise I'm gonna post it in a new thread, quickly followed by all the previous designs stuck into one nice concise little spot. ^_^
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NanoGator
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Greetings! My name is Brian. I'm a 3D Artist and a big fan of Star Control II. I wanted to pop in and offer some input. Hopefully it'll be of use...
Having a working engine so that artist sees his work ingame as he produces, is what , provided one is fan enough of the game, pays for the non having $ income of it, for a gfx people (all which i know call me crazy for working in free projects. yet though...well, not all.One of those that worked with me had worked also in mods. But while he was learning.never more. I am part of probably a rare specie XD )
This is a tough problem. You need the content, but it's time consuming to create and .. well... as you said, people can be lazy. (I'm no exception...) The engine problem is an even bigger one. There are a variety of tools for making 3d Models. You could have two different guys working on models both using different apps. This one's solvable. If you stick to a standard format (.obj, for example with .PNG for the textures), and prescribe a few limitations like "Stay within 2,000 polygons".
There's a bigger problem, though. These ships all have effects like thrusters, weapons fire, etc. How do you give the artist control over these effects? I have a feeling, as you've mentioned, a development tool will be needed. Ouch.
Rare species? Well.. I think that's a matter of how you go about recruiting them. Most of the artists that would find interest in working on this game would love to work at a place like Zoic doing space shots for Battlestar Galactica. This industry is hard to enter, though. You have to be able to demonstrate you can handle the work. To do that, you have to be motivated to push your own boundaries and do something truely amazing. One of my biggest hurdles was my lack of direction. I'd start one project one evening, then a new project the next evening, and so on, until my hard drive was filled with un-showable half-baked models. It wasn't until I was challenged to raise my own bar that I really started producing anything. I did a few 3D illustrations for a web based game, trying my best to show off. And it worked! I ended up with several usable pieces, and the rest is history. The pro-bono work I did ended up paying off big time. I think that if this project could offer some challenging work, you could get some talented people generating new artwork. (Just last night I was imagining how I'd approach a short 3d movie of an Urquan for use in the conversation screens...)
But there, I put myself in the developers place. While they surely love the game, their in similar situation. Witha difference. They have made *tons* of work already, just for the passion about a game. Who can tell them to work on graphic features when is unsure graphic people would work enough. For hwat I know ,most of us are lazier when no income is there. And now again to defend that point, usually the artist decides close to nothing. While usual free projects on inet, the coder decides the world, the idea, the specs. It's by its nature, yep, but then artists prefer to do hi res moview where they are the directors of their own ideas. There you see a nice movie collection been made by someone (movie 4 thread) Which is a considerable amount of work alone.(I know it is)
Good point, particularly the last couple of sentences. This begs the question, though: Is there something that can be done to make the work more glamorous? I thought about this quite a bit last night. Why make it a 3D polygonal game? Why not keep it 2D like it is now and use hi-res pre-rendered sprites? Not only would this simplify the pipeline for recieving artwork from artists, but it also allows them to flex their artistic muscles and get the most out of their apps. (seems to me that game development would be simpler, too...) It would definitely open the doors to a truely unique style to the game that's still in-line with the original. The artist would have more control over his work and the programmers would have less to do. Thoughts?
So, dead point. Ones wont work more for nothing, and the other rarely will do when: usually the fans of a game, if very fans, cant stand their fav ships just a bit different or a bit worse than original...think of the guy making the art...he made his best already, or his/her best for teh available free time...and as also, they'r doing gfx that probaly will just end as a thread fo rthe memories...and just that. Ascii piles, as I call em
People will always complain about things being a little different. It's a law of humanity. Hehe. But you know what? They already have the original game to play. So why not try for a reimagined version?
I'm an admin for a 3D forum of scifi artists. (www.scifi-meshes.com, if you're curious.) A few years ago, we ran a couple of contests to challenge people. I have to say, I was AMAZED at the entries. Several people stepped up to outdo the other, and well it ended up a good experience for all. Funny enough, we even had prizes for the contest. We were suprised at how many companies were interested in the idea of giveaway contest. We didn't run out and spend $1,000 on stuff, it was provided. Who's to say this project couldn't suffer a similar success?
Conclussion, this thread is the hope for a hi res version.
One clever thing to do for any artist working on this is...if has 3d knowledge, do a mid poly version of the ships, prepared to be easy to be drastically lowered in polygon count. This way would have a version valid for a 3d starcontrol (of the several from scratch initiatives out there) which rendered and some polishing, will work for doing the hi res 2d version here, 3d has the lights advantage, plus no extra work for infinite angle (render to movie or frames button, hehe)
And here there's some realy cool gfx done, in this thread.
Or those are my 2 cents of an euro, again.
Oopsie, I hadn't read this paragraph when I wrote the earlier one about the sprites. Sorry. 
I'd like to add, though, that there are plenty of tricks that can be done with 2D images mapped onto 3D planes. I think if a hybrid 2D/3D approach similar to the one I mentioned before were implemented some really creative ideas could be brought forth to really push the boundaries of the graphics for this game.
Anyway, just thought I'd drop by. This is a great project and I wish it success. Cheers, guys.
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