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Author Topic: using precursor ship in super melee  (Read 5736 times)
justanotherSC2lover
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using precursor ship in super melee
« on: December 29, 2005, 07:54:42 pm »

sorry, i read the FAQ and i know it said we gotta do our own coding if we have an idea but i dnt know how to code   Embarrassed

anyway, one thing i always wanted to do in SC2 was to be able to load the precursor ship in the adventure game and use it in super melee.

just thought i'd share...

P.S. great job you guys. i lost my copy of SC2 years ago and i've missed it since. found your site and... well... thanks for the time and effort you put into this project. made me reeeaaally happy  Smiley
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2005, 12:23:26 am »

Loading the flag ship would be kinda sexy.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2005, 02:54:48 am »

It would be nice, but the question is how to handle the modular nature of Vindicator-type Precursor ships(I don't know if we should bother with the Sa-Matra).

I was thinking of a special melee mode that has RU restrictions for both sides, and melee is handled just like the core game. Do you go all-out on your flagship, with Hellbore Cannons and the like, or do you skimp on your flagship in order to have smaller ships in your fleet(Cruisers, Eluders/Discriminators, etc.)?
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2005, 02:52:01 pm »

I think that including the flagship in SuperMelee will kinda make this awsome vessel "steal the show", while making it be thought as the best ship to pick, etc.. which is by the way true (if the flagship is well-moudulized).
In that way not only that it would un-ballance the current power relations between ships, it would also make anyone wonder "hmmm. this ship doesn't seem to belong here at all". Undecided
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2005, 03:47:37 pm »

how would you balance the homing hellbore cannons, exactly?

you destroy Ur-Quan Dreadn ANY ship with two shots from long range
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2005, 05:38:52 pm »

Druuge can do significant damage to the Vindy, if flown well. It's got a huge target profile.


Also, keep in mind how much RU it will take to make the Vindy a serious contender. Just the maneuvering jets and thrusters are thousands upon thousands of RU to build up. A crew compartment? 2000 RU.

How much kickass can you build into a Vindicator which costs only as much as twelve Dreadnaughts (12 * 3000 RU = 36000 RU)?

Well, let's see.
Full thrust and turning?
9500 RU right there.
Two hellbore cannons?
21500 RU
One tracking system?
we're up to 26500 RU.
We can't quite afford three dynamos and a shiva, which is the first setup which makes this kingly... and that's assuming we want zero crew compartments!
So scrap a hellbore, we're down to 20500 RU.
Fill in the Dynamos and a Shiva, and we've got  4500 left.
Two crew compartments and fill them up with crew...
and there you go.

Full maneuvering
one hellbore,
one tracking system,
three dynamos,
one shiva furnace,
100 crew
cost: 35800

A mean ship, but I think it could be taken out by a competently flown fleet of similar value... or, depending on the choices, much less.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2006, 11:19:27 am »

how about this.

half-way turning jets, two hellbore cannons, maybe one shiva.

that's enough.

you spawn into battle, turn towards the enemy ship, wait for it to get into range (of the hellbore, that's quite far) then shoot twice.

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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 06:24:57 pm »

That ship is slow. I pick VUX. Even if you start facing me, I can just take the 12 damage (I'm inside the tracking radius) and limpet you until you are totally immobile. If I haven't gotten on your tail, you can go ahead and blow me away then; the next ship will wipe you out easily.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2006, 08:45:16 pm »

okay, so you win against all ships except the vux.

my point is, you can get a "cheap" configuration that wins all.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2006, 03:58:20 am »

I would just get a utwig or a yehat.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2006, 04:11:55 am »

Forget that. Why be subtle? An Avatar would roast that thing with only an ounce of effort. Hell, an Eluder could probably do it without even getting hit pretty easily, if you're into that sort of tedium.

I think the biggest problem is that even with a poor config, you could just load the ship up with bunches of crew pods, and it would be an excersize in endurance just to bring it down. With even the most powerful weapons doing 10 or so damage tops, trying to remove 200-300 crew without having several ships destroyed by a single tracking Hellbore in slot 2 is a daunting, and altogether unfair, task. As someone said, simply making the ship available would completely throw off any excuse for balance in Melee mode.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2006, 07:41:27 pm »

okay, so you win against all ships except the vux.

my point is, you can get a "cheap" configuration that wins all.

And my point is, any fleet which includes a single VUX will clobber your ship. And, as pointed out, Utwig and Yehat will clobber it too, though they're more cost-intensive.

A 'wins-all' ship is only worth it if it really DOES 'win all'. 'wins all except for one cheap counter' is not going to be worth more than 40 points on the outside, which is enough to buy, oh, 2/3 of a Hellbore cannon.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2006, 12:51:04 am »

And my point is, any fleet which includes a single VUX will clobber your ship. And, as pointed out, Utwig and Yehat will clobber it too, though they're more cost-intensive.

A 'wins-all' ship is only worth it if it really DOES 'win all'. 'wins all except for one cheap counter' is not going to be worth more than 40 points on the outside, which is enough to buy, oh, 2/3 of a Hellbore cannon.

okay you know what - I take my words back.

even against the VUX, if you take the two hellbore cannons and full turning jets you can still win without losing too much crew, if any.
the VUX spawns close, but the nozzle doesn't always point exactly towards the enemy vessel. and the radius of the hellbore cannons isn't that tight, not to mention that the first and second slots will always hit especially from point-blank range.

Hell don't take my word for it, just go to their homeworld and test it Tongue
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2006, 05:58:28 pm »

Nozzle direction is irrelevant. The VUX only limpets.

So, you had better include a PDL on your flagship. With that, things get trickier.

Also, you're going to need some energy regeneration. Otherwise you're out of juice after the first VUX, and the second gets to act before you do... and then you're immobile.

It's the energy generation that really makes things expensive.
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Re: using precursor ship in super melee
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2006, 09:57:04 pm »

Or, you could just buy a few thrusters and stomp the gas as soon as battle starts. A VUX will never catch up, even if you haven't filled every slot. After that, it's simply a matter of keeping out of limpet range and wearing it down. When the next VUX warps in, simply repeat the process.

Let's face it, there's only one ship that really stands much of a chance against the flagship, especially if it's at its peak: A Jugger. Even then, point blank range is a risky proposition at best.
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