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Poll
Question: A new Star Control should show aliens as
3D computer-generated images
hand-drawn cartoons
claymation
puppets (SC3 style)
puppets (Muppet style)
puppets (Thunderbirds style)
actors in suits
something else (specify)

Author Topic: Poll: alien appearance in sequel  (Read 10066 times)
Bongo Bill
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2006, 09:27:25 am »

3D models take a lot more work than 2D sprites, all things considered. I can see using 3D for navigation, exploration, and combat... but it would ruin the conversation aspects to have anything less than the best of 3D models. We already know that a more hand-drawn cartoon style better suits the often whimsical nature of the game, and it's easier to do well than attempting to get 3D models that look as good as the 2D cartoons.

If it's at all possible to do the models well, then I say go for it - but I doubt that it's the most prudent option.

Also, it'll be a good idea to keep the game capable of running on older machines.
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...but is it art?
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2006, 03:43:24 am »

Claymation! And given the opportunaty, that would be a lot of fun to do as well. Especially for fwiffo.
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meep-eep
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2006, 04:11:06 am »

Fun? For the first few frames perhaps. But you need a *lot* of them. I think "boredom" wins from "fun" very quickly.
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Claymation
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2006, 05:50:39 am »

A very long time age, I experimented with clay animation, to make sprites for a game. What makes it difficult are three things:

1) No keyframing.

2) Whenever you move something, you leave finger marks behind.

3) After a short time, your models melt (unless they are kept really cold, and then you can't move them without them forming cracks.)
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2006, 11:46:51 pm »

Deus_Siddis, I think problems 2 and 3 are simply due to inappropriate clay. I would think that the "pro" stuff is manageable.
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2006, 05:09:15 am »

4)The "pro" stuff (clay, lights, sets, etc.) is expensive (especially when compared to Blender 3D and the GIMP.)
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2006, 04:32:31 am »

It would probably be possible to pull off some 3D characters now, and it certainly helps with animation and movement. It's probably the best commercial alternative... for the US. In japan, hand drawn 2D all the way. I love the way RPGs have little hand drawn characters accompanied by their message box. The japanese seem to have more acceptance of 2D games.

Rival Schools was pretty awesome too; each character had like a few expressions (agressive, neutral, shocked, smartsy, etc), and they slid in against a letterboxed background, delivering their lines (jap voice and subtitle).

Personally I'd like something like Rival Schools, ie. several mood images, but static.


It sort of depends on how the game will be. If it's full blown 3D with ship interiors and all that, 3D is the only option of course, but I seriously doubt that anyone can live up to people's mental image of how a Spathi Eluder looks like on the inside. It would probably end up being this dull barren room with some attempts at colorful textures.
I've always imagined that the Eluder has atleast one colorful 'ball-sea' room and lots of things that appears to come from a kids playground (and toys for babies under 1 years), except it's hard to tell how to play with it. Their levers might have a rubberball on them that squeeks when they grab it.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2006, 05:49:21 am »

"I seriously doubt that anyone can live up to people's mental image of how a Spathi Eluder looks like on the inside. It would probably end up being this dull barren room with some attempts at colorful textures."

That's only if they got the lighting wrong. In SC2, their bridge actually looks rather dark, during communication.


"I've always imagined that the Eluder has atleast one colorful 'ball-sea' room and lots of things that appears to come from a kids playground,"

Sort of makes sense, the Spathi would not want anything that wasn't at least child safe around them.
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2006, 04:39:12 pm »

3D, preferably stylized to retain some of the cartoonish sc2 asthetic.
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Death 999
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Re: Claymation
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2006, 05:42:28 pm »

FYI: My vote for clay was a joke.
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TiLT
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2006, 06:25:22 pm »

Saying that 2d is easier than 3d in this day and age is false, especially once you add animation. Also, certain types of animation are near impossible to do right in 2d, while making them look right in 3d is a breeze. For an example of how bad 2d can be at certain things, look at the smoke on the Utwig dialog screen. It looks horrible, and still would even if they added 10 times the amount of frames to the animation (which with 2d would be 10 times the amount of work).

Creating a decent, animated 3d model takes more time than creating a single frame 2d picture. The problem 2d has is the amount of time required to add new frames of animation. 3d simplifies this process greatly.

As icing on the cake, consider that 3d today has lots of fancy graphical effects that would be even harder to replicate with 2d, for example water, fire, slimy tentacles, translucent skin.

Not to mention that an animated 3d model takes a LOT less HD space and RAM than an animated 2d picture.

I think my rant is long enough now. Smiley
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2006, 01:05:30 am »

The biggest problem I have with 3D is internal consistancy;  Many things look great with little work due to pre-existing algorithms (water, clouds [recent], metal, plastic), but some only look acceptable even after months of tedious manual work (flesh, hair, human & animal motion).
It's much easier to suspend disbelief for something that doesn't attempt to look real (cartoons) than it is for something that looks almost, but not quite, real.
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2006, 04:11:02 am »

"It's much easier to suspend disbelief for something that doesn't attempt to look real (cartoons) than it is for something that looks almost, but not quite, real."

You can make 3D look plenty cartoonish, if you choose to go in that direction.
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2006, 07:37:57 am »

I beg to differ about the cartoon thing. This is one of the reasons I can't enjoy manga.
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Re: Poll: alien appearance in sequel
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2006, 10:13:47 am »

Look at the graphics of SC2 then do this.





ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if its not broke dont fix it. i think the graphics of the aliens are perfect already, in fact the graphics of the entire game is perfect.Why the heck did they bring 3d ships to SC3? If anyone wants to make a sequel just make a new story line taking after SC2 or SC3 ure choice, ahh something just came to mind ive always thought about how cool it would be to have a fleet of starships and try to conquer the quadrant. But i knew that would interfere with the sequels story line. So i got it make a mode that allows u to be at war with the quadrant. Make it a unlockable for after u beat the story mode.

But bout the graphics keep the original cartoon look. I mean when i played SC3 i missed the funny green looking spathi.
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