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Topic: RTS Games (Read 16642 times)
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Draxas
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RTS Games
« on: January 11, 2006, 08:29:20 pm » |
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Well, I've been at least mildly inspired by the recent discussions about Total Anihillation, so I've gone back to playing some of my old RTS games that have been lying about. In light of this, I figured I should throw this question out there:
Do a lot of you folks partake of the real time strategy genre? If so, what are your favorite titles? And are there any that simply turn you off from the whole affair?
I know I've been playing RTS games ever since Dune 2 essentially spawned the genre, way back in the early '90s, so I definitely have my favorites and my S-List. But I'd like to hear some other responses before I potentially color people's opinions with my own.
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Megagun
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Total Annihilation - Yeah! 3d! Makeyourownunits! Yeehaw! Big battles! Woo! Kablamski!!
Starcraft - Arguably the best multiplayer implementation of an RTS game (WC3 excluded, that is).
Warcraft 3 - OH SHIT! LOTS OF ORCSES ON MY SCREEN! THERE GOES MY FRAMERATE!!!1
Dark Reign - Ever knew that this game -apart from some hilarious units- had a pretty neat tactics engine (which was actually called the Tactics Engine)? It was quite good, but way too hidden...
Dune 2 - click.. click.. click.. click.. click... click.. click.. Damn, first attack wave died already?
Not much besides that.. In my opinion, Starcraft and Warcraft > all. Note that I haven't really extensively explored RTSses after Starcraft came out... Blame my hardware.. >_<
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Deus Siddis
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Starcraft was great, and Starcraft 2 (whenever they finally get around to it making it, those lazy bastards) will probably be much greater. There are just two things that prevent it from being completely perfect. First, the mineral resources were (very) limited, so too many matches end with a stalemate by starvation. The second reason, is it wasn't the almighty hybrid genre that has still not been developed much at all (though it has so much potiental)-- Action/RTS.
Which brings me to the other best (but unsung) RTS (and Action) game so far, Battlezone 2. Sadly, BZ2 needed a little more developement time than it got, probably six months to a year. Then it would have launched the Action/RTS genre into stardom. Perhaps that is where the Battlefield '42 will eventually evolve to. One can always dream.
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Draxas
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I might have guessed nearly everyone would talk about the Blizzard games. 
I enjoyed Warcraft 2 and Starcraft in their time, but both got monotonous and dull really fast. I know exactly what stalemate by starvation is all about; this is how, after several grueling hours, my first last and only LAN Starcraft game turned out. After that, I decided to stick to single player mode exclusively.
Am I the only one who doesn't like Warcraft 3? I find the game is far too focused on heroes, and limits army size to a rediculous degree. The net effect is that you wind up playing a game of what I like to call "Diablocraft;" you take your hero(es) and a bunch of escort units, and go beat up the NPC monsters until you've gained enough skills to try to slay your enemy's hero(es). Once you manage that, steamrolling their base seems to be little trouble, because they're trying frantically to raise their heroes from the dead. The whole thing seems pretty silly to me; if I wanted to play Diablo, I have that game around somewhere, but I was expecting a game where you command an army, not a hero and a band of "summons."
I'm sort of surprised that nobody has mentioned any of the Command & Conquer games yet. I have to say I've had the most fun with these in multiplayer. The Red Alert series is particularly good overall, and I personally find RA2 to be the most fun RTS to play; the game is reasonably well balanced, and the tech levels can be easily adjusted to remove the most crazy-powerful weapons from the game.
Honorable mention goes to Dune 2000. Dune 2 was the game that got me hooked on RTS games to begin with, but it had a distinct lack of mission variety and a notoriously awkward control scheme. These problems were solved in Dune 2000 using the C&C engine and mission design (though thankfully, without any of those totally obnoxious commando missions). While it doesn't retain the spirit of its predecessor *perfectly,* it's close enough to make me happy and feel some great degree of nostalgia.
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Deus Siddis
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RTS Games
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2006, 02:43:44 pm » |
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"Yes! I loved the battlezone series.
Almost a masterpiece."
Do you still play BZ2 online?
"I know exactly what stalemate by starvation is all about; this is how, after several grueling hours, my first last and only LAN Starcraft game turned out."
They could fix this problem easily, by having mineral "mines" that SCVs go into and then come out of holding a few minerals, working the same way as the Vespane Refinery/Assimilator/Extractor.
"The net effect is that you wind up playing a game of what I like to call "Diablocraft;" you take your hero(es) and a bunch of escort units, and go beat up the NPC monsters until you've gained enough skills to try to slay your enemy's hero(es). Once you manage that, steamrolling their base seems to be little trouble, because they're trying frantically to raise their heroes from the dead."
I played a W3 demo for a short while, and that's how it seemed to go, though I didn't really get into it that much. I'm more of a Starcraft loyalist when it comes to blizzard games.
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Megagun
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Urgh! How could I forget BZ2?
BZ2 is the Freespace 2 of RTSses... I still play it every now and then on the 'net...
And yes: Starcraft is indeed getting boring and dull fast, unless you play Use Map Settings maps (custom maps)... It's also a game that needs to be played in 'waves'.. Play it for a while, then stop for a long while, play again.... etc.
I found Dune2k to be fairly dull, actually...
Now there's one thing I'm still puzzled about: how the HELL did I manage to like Red Alert, and Red Alert 2 back in the days? I've tried playing RA a while ago, yet the interface and the horribleness of it all was quite irritating. Guess I got accustomized to the Starcraftian GUI or something (which we all have to agree is probably the best GUI in existance today.. Warcraft3ian GUI is slightly worse (mostly in graphics though).. A combined Startcraftian/Red-Alertian styled GUI, where you have shortcuts to building put at the right side of the screen, would probbably rock even more). Also, I tried doing a RA2 multiplayer a while ago, and that might've just been more irritating.. The units in RA2 act like morons, or even WORSE: 12-year old morons that are playing multiplayer CTF in any random FPS game... They were being insanely stupid, and it was also as if I could hear them sing: "Aidelaidelee, aidelaidelaa, we simply can't target buildings or not-shooting-at-us-enemy-units automatically because we're just stupid morons... aidleaidelee, aidelaidelaa..."
Now, probably the only RTS I'm currently waiting for with anticipation is Supreme Commander.... Massive battlefields and massive units... yum...
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VOiD
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I guess I'm on dangerous ground here, but... I've never really liked ANY RTS games, mostly because I find the whole concept of these games to be quite tedious (a bit surprising, because I can take an interest in nearly anything). The only RTS game I've really enjoyed, was Dune 2, otherwise I can't be bothered.
Zipping up flame retardant suit now.
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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Pax Imperia. Only partially RTS -- it has a real-time empire building part and a real-time combat part, but the two don't mix.
The ship customization was nice, but a bit too abusable. Balance? Way off... some things just were never useful. Otherwise, an nice, intricate game.
Starcraft -- if your game was a stalemate, then neither of you knew how to form up an attack force or use abilities to defeat defenses... If one side is terran, at least, a forced stalemate is nearly impossible. That said, I prefer maps which delay contact a little, so there is opportunity for more variety in strategies.
Command and Conquer -- the original had some very imbalanced mechanics... My experience with Red Alert was better, but I didn't play it very much. Good marks.
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Draxas
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I can understand where you're coming from, Void; I can't tolerate even my favorites in the genre for too long without a break. It's definitely the sort of thing that needs to be played in fits and starts for fans, so I can certainly see how you might not like it at all.
What can I say about that game of Starcraft? We were both first-timers for a net game. We took our favorites; I was Terran, he was Zerg. Nobody tried to rush, but by the time he built up a nasty attack force, I had sufficient defenses to hold him off... For a price. And vice versa on my counterstrikes. Neither of us could keep the damage under control well enough to really splurge on a decisive assault; I never managed to build a single Battlecruiser the entire game, and he only hit me with Guardians once. Before too long we were getting bored and low on resources, and just called it a draw. I think he played it online a bit more than that afterward (and I got to hear more about Korean Zerg Rushes than I ever wanted to know), and I pretty much gave multiplayer up entirely. Red Alert was way more fun to play against another person anyway.
Let's not talk about the first C&C, though. Worst job of balancing I've ever seen in any game, period.
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Arne
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I'm very selective about RTS games. I didn't like most of the mainstream ones. A few I like are:
TA (Waaay ahead of its time, and maybe still is ahead.)
DarkReign - Not that good but I liked something about it, maybe the atmosphere.
Utopia II - K240 - Kinda messy, but tons of potential, almost completely untapped genre.
Colonial Conquest - PD game for the Amiga, similar to K240 but more Civ-ish.
Utopia - Sim City-ish, isometric, I still play it. The combat part was very crude.
I believe the mother of RTS is not purely Dune II, but also Herzog Zweii and probably some other less known games.
I really disliked C&C... good god those crawling men WHY CAN'T I KILL THEM!!!??!
WC3 was pretty boring, too much micromanagement for my taste.
BZ2 was okay... but not fun on your own. I liked some of the designs. I recall putting 'stab' or something on the missile launchers, made them really good.
GroundControl... I played like 3 missions then I got bored... no basebuilding  ((
Earth 2*** I have some early version of this, but the lack of skirmish mode put it on the shelf quickly.
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« Last Edit: January 14, 2006, 09:06:35 am by Arne »
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JonoPorter
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Don't mess with the US.
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My Favorites:
TA SPRING - It beats the original TA.
DarkReign - The only game where artillery can be used as effective suppressing fire.
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« Last Edit: January 14, 2006, 09:23:52 am by BioSlayer »
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Deus Siddis
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"if your game was a stalemate, then neither of you knew how to form up an attack force or use abilities to defeat defenses... If one side is terran, at least, a forced stalemate is nearly impossible."
Not if the two sides use their attack forces to try and counter each other (defensively). The problem is, if someone doesn't win after a few major battles, nobody will be strong enough to win. It's like WWI with aliens.
"BZ2 is the Freespace 2 of RTSses... I still play it every now and then on the 'net..."
Same here.
"I can understand where you're coming from, Void; I can't tolerate even my favorites in the genre for too long without a break."
Which is where the Action/RTS genre comes in. It has a break built in. Sadly, since BZ2, I haven't seen anything that follows in its footsteps. Have I missed anything?
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