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Topic: Muslim caricatures (Read 27148 times)
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Audal
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The official position of the Freethought Communist Party regarding this issue is as follows:
The riots need to stop. While there would be no problem with a national apology, it should definitely not be required. And no government should enact any laws regarding expression in order to appease the rioters.
There is absolutely no reason for these riots. The rioters need to stop and ask themselves, "What would Mohammed do?". I am not religious, but I have read the Q'uran and I don't see this as justified based on my reading.
It is of interest to note that the cartoons responsible for the uproar are from Sept. 2005. The delayed reaction is because the cartoons were only recently brought to attention, when they would otherwise have faded into obscurity. Why is this? It would seem that Iran and Syria have decided that the time is right to start some trouble. Government propaganda broadcasts have been whipping the local population into a frenzy, and the message spreads.
If anything, these people are being sickly manipulated for political gain. Disgusting.
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communist
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And the requirement to become a communist is still that you must have less than 60 in IQ?
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StaffyStar
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Was that realy neccessary to say to him?
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Deus Siddis
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"Was that realy neccessary to say to him?"
I didn't say that, but it seems to me that what was said was done out of the desire to state a fact (and maybe for some entertainment value.) Anyone who thinks outsourcing MORE power to their government will give them more freedom, needs a mental exam. Personal Power = Personal Freedom, Pinkos! (Okay, I just had to say that, I added BZ1 to my super game archive a short while ago.)
If there are any commie riots as a result of this thread, just remember that I am only a republisher.
Go Tribalism!
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Deus Siddis
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"There are a lot of different forms of Communism."
I don't think so, from what I've read, Communism is opposite Capitalism, with Fascism and Socialism in between the two (Socialism being more capitalist and Fascism being closer to communism, if I recall.)
"Taking random, uninformed shots at people who support the communion idea. . ."
I personally am not taking shots at the "communion idea," whatever that phrase means to you. I probably would not attack "air theory" either, because that is just too vague- there are many theories one could have about air. I don't hate anything that's not every man, woman, and child for his/her/it/whatever's self. But from what I have seen of Communism, it just seems to trade a lesser evil for a greater one. The only system it really won against, were the old birth class systems, where you could not advance in rank or power, no matter how resourceful you were. Communism is mostly the same way, but at least then the people are treated maybe a little better in the beginning. The bottom line is though, compared to most systems, Communism puts the power (resources) in the hands of a few, and just expects them to be very moral with it. The people, without ownership of weapons, finances, land, food, etc., do not have that much they can do to correct a government that no longer aims to serve them.
There's not a whole lot that anyone can inform you of that you shouldn't already know. The success and failure of different concepts has been well illustrated throughout history. Communism over known time and space has not done real great, especially when compared to the significantly older Capitalism and Tribalism.
But then again, with 6 billion of us often emotional people out here, there might not be any good form of government that can really completely successfully handle our world's problems anymore. And of course, all the new natural disasters are uncontrollable.
"are telling us a lot more about themselves than their targets. "
Hopefully I didn't accidentally give away my social security number or anything. Blasted, capitalist identity thief pigs! 
From Religion to Riots, Political Orders to Natural Disasters, you can't find any more doomsday in one thread!
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Krulle
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*Hurghi*! Krulle is *spitting* again!
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Well, to say it Magritte style: here.
Basically: just because someone draws a picture of some arab-looking guy with a moustache and a turban, it still is only a picture.
The problem is somewhere else:
In Europe, a lot of newspapers have started to censor themselves, just because it's topic is something about islam and/or near-east. It even went so far, that a childs-book author did not find someone who was willing to illustrate a childs book (about mohammeds life) (it became a very cute book, btw).
So, Jyllands-Posten published an article about free-speech and self-censorship, and asked over 40 caricaturists to draw something. Only 12 of them sent a drawing to JP (out of fear, the others did not answer the request). The article was about loosing the hard-earning right of freedom of speech out of fear for retaliation.
And the article was published in september '05.
All this fuss about cold coffee...
The cultural misunderstanding happens, because the people in the near-east countries cannot understand, that the governments cannot influence newspapers here.
For them, it is basics of life, that any newspaper must have everything they publish be sanctioned by the government.
There, a lot of misunderstandings happen.
One is, that the JP is owned by the government. To clarify: it is NOT owned by any political party or institution.
Freedom of speech is, what the JP wanted to discuss about. And the problems of fear-inflicted self-censorship. Nothing else, nothing less.
CU,
Krulle
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Shiver
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"Taking random, uninformed shots at people who support the communion idea. . ."
Sounds like you are. I pretty much agree that communism = teh stinkest turd, but you're hijacking the topic to get on a soapbox and ramble because someone hinted in one line of text that they were some weird variation of communist.
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Deus Siddis
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"but you're hijacking the topic to get on a soapbox and ramble because someone hinted in one line of text that they were some weird variation of communist."
No. I didn't hijack the thread, a number of other posters started talking about communism after the muslim cartoon topic had mostly concluded. Then I semi seriously added to the new topic, since I thought it was funny that anyone would get offended at communism getting verbally attacked (since you know, the cold war has been over for a while.) Then I was accused of making uninformed shots, so I had to back up or "ramble" a little to try and describe where I was coming from.
But I don't mind getting out of the way of this thread's original topic, if there are those who wish to continue on the subject. So BOT- does anybody think there will be terrorism on european soil as a result of this cartoon? I think it would be unlikely, but then again, I never expected the French muslim riots, nor the current Muhbombhead ones.
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StaffyStar
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Now the government of Sweden recently closed the site of the swedish nationalist party. Obviously we dont have freedom of speech anymore!
I know that they are an extremist party, and even if I dont like their views im ready to fight for their rights to express them!
I party closing the internet site of another party! Thats SCARY!
They swedish government blamed this for beeing for the safety of their people.
(the nationalist party was going to show them pictures)
The same argument was used by the people who build the berlin wall...
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Zeep-Eeep
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Good Grief
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(Socialism being more capitalist and Fascism being closer to communism, if I recall.)
Generally, socialism is considered a middle of the road approach,
being slightly "left wing". Fascism is extreme "right-wing" while
communism (as a form of government) is extreme left-wing.
The capitalist system is generally viewed as a traditional liberial
or right-wing concept.
Of course, the left/right scale is overly simplified. In practice, the
spectrum usually loops around, bringing extreme left or right
ideas closer together.
When I refered to different types of communism, I was trying to
point out there is a huge difference between Marx theory,
Stalin-ism, Lenin-ism and Mao-ism. These are all large scale,
government approaches to communism. Which, as you
stated, have largely failed. Smaller scale communism has been
more successful, but it's not something the western media
likes to talk about. As North Americans, we are, after all,
encouraged to be capitalists.
So, if we're going to talk about communism and the IQs of
people who like communism, perhaps we should narrow
our focus to a particular type/implementation of the idea.
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What sound does a penguin make?
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Deus Siddis
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"Now the government of Sweden recently closed the site of the swedish nationalist party. Obviously we dont have freedom of speech anymore!"
You'll have to fill us in on what the swedish nationalist party is and what their goals are/were. I wouldn't worry about it too much either way though, because sweden is a smaller nation, and thus easier to manage. Plus it is heavily tied in to the rest of Europe. I don't think it is in danger of going down too dark a road (wasn't it ranked one of the five best places to live in the world?)
"Smaller scale communism has been
more successful, but it's not something the western media
likes to talk about."
I wouldn't think so, the media being made up of capitalist organizations. I still think it beats state media. And of course there's always the internet.
I have heard bits about small scale communism, but hey, like I mentioned earlier, it is easy to run smaller, less powerful nations. Power corrupts. They would probably run better under a capitalist, functioning system, if history be any guide. But if it is small scale, why not just dump communism and go for tribalism. It has quite a track record.
My theory, is that having too much of something in one place leads to trouble. Too much power in one place and shit happens, too many people in one place and shit happens. Right now, there are a lot of people and power (technology) out there, more so than has ever been recorded in history. I think the riots that were the focus of this thread, display a symptom of this imbalance.
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staffyStar
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yes actually the best place to live in Funny that someone outside of Sweden heard about that...
Now I even have the guts to admit to you Americans that our government is Socialistic....
And yes.... its a middle way.
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Arne
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Yak!
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Re: swedish party site
Yeah, you can't have some sort of arbitrary [these_guys_sucks_anyways] threshold value where freedom of speech ends.... like... oh, these guys get 7.892 on the we_don't_like_them scale, and 7.5 is the limit for freedom of speech... but the communist party only get 7.429, so they're okay!
I tried to get to the 'swedish security police' site (who shut down the party site) but it was down too, I wonder if that was just a coincidence or an attack.
In any way, this kind off censorship and right deprivement is like... bending over and failing to adress the real problem. This whole thing feels like some Trekkies going berserk over some Worf fanart where his forehead was drawn wrong, then the media suddenly has to be PC and sides with the Trekkies because their fictional character deserves respect too!
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staffyStar
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kommunism
(Everbody equal)
Cuba
Soviet union
North Korea
Socialism
(A little bit of giving to the poor)
Sweden
Denmark
Liberal
(Everybody should have equal possibilities in life)
Germany
Great Britain
Belgium
The Netherlands
Conservative
(The parents you have might be critical for how long you can live, and what kind of education you get.)
USA
Me myself is liberal. However I think both Socialism and Conservative is OK systems.
If I lived in the USA Im sure I would be a Conservative like u all. Because Im not an extremist.
The people that's liberal in the US now would problaby be communists if they moved to europe.
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