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Poll
Question: How baddy you you want to see the crew points changed to hit points?
I'm good, leave it the way it is   -23 (79.3%)
Meah, either way   -5 (17.2%)
I can't stand it, it has to change   -1 (3.4%)
Total Voters: 27

Author Topic: Hit Points vs. Crew  (Read 6429 times)
guesst
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Hit Points vs. Crew
« on: February 15, 2006, 11:21:31 pm »

As this seems to be a point which comes up over and over again, let's hear it. Keep in mind you vote will count for absolutely nothing as you probably do not get the final decision, but I'm curious to know.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2006, 11:28:42 pm »

Change what? You buy crew guys at the starbase. Buy too many and price goes up because the number of worker bees is dwindling. I like the idea of the crew damage bar switching to the overall hull integrity of the ship, but how are you going to justify the costs going up and down (Slaves sold to Druuge, Shofixti influx)? Plus, it wouldn't be the same game if you messed with it like that.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2006, 11:34:54 pm »

So, chiming in my 2 cents, it seems silly to me that this is such a sore point for so many people. It seems like it's mostly the younger players who want this to be more of a space flight simulator, rather than a game. However, they're totally cool with FPS's where you step on a first aid kit and immedately recover your health without any of the bothersome first aid or recovery time. (Let's face it, you're not going to be 100% after you 60th bullet wound even with a first aid kit.)

Personally I think this is a case of taking the whole thing too seriously, which could be bad. Taking a game too seriouly tends to darken it, which I'm getting tired of seeing. Prince of Persia, Jax, Sonic the Hedgehog, even OddWorld which was pretty dark to begin with all got darker as they started taking the game too seriously. Yes, we're acting out violence and destruction upon others here, but that doesn't mean we can't keep it light.

StarControl is a tale of woe and death as two waring factions battle over a weapon of dominance. Pretty scary, no? If the creaters were taking the game too seriouly we would not have had the ZotFotPik, or Utwig. The Spathi wouldn't be humerously cowering as much as actually cowering. In the shadow of the Ur-Quan doctrinal war only the ignorant would be able to light-heartly joke about lying in an alien's bed. There's a hundred other examples I could site, but can't think of at the time, but the short version is StarControl was not so much a tragety that it couldn't be a comedy, and can it continue to be so if we keep trying to moor it to reality?
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2006, 12:16:52 am »

Anyway, the Syreen throw a monkey wrench into anything but crew.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2006, 12:30:10 am »

Of course, this would need to be in a branch, but I wouldn't mind revamped combat rules with hit points, tactical combat, and the removal of little gravity bodies  Wink

As for people knocking the idea, you don't know until you try it, which so far has been impossible.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2006, 01:06:31 am by Hurleybird » Logged
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2006, 12:48:33 am »

I can see something like hit points being implemented while keeping crew. For example, you could have the hit points regenerate, the rate depending on how many crew are present. This also provides more opportunity for gameplay balance by giving certain ships a maximum number of hit points. It wouldn't "break" the Syreen because by getting more crew they can regenerate their hit points faster. Or something.

I haven't really thought this through or anything, just an idea I'm tossing out there.

EDIT: Apparently Hurleybird posted this idea in another thread which I just now read. >.<
I guess it's obvious that I suport the notion, huh? =)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2006, 12:50:23 am by Matticus » Logged

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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2006, 01:48:58 am »

If you buy negativ crew, that is sell more crew than you buy, will
the price drop?
I've often wondered what would happen if you used the
Syreen to sell a few thousand crew back to the station.
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Kohr-Ah Death
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2006, 08:13:13 am »

If you buy negativ crew, that is sell more crew than you buy, will
the price drop?
I've often wondered what would happen if you used the
Syreen to sell a few thousand crew back to the station.


well you could always get your ship full of crew compartments (but not fill them up), save, hex edit the save to give you full crew, and then sell them back off multiple times to see if something happens...


or you could look at the source code and see very quickly that it don't work that way  Grin
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2006, 04:37:33 pm »

I guess if you were going to apply logic to it, (which as I've pointed out before, should not be used in conjunction with SC2 often), I guess you could say giving the Starship crew back in the shape of Spathi, Ilwrath, and Ur-quan isn't exactly going to improve morale. ;p
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2006, 10:30:51 pm »

I can totally understand why crew = ship hull integrity, besides keeping it simple. There are a lot of crew-dependent abilities, and using them a HP is a nice easy fix. The Syreen is the most glaring example, of course, but there's also the Orz, Druuge, Ur Quan, and Mycon to consider. After all, why would a Dreadnought lose hull integrity any time it launches a fighter? Are the little buggers actually carving holes in the back of the ship to escape? Wink

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Realism has no place in a game where even the most threatening species in the galaxy will occasionally joke around with you before they try to kill you.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2006, 07:19:47 am »

You seem to be saying that crew as hit points is fine while giving a few reasons why it actually isn't. I think?

I agree that it doesn't really make sense for the Ur-Quan to lose hull integrity when they launch fighters, but that's not why I'm interested in exploring this kind of change. It's not about logic so much as it's about shaking up the gameplay a bit perhaps adding some depth or just plain changing things around. The fact that it would make more sense to add hit points or a hull rating in addition to crew is just a side benefit. Obviously such things must be considered very carefully. It doesn't benefit the discussion much to say it isn't a good idea without mentioning a good reason why.

One of the disadvantages I see is that if Player 1 is piloting a fast ship and it gets damaged, he could just avoid Player 2's ship entirely until the hull damage has been fixed, which could potentially bork ship to ship combat entirely unless other elements are altered or new balancing elements are brought into play. Still, I think the ultimate measure of how successful the addition of hit points would be can only be determined after someone does it (perhaps as an UQM mod) and people try it out. Really, does it hurt anything to give it a chance?
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2006, 08:53:44 am »

I always cherished the thought that in the future they developed a system used by everyone in the galaxy that automatically transports crew into the space between the ship and the weapon about to impact the ship to insure that the paint won’t even get scratched. Or that the crew jump out of airlocks in order to accomplish the same goal.

I know it’s not realistic but it sure is an amusing thought.


Now here is an attempt to explain it using realism.

Here are a few assumptions:
All ships are nearly invincible, except for airtight compartments.
All ships have self annihilation circuits.

When a ship is hit a compartment looses pressure, causing an explosive decompression that kills the crew inside. This exposes more airtight compartments to possible damage. For some reason the most critical systems are always on the compartments closest to the exterior, making the crew always in a position to get hit. The ships self annihilation activate when all friendly life forms are dead to prevent the capture of the ship.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 05:44:49 pm »

Realism has no place in a game where even the most threatening species in the galaxy will occasionally joke around with you before they try to kill you.

Gee, I don't remember the Pkunk ever joking with you.


Smiley


Seriously, I don't remember either form of Ur-Quan ever joking with you.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2006, 10:46:39 pm »

While they don't joke, there are many responses written to be humorous, like the infamous "We did.  You did.  Yes we can. No."

I think that counts, anyway.
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Re: Hit Points vs. Crew
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2006, 10:54:52 pm »

Back on topic, you could always use the Star Trek defense: No one has invented seatbelts yet, so crew are getting concussions and head trauma constantly  Grin
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