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Author Topic: The upcoming energy crisis.  (Read 25626 times)
XR4-IT
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2006, 07:31:49 pm »

I saw some thing no dangling cables from satellites into earth’s magnetic field to produce power. The show that I saw it on made it some like they got a lot more power then they could handle in the experiment. I guess that the trouble would be getting to power back to work.
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JonoPorter
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2006, 09:08:38 am »

I recall that there were also ideas about placing large solar collectors in space, and transmiting the energy to earth through low frequency radiation (micro waves I think) - which is harmless to humans, and is received by very large arrays and then converted into energy - somehow.

Have you heard the story of they kid who thought he could dry off his 2 pet cats by putting them in a microwave? I won’t go into detail, but he had 2 less cats and one rather nasty microwave to clean up.

EDIT:
just found this:
http://kittenkiller.ytmnd.com/
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 09:43:52 am by BioSlayer » Logged

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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2006, 11:50:25 am »

Smiley

How expensive is energy nowadays, btw ?

In the Netherlands, one liter of gasoline costs about 1.45 euros (3.7 liters go into one american gallon, and 1 euro is about 1.2 dollars ) .
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Halleck
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2006, 12:55:54 pm »

Here in california, gas is around $2.80-$3.00 USD per gallon.
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2006, 09:30:02 pm »

And here in Jersey, where it's pretty cheap compared to most of the rest of the US, it's running ~$2.50 - $2.75 a gallon.

And after a quick calculation, I must say I don't envy the European price at the pump. Small wonder the Smart Cars are so popular.
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Death 999
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2006, 09:46:08 pm »

I recall that there were also ideas about placing large solar collectors in space, and transmiting the energy to earth through low frequency radiation (micro waves I think) - which is harmless to humans, and is received by very large arrays and then converted into energy - somehow.

Have you heard the story of they kid who thought he could dry off his 2 pet cats by putting them in a microwave? I won’t go into detail, but he had 2 less cats and one rather nasty microwave to clean up.

Microwave ovens use a frequency that is tuned to interact very strongly with water. The microwaves that would be used for this purpose would be tuned to interact very weakly with water.
Just saying that it uses microwaves doesn't mean much -- the term "microwave" covers a factor of 1000 in frequency. Meanwhile, the visible spectrum covers a bit less than a factor of 2, and look how much variation there is in colors!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 09:48:37 pm by Death 999 » Logged
Zeep-Eeep
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2006, 03:58:40 am »

Canadian gas is, on the east coast, around $1.20 per litre. Which,
I suppose, is around $4.00 per gallon.
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2006, 03:48:45 am »

I'm with nuclear energy 100%, no carbon emissions and it can be put in place today which is critical as we should have reduced greenhouse gas emmisions about 30 years ago. There is I believe, enough nuclear fuel in the ground and in the bloody weapons we have, to supply more than enough energy until we actually get fusion working as a feasible option.

Current estimates put that at 2030 at the earliest, so until then, nuclear power is the only way to go. (The costs of setting up renewable energy facilities to meet the world energy demand are astronomical)

Additionally, nuclear power efficiency and safety is incredibly advanced compared to the days of Chernobyl. The Chernobyl incident was caused by politics as much as it was by flimsy construction.
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2006, 05:12:26 am »

I'm with nuclear energy 100%, no carbon emissions and it can be put in place today which is critical as we should have reduced greenhouse gas emmisions about 30 years ago. There is I believe, enough nuclear fuel in the ground and in the bloody weapons we have, to supply more than enough energy until we actually get fusion working as a feasible option.

Current estimates put that at 2030 at the earliest, so until then, nuclear power is the only way to go. (The costs of setting up renewable energy facilities to meet the world energy demand are astronomical)

Additionally, nuclear power efficiency and safety is incredibly advanced compared to the days of Chernobyl. The Chernobyl incident was caused by politics as much as it was by flimsy construction.

One tiny little problem with your wonderful solution.

Widespread nuclear energy also means a whole lot of nuclear waste. Nuclear waste last I checked (and depending on the type of waste produced) takes a few thousand years to decay down to safe levels. Finding a safe disposal site that wont contaminate the surrounding area is difficult in and of itself.

Carbon, though it might trigger more dangerous effects, can be removed from the atmosphere much more quickly then it takes for radioactive waste to decay.

Point in form: Nuclear isnt really an option either. We need to step up to fusion as soon as humanly possible and skip nuclear altogether.
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Zeep-Eeep
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2006, 02:29:50 pm »

Um, fusion is nuclear.

I think Canada (and the US) would do well to observe countries
like Denmark who are currently moving their systems over
the wind and solar power. Last time I checked, their energy
came from about 30% renewable/green sources. Surely
we could get a similar system in place before 2030?
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XR4-IT
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2006, 05:55:43 pm »

Quote from: Cronos link=topic=2859.msg37668#msg37668 Point in form:
Nuclear isnt really an option either. We need to step up to fusion as soon as humanly possible and skip nuclear altogether.

Fusion isn't worth it. I takes far more power to get the reaction started and then just to contain the reaction then you will ever get out of it.

You can at lest reuse fission reactor cores, I don’t know why recycling radioactive material is illegal in the United States, but it is and I think that its stupid because other countries do it and it works for them.

Also it just so happens that the guy that founded Green Peace had a change of hart as to nuclear power, saying that it was the best way for the USA to go.

One more thing, burning oil and coal puts a tone of radioactive particles in the air.     
« Last Edit: April 27, 2006, 05:57:31 pm by XR4-IT » Logged

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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2006, 07:25:20 pm »

I'm well aware that fusion is a form of nuclear energy as is fission.

You're talking about fusion as if it's progressed as far as it will ever go. Improving techniques and research will make fusion energy not only more efficient but eventually more practicable as a true replacement for our current energy generation methods.

Saying we should give up on fusion because it's not an effective power source currently is absurd. Consider the humble car engine as an example. Modern motors are more energy efficient today then they were say, 30 years ago. Those in turn were more efficient then they were 30 years thence, and 30 years before that people scoffed at motorised transport.

Times change, technology moves forwards. Fusion is the future. And I never said that burning coal and oil were clean alternatives. I was stating that it is easier to put up with a somewhat higher proportion of natural radio isotopes in the atmosphere then it was to deal with thousands of tonnes of nuclear waste that has to be stored for more then three times the length of human history, guarded against corrosion, earthquakes and be checked and rechecked constantly to make sure nothing goes missing in addition to the costs of maintaining a storage facility for that period of time.
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Death 999
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2006, 11:14:26 pm »

One tiny little problem with your wonderful solution.

Widespread nuclear energy also means a whole lot of nuclear waste. Nuclear waste last I checked (and depending on the type of waste produced) takes a few thousand years to decay down to safe levels.

Not if you use it in a fast reactor. See my posts earlier in this thread.

And XR4-IT wasn't talking about a somewhat higher proportion of natural radioisotopes in the air. He was saying that burning coal releases uranium and other heavy elements into the air, and these elements are, as usual, radioactive... and that, per Joule of energy generated, you get more radiation released by burning coal than you do by running a nuclear power plant. And to boot, this radiation is spread out all over the place rather than kept in an out-of-the-way place.
If you're complaining about the radiation hazard of nuclear waste, where it's unlikely anyone is going to actually go there, you should also complain about the nuclear material that is being sprinkled all over the planet by the coal plants.


Lastly,  to come in on Cronos' side... XR4-IT, the ITER is expected to run a net energy gain from a fusion reaction, and that's going to be finished next year. Of course, it's not very economical at this point, but we're over the hump and into the 'marginal energy production of running the device is positive' range. Just, it takes a lot more energy to build the thing than it's going to, on net, produce over its lifetime.

But we are getting there. Finally.
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XR4-IT
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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2006, 11:20:20 pm »

Fusion will be good when it gets here, but practical fusion power is still some ways off. Right now we can produce plenty of power from fission reactions.

We do not necessarily have to have nuclear “waste” when dealing with fission plants. The “waste” can be put through a proliferation process that will make useable power cores. Nuclear proliferation has been band in the United States and therefore we have to go about storing old fission rods with less then safe methods.    

  Sorry wrong waist - waste
« Last Edit: April 28, 2006, 05:04:48 pm by XR4-IT » Logged

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Re: The upcoming energy crisis.
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2006, 02:51:26 pm »


One tiny little problem with your wonderful solution.

Widespread nuclear energy also means a whole lot of nuclear waste. Nuclear waste last I checked (and depending on the type of waste produced) takes a few thousand years to decay down to safe levels. Finding a safe disposal site that wont contaminate the surrounding area is difficult in and of itself.

Carbon, though it might trigger more dangerous effects, can be removed from the atmosphere much more quickly then it takes for radioactive waste to decay.

Point in form: Nuclear isnt really an option either. We need to step up to fusion as soon as humanly possible and skip nuclear altogether.

Nuclear waste can be harmlessly stored in many places. Under the circumstances, we really have no alternative. None.

Nuclear fusion won't mature for quiet some time. Either we can store nuclear waste, or watch our children starve and die of disease as the worlds farmland becomes unuseable.

Nuclear fusion though, contrary to what was earlier said, will most likely become viable eventually. It will be worth it one day.
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