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Author Topic: A random thought about the Kzer-Za  (Read 7479 times)
Kizor.
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A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« on: March 18, 2006, 02:51:13 am »

The Ur-Quan have nigh-Precursorian levels of technology and access to a great number of ancient devices, and their ships are powerful enough to be called "Planetary Siege Units" (SC1) even unsupported. Hasn't it been considered odd that the red fighters the Dreadnought launch are utter deathtraps?

The fighters are weak, just maneuverable enough to avoid planets and have a very limited source of not only fuel, but life support. The Orz marines have radically better results without even using spacecraft. So why this huge disparity? I've come to one conclusion:
The fighters are crewed by the slave races. When launching, they're arming non-Ur-Quans and placing them in close proximity to their own ships.

So when your plasmoid plows through a swarm of the red craft because they move too clumsily to get out of the way, consider that this is a demonstration of how much power the Ur-Quan are willing to give the other races, even when larger amounts could radically increase the power of their craft, even when they're losing the second Doctrinal Conflict.

I found that interesting.
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Halleck
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2006, 11:24:29 am »

I think it's fairly obvious that the fighters are slaved by crew races once you know the fact that there is only one Ur-Quan aboard each dreadnought. My personal theory is that dreadnoughts are staffed with the members of former thrall races from other sectors of the galaxy. I doubt that the 'quans would want to leave autonomous thrall races alone, so they can either slave-shield them or use them to crew dreadnoughts (or perhaps a combination.)
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2006, 11:56:00 am »

The fighters could be unmanned, and remote-controlled by one slave each aboard the Dreadnought.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2006, 01:01:10 pm »

That's a bit counterintuitive... how would you explain the death of said crew member upon annihilation of his fighter?

I suppose the Ur-Quan could have a policy of executing slaves that get their fighters crashed.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2006, 01:02:43 pm by Halleck » Logged


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Kizor.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2006, 08:45:25 pm »

Right. It's common knowledge/assumption that slaves crew the fighters; what intrigued me is that the Ur-Quan are (seemingly) driven to cripple the effectiveness of their own ships by their paranoia and xenophobia.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2006, 09:25:18 pm »

That's a bit counterintuitive... how would you explain the death of said crew member upon annihilation of his fighter?

I suppose the Ur-Quan could have a policy of executing slaves that get their fighters crashed.
No need for that. The crew member would just have become useless (having nothing to do anymore) and wouldn't count anymore.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2006, 05:21:43 pm »

No need for that. The crew member would just have become useless (having nothing to do anymore) and wouldn't count anymore.

Again, not a terribly logical principle to act by... what if there are only 10 crew left when the first fighter is launched?  Any slave who loses a fighter would still be valuable, since there are more unused fighters he could remote-control.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2006, 10:59:42 pm »

Well, they're slaves, aren't they? Probably chained to their terminal, controlling just one thing. Tongue
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 12:42:48 am »

Well, they're slaves, aren't they? Probably chained to their terminal, controlling just one thing. Tongue

One hit and *kpow* sparks explode in their face and -1 crew. I like it.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 10:54:32 pm »

Except for the issue that living fighters don't count as crew on-board the dreadnaught.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2006, 12:32:32 am »

That's just a matter of administration.

It's just another instance of "Why does the captain get killed last?". "Why does the Ur-Quan captain gets killed when there are still fighters pilots left?"
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2006, 06:45:00 am »

I don't see why there's any reason to think that the fighters must be remotely piloted, since the crew lost/regained thing makes *way* more sense if you assume the crew leaves on the fighter. Why is a crew member "useful" when he's not piloting a fighter *before* the fighter blows up, but then no longer "useful" and now counts toward how long the ship has before it explodes? Not that the abstraction of crew = HP makes much sense in the first place, but it makes a lot more sense if you assume it's literal, and take the game at its word when it says that something that makes the ship lose crew literally causes it to lose crew (launching a fighter, launching a Space Marine, abandoning ship for a Syreen call).

In any case, I don't see why it's necessarily true that remotely piloting the fighter is a better explanation for the clumsy fighters than the simple explanation that Ur-Quan Lords don't want to give their slave races too much power and purposely made the fighters as crippled and cheap as they could.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2006, 08:21:52 am »

Noone said it was a good explanation, let alone that it's "necessarilly true" that it's better than some other explanation.
You shouldn't take this whole matter so seriously. It "is" the way TFB wants it to be. And chances are they haven't given this much thought at all.
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2006, 03:46:52 am »

Excuse me?!!! (Yes im back) They are not slaves,heres very deffinite proof. What do u think happens to the Thraddash when u send them to help the Kzer-ah fight the Kohr-ah. They got obliterated by both sides cause the Ur-qaun will not allow other Races to intervene thier doctrinal war. Fighting slave or not. Meanin thier Ships would be practically useless when the 2nd doctrinal war came along cause they would have to either kill or send away 2.9 of every 3 pilots they had. Which would be dumb and the 2nd doctrinal war wouldnt even last for a week then.
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C. Bob
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Re: A random thought about the Kzer-Za
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2006, 05:11:20 pm »

Having slaves is having slaves--it's part of the Kzer-Za advantage. As long as they fight with their own Dreadnoughts and ensure that it was an Ur-Quan that gave the orders to kill, I can't see how they would have any objections with using slaves on their dreadnought.

Additionally, I'd imagine the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za could plausibly crew their own dreadnoughts. I see no reason to believe that there would be more Kohr-Ah by default, although it is possible.

On fighters being flown to start with:

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It also has the capability of launching pairs of autonomous, laser-equipped fighters. Remember that each fighter represents a departing crew member.

Autonomous could mean any number of things. In this case, it seems to say, essentially, that the fighters are not glorified torpedoes--the "departing crew member" bit similarly implies that fighters are crewed to some extent. Besides, assuming convoluted things to get around fighters being directly flown violates Occam's Razor. It would be nonsensical to execute slaves for getting their fighters destroyed, or preventing them from flying other fighters after that one's gone, and the Ur-Quan aren't like that. Their "logic" may leave a bit to be desired in some fields, but they generally have good reasons for everything they do. It doesn't seem likely that they would purposefully do stupid things here just to prove "something" to their slaves.

-Bob
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