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Author Topic: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!  (Read 27062 times)
Ivan Ivanov
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2006, 12:56:11 pm »

This is rather interesting and all too common. The moment I bring up the resurrection of Jesus Christ, people try to attack my faith with statements that are either not relevant or generally insulting.

Could it be because you started talking about Jesus' existance and resurrection like it was a universally accepted fact, expecting that people should respect your faith even tough you cannot respect their leack thereof?

I'm sorry if I came of as insulting.
I just wanted to state that, as far as I'm concerned, we might as well be talking about Brian Boitano's time travelling adventures, and ask you what was the point of bringing up details of the story of Jesus?
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2006, 10:55:31 pm »

John 19:33-34:
Quote
33But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
Slightly interesting side notes:
The Romans used to break the legs of people who were still alive to speed up their deaths.  Without their legs to support them, the strain on the torso from their arms/shoulders being tied (nailed) into place would suffocate them.  The fact that they only stabbed him meant he was dead. 
Also, many people believe that the "water" that came out with the blood was fluid from the pericardial sac around the heart, thus leading to BioSlayer's original conviction regarding the heart-stabbing.  For this fluid to have been visible along with blood, he would have had to have lost a lot of blood (not surprising since he was nailed to the cross unlike most of the others sentenced to death in this fashion).
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2006, 01:36:34 am »

Could it be because you started talking about Jesus' existance and resurrection like it was a universally accepted fact, expecting that people should respect your faith even tough you cannot respect their leack thereof?
In this thread there was mention of Jesus and that he died. In my mind you canít talk about Jesusí death without talking about his resurrection. So I mentioned his resurrection in reply to the mention of his death.

How have I disrespected yours or others' lack of faith?
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2006, 02:29:20 am »

In this thread there was mention of Jesus and that he died. In my mind you canít talk about Jesusí death without talking about his resurrection. So I mentioned his resurrection in reply to the mention of his death.

You just avoided the point.  What does the resurrection have to do with the rest of this thread?

Quote
How have I disrespected yours or others' lack of faith?

Because you bring it up as if it were fact, and again without being germane?

The only 'rather interesting' bit to this whole affair is that you consider your faith under attack when someone raises facts that run counter to your faith  yet didn't consider yourself to have been attacking anyone else's faith when you brought up your own set of 'facts' in the first place.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 02:59:04 am by Baltar » Logged
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2006, 03:26:57 am »

What does the resurrection have to do with the rest of this thread?
Let me restate your question in a way that it appears to me.

"Why are bringing up a fundamental part of Christianity in a thread discussing a person who converted to Christianity?"
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2006, 04:15:46 am »

Let me restate your question in a way that it appears to me.

"Why are bringing up a fundamental part of Christianity in a thread discussing a person who converted to Christianity?"

Yeah?  And?

The particular tangent you interjected in had to do with martyrdom.  In that context, why where you trying to make a distinction between Jesus and Ghandi?

Now let me restate your point as it appears to me:  you deliberately interjected an irrelevant statement of Christian dogma precisely because it is irrelevant, would provoke a response, and thus you could hop on your "oh lawd we are so oppressed!" soapbox.  Did I get that right?
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2006, 10:21:16 pm »

I think Bio had a point. I mean, Ghandi was killed for
preaching peace. So was Jesus. However, if Jesus really
came back from the dead (as Bio points out) then it
was a different sort of sacrifice. As far as I know, Ghandi
didn't pull off any resurrections. Is one really giving
their life for the cause if they can return from death?

Aren't we neglecting the fact that, according to his religion (Hindu, at least I assume), Gandhi would simply be reincarnated at some later date? I suppose that means he was resurrected as well.

Quote
I think you may miss interpret or miss understand what the sacrifice was and is. The Jewish community before Christ came had to do periodic sacrifices. Jesus came as the ultimate Lamb of God and was sacrificed so our sins can be forgiven, the last sacrifice. All you have to do is believe in him to be forgiven and saved.

Now, speaking as someone who would know, the Jewish community would give a very different reason why they stopped making burnt offerings. We're not buying what you're selling, thank you, try the house down the road.
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2006, 01:40:08 am »

Okay, I'll bite, why don't people in the Jewish community give
burnt offerings? The smell? The waste?

As for the reincarnation vs. resurrection, I think they're two
notably different events. In the first, one returns to Earth with
no memory, in a different form/body and starts from scratch
(as a baby). With resurrection, one simply comes back to
the life/body/memories one had prior to death. Also, the
part of the resurrection many Christians like is the idea that
one does not die again after being resurrected.
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2006, 04:53:29 am »

I think Bio had a point. I mean, Ghandi was killed for
preaching peace. So was Jesus. However, if Jesus really
came back from the dead (as Bio points out) then it
was a different sort of sacrifice. As far as I know, Ghandi
didn't pull off any resurrections. Is one really giving
their life for the cause if they can return from death?


U guys seem to think of death as simple ure dead its not. U must remember in christianity we believe that our souls will continue in Heaven or Hell. Or in the case of the Catholics they believe in Purgatory,which i'd like just one Catholic show me in the Bible where it speaks of purgatory?But anyways.And his death was not just any other. He was put through the most painful of tortures,The Bible tells us he wasnt even recognizable as a man when he died.Can u imagine?!!! Watch The Passion of the christ.And look at him near the end hes still recognizable which means it coulda been even more gruesome.

The point of him dieing for our sins is that he was SINLESS and didnt deserve to die.But he died so we could go to heaven he sacrificed himself. He shed the most innocent of blood that ever was on this Earth.

And i'd like to congradulate u bio,for being very well spoken.Well i tend to think so anyways.(I as well believe in christianity very strongly).
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianit
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2006, 06:13:49 am »

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You *campers* think of *dissoving* and it *dissolves*! It is not. You must remember. In this *game* our *fingers* will *slide* in *above* or *below*. The other *silly babies* think you *smell* then *slide*! This is not the *game* we play! It matters not. *Squishy* one is *dissolving* like no other. So *fat* and *frumple*! Can you imagine? If you could *smell* our *special game* you could *open*! These are *fat* words.
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2006, 06:14:04 pm »

I think its great how Christians love to fight each other just as much as they love to fight others. One person reads the Bible and interprets it differently other people so they start arguing about what the Bible actually says. I served as a Christian missionary for two years so trust me I know how that goes, every one is willing to tell me whatís wrong with what I believe, and while there at it they go on and tell me why they donít like there neighbor (How Christian of them).

So any how I guess that it dose not surprise me that the debate on the resurrection of Jesus got started because of how zealous any one is about there beliefs.

As to Gandhi he probably will be resurrected because according to my beliefs all mankind will rise from the dead, and then assigned a glory according to their faithfulness (being judged by there knowledge of the law).  See 1 Corinthians 15 : 39 -43

39
All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.

40
[There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

41
[There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.

42
So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

Any how thatís how my beliefs work, and I think that Gandhi and others are going to be pretty well off in the next life ( better then most Christians I know)

I like to hear what other people believe so give me your thoughts.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 08:40:30 pm by XR4-IT » Logged

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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2006, 10:09:02 pm »

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Aren't we neglecting the fact that, according to his religion (Hindu, at least I assume), Gandhi would simply be reincarnated at some later date? I suppose that means he was resurrected as well.

This whole comparision between Gandhi and Jesus is ridiculous. They were both radically non-violent and both had big followings. The similarity ends there.

Gandhi we almost definitely know existed (you never 100% know someone unless you've met him/her) Jesus probably existed. Gandhi wished to remove occupiers (and succeeded,) Jesus did not. Gandhi was bald, Jesus probably was not. Gandi did not perform "miracles," Jesus was said to have. Gandhi is not the center of a religion, Jesus is. Etc., etc., etc,. . .


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Now, speaking as someone who would know, the Jewish community would give a very different reason why they stopped making burnt offerings.

If you really know why, just say why.

Maybe there was a famine, and those who kept up with the sacrifices went extinct from starvation.


Quote
In the first, one returns to Earth with
no memory, in a different form/body and starts from scratch
(as a baby).

You can have memories, memorilessness is not a requirement for reincarnation. I think it sometimes/always is so in the old celtic religion(s). In fact, I can't think of any religion that believes in reincarnation, that also believes that nobody can remember back.


Quote
But anyways. And his death was not just any other.

He might not have died. Like I said before, using certain natural potions, one can seem very dead. He was perhaps buried alive (as many have been throughout history) and the let out by followers. I wouldn't put it past him, he was quite the warlock, with all kinds of skills and understanding of medicine (from what is legend.)


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I like to hear what other people believe so give me your thoughts.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "glory." Does that mean uniqueness, merit, honor, holiness?
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2006, 10:45:32 pm »


He might not have died. Like I said before, using certain natural potions, one can seem very dead. He was perhaps buried alive (as many have been throughout history) and the let out by followers. I wouldn't put it past him, he was quite the warlock, with all kinds of skills and understanding of medicine (from what is legend.)


Quote
I like to hear what other people believe so give me your thoughts.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "glory." Does that mean uniqueness, merit, honor, holiness?

All we really know about Jesus is what is in the Bible and other holy books, and from what is written in those books we know he had died and took up his body again.

Christians gain understanding that what is in the Bible and other scripture (ancient or otherwise) are truth because of conformation from the Holy Ghost.

We believe that the Holy Ghost is sent to men form God to comfort us, give us direction in our lives, and teach us truth.

As to my uses of the word glory, think of it as receiving different levels of Heaven after the resurrection of the body. The level of glory one attains is based on our merits in mortality, and our faith in the Atonement of the Christ the Holy Messiah. The Atonement is the sacrifice that Jesus made for mankind and through repentance and obedience to the laws of God one can be washed clean through the sacrifice that Christ made for us; therefore we can be admitted clean to stand in the presence of God after the time of the resurrection.
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2006, 11:27:53 pm »

Okay, I'll bite, why don't people in the Jewish community give
burnt offerings? The smell? The waste?

The reason has more to do with practicality than anything else. In the days of the first and second temples, people had a place to gather to make these offerings, and a dedicated, on-site clergy to care for both the location the sacrifices were made, and the rites and customs necessary to sanctify the sacrifices themselves. However, with the destruction of the second temple, the Diaspora (which scattered the Jewish people across the world), and the general move away from an agrarian society and toward other ways of life, making burnt offerings of crops and livestock was considered an impractical and outdated practice, and was discontinued. In their place, the Rabbis suggest mitzvot (good deds) and tzedukah (roughly translated, charity) instead.

Quote
As for the reincarnation vs. resurrection, I think they're two
notably different events. In the first, one returns to Earth with
no memory, in a different form/body and starts from scratch
(as a baby). With resurrection, one simply comes back to
the life/body/memories one had prior to death. Also, the
part of the resurrection many Christians like is the idea that
one does not die again after being resurrected.

Actually, according to Hindu beliefs, once a soul reaches a sufficient state of enlightenment through repeated reincarnations, they are able to retain all of their memories of all of their past lives. Now, I don't know what he thought of himself exactly, but you can bet his followers believed he had reached that state.

Mind you, I've known some Christians who take great offense at the idea of reincarnation. The reason was twofold:

1) Coming back from the dead was something special that only Jesus could and should do, not something that can happen to any old schlub.
2) It flies in the face of the idea of going to heaven/hell, and the fear of living free from the terrible, crushing guilt overrode their distaste for said guilt.

Anyway, I suspect that this will be the last comment I make in this particular thread; some people find my tongue-in-cheek attitude and devil's advocacy offensive when placed in the context of religion. I, for one, can't figure out why, but I will retire for now in the interest of pretending to be Switzerland. Tongue
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Re: Afghani Man being setenced to death for converting from Islam to Christianity!!!
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2006, 11:47:02 pm »

Quote
All we really know about Jesus is what is in the Bible and other holy books, and from what is written in those books we know he had died and took up his body again.
Christians gain understanding that what is in the Bible and other scripture (ancient or otherwise) are truth because of conformation from the Holy Ghost.
We believe that the Holy Ghost is sent to men form God to comfort us, give us direction in our lives, and teach us truth.
As to my uses of the word glory, think of it as receiving different levels of Heaven after the resurrection of the body. The level of glory one attains is based on our merits in mortality, and our faith in the Atonement of the Christ the Holy Messiah. The Atonement is the sacrifice that Jesus made for mankind and through repentance and obedience to the laws of God one can be washed clean through the sacrifice that Christ made for us; therefore we can be admitted clean to stand in the presence of God after the time of the resurrection.

Long definition. Glory = Good (ie not evil then.) So why did you christians switch from believing in reincarnation, to believing in going from one life on to heaven? Also, what is the retirement plan for you and your competitors-- In short, what is the Christian concept of heaven like exactly, and how does it compare to the Islamic or Jewish Paradise/Reincarnation?


Quote
Anyway, I suspect that this will be the last comment I make in this particular thread; some people find my tongue-in-cheek attitude and devil's advocacy offensive when placed in the context of religion. I, for one, can't figure out why, but I will retire for now in the interest of pretending to be Switzerland.

I don't think anyone here has a problem with what you've said on this thread (that I can recall, it's covered many topics.) But stick around, it's a religious thread, so it will eventually blow up in everyone's face, which is good if you have a good afterlife waiting for you (so far, mine sucks.) Smiley
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 11:52:38 pm by Deus_Siddis » Logged
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