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Author Topic: Star Control : TimeWarp  (Read 13763 times)
Deus Siddis
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2006, 05:11:31 am »

Quote
The two best fan melee engines are Star Control Online

I didn't know there was such a project. Is it still alive?
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2006, 11:20:30 pm »



I didn't know there was such a project. Is it still alive?

Hmmm, good question..

Well I DL'd SC Online From the now and forever clones page:

http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/files/clones.shtml

Interestingly, the supposid links  to Time Warp and SCOL 's "home page" takes you to the same spot.. A plain text document that looks like perl scripting.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 11:22:45 pm by RTyp06 » Logged
Culture20
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2006, 04:27:13 am »

SC online has one thing TW doesn't, modability. Yes it's rather limited but you can replace all graphics and sounds easily by simply changing files in the appropriate folders. Unfortunately you cannot change the weapons/special behaviors and ship sizes. However,  it's still cool to see you own artwork flying around with matching captain animations.
Eh...  what?  Even without a compiler, there's more modability with TW:  graphics & music (allegro .dat file), ships' stats (.ini), (sub)game settings (.ini).

Get rid of that huge, grey, rectangular ship that crashes the game, if you haven't already.
I think Tau's ship fits the SC style quite nicely (it's modeled after a popular ship type in a sci-fi series, after all).  I would say file a bugzilla entry about the crashing you see, but I let "bugs" go down a couple years back...  Cry
TW probably will never get rid of the better fan-ships.  If you're looking for a leaner-meaner version, there's always TW-light.  I haven't looked at it in a while,  But I know the intention was to clean digital house and have a tighter ship.

Interestingly, the supposid links  to Time Warp and SCOL 's "home page" takes you to the same spot.. A plain text document that looks like perl scripting.
Likely due to gamespy's mucking up Chad's cgi/php/whatever again.  I know TW's site is http://timewarp.sf.net  I don't know about SCOL.  You might be able to find SKOL here:  http://www.carlsberg.com
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 04:41:50 am by Culture20 » Logged
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2006, 11:59:34 pm »

Quote
Eh...  what?  Even without a compiler, there's more modability with TW:  graphics & music (allegro .dat file), ships' stats (.ini), (sub)game settings (.ini).

Hmm isn't allegro just header files of functions and procedures used during compile time? And allegro's data files aren't exactly intuitive from what I can tell..

So let's make some mods to the urquan dreadnought in TW.. Simple enough right?

C:\timewarp\ships\sc1

ok...

shpmmrxf.ini

ok..

cool, I can set all kinds of stats here:


[Ship]
Crew = 20
CrewMax = 20
Batt = 10
BattMax = 10
SpeedMax = 20
AccelRate = 5
TurnRate = 2
RechargeAmount = 2
RechargeRate = 6
WeaponDrain = 1
WeaponRate = 0
SpecialDrain = 10
SpecialRate = 0
HotspotRate = 1
Mass = 11

[Weapon1]
Color = 12
Range = 8
Frames = 50
Damage = 1

[Weapon2]
Range = 50
Velocity = 80
Damage = 1
Armour = 1
TurnRate = 9

[Special]
SpeedMax = 50
AccelRate = 10
TurnRate = 15
RechargeAmount = 1
RechargeRate = 6
WeaponDrain = 1
WeaponRate = 20
HotspotRate = 0

[AI3_Default]
Weapon_Range = 8

Special_Range = 14
Special = No_Proximity
Special2 = Max_Battery
Special3 = Next_State
Special4 = Precedence
Special_Timer = 50

[AI3_Default2]
Weapon_Range = 60

Special_Range = 9
Weapon = Homing
Special = Proximity
Special2 = Max_Battery
Special3 = Reset_State
Special_Timer = 50

[Names]
NumNames = 17
CaptName1 = Qir-nha
CaptName2 = Jhe-qir
CaptName3 = Qua-rhna
CaptName4 = Mn-quah
CaptName5 = Nrna-mha
CaptName6 = Um-hrh
CaptName7 = Hm-nhuh
CaptName8 = Rrma-hrn
CaptName9 = Jra-nr
CaptName10 = Ur-mfrs
CaptName11 = Qua-qir
CaptName12 = Mrm-na
CaptName13 = Jhe-mhr
CaptName14 = Hmr-hun
CaptName15 = Nhuh-na
CaptName16 = Hrnm-hm
CaptName17 = Mnm-hmm


Now we're getting somewhere.. but what about sound and graphics!?!

Must be in the shpmmrxf.dat section:

slh!ïALL.ëðÍpr¿opDATEëðÿ1-28-200ÿ0, 14:13îöñNAMýñSHçIP_úðöñORIýGëðe:\scÿn\ships\ÿtmp\mmrx}fúðA  ”Lÿ[Objectsï]
S: Sprßites j= ÿ64
Weapóoncp
amplú2tExplo¯sionn0] pecialcp¹Ž”= 1·©´Extrac   ÷”öü©³PanelBßitmap7
Ï

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0Rº\ ³ 1Ç™Û8íâ //'/lh.0 þP00_PCXÿBMP   2þB @ dç9 O$O6OHOZOlO~OOÀ¢O´OÆOØOêOüOï{þAªR_(_:_L_^_ p_|Wï{Yêñ|WžQ œWªUœU®_Ì_¸_°YŠ_ òWšUòU(ga*iêY&i ÎY@mœWoBeBgBaBi rašk¬oðW¼ožeŠoœS ÚcÐY&y@i s*pm@} o–[ÄaÐ_boŠsª¼ ¨ˆš_ ƒ…,‡8‰B :NX‡YV‡‚‰°Â ԏæø Ÿ,Ÿ>ŸPŸ bŸtŸŸ˜ŸªŸ¼ŸÎŸàŸ òŸ†Ÿ¯(¯:¯L¯^¯p¯ ¯|¯¦¯¸¯Ê¯Ü¯î¯‚¯0”¯$¿6¿µ ª8¿d¿`v¿
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›­¿Ñã õˆö+=Oas ©»Íßñ„ –'Ÿ9ŸKŸ]ŸoŸŸŸ ¥Ÿ·ŸÉŸÛŸíŸ€Ÿ’Ÿ#¯ 5¯G¯Y¯k¯þŸ¯¡¯³¯
(cut for space)

Nope...

I've searched the entire Time Warp directory and can't seem to find any reference to graphics and sounds... Modding these in TW remains a mystery to me. And even doing so is not the most intuitive of endeavors it seems...

BTW there are many cool user made ships in TW but still, there are many that blow.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2006, 12:17:45 am »

Interestingly, the supposid links  to Time Warp and SCOL 's "home page" takes you to the same spot.. A plain text document that looks like perl scripting.
Likely due to gamespy's mucking up Chad's cgi/php/whatever again.
Perl, actually, but it does seem like GameSpy's web server configuration is broken (or at least not what the TimeWarp and SCOL sites, which are also hosted there, expect). As far as I can tell, the code is supposed to be executed by the web server, but it isn't even trying to execute it.

Either way, the code is supposed to read from this link database.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2006, 12:28:20 am »

Quote
Eh...  what?  Even without a compiler, there's more modability with TW:  graphics & music (allegro .dat file), ships' stats (.ini), (sub)game settings (.ini).

Hmm isn't allegro just header files of functions and procedures used during compile time? And allegro's data files aren't exactly intuitive from what I can tell..
Allegro comes with a datafile manipulation tool called the grabber. I suggest you use that.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2006, 01:26:05 am »

You can also find some info in here:
http://timewarp.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443
and here (partly explaining how the ships/ppi/shpalabo directory works, but also relevant to the data files:
http://openfacts.berlios.de/index-en.phtml?title=Timewarp_ships
and some more complicated stuff about AI settings here:
http://openfacts.berlios.de/index-en.phtml?title=Timewarp_AI
« Last Edit: June 10, 2006, 01:28:19 am by GeomanNL » Logged
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2006, 05:09:02 am »

Allegro comes with a datafile manipulation tool called the grabber. I suggest you use that.
I prefer the command line program "dat" as it allows for shell scripting and because grabber crashes on me quite often for some reason.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2006, 05:36:40 am »

Allegro comes with a datafile manipulation tool called the grabber. I suggest you use that.
I prefer the command line program "dat" as it allows for shell scripting and because grabber crashes on me quite often for some reason.

Or the TW project's next release could have a super, easy way to mod all graphics sounds and stats by simply replacing .wav, and .bmp files?

Seriously, thanx for the links guys. Leaning to use the grabber might be a good investment because I've noticed at least a few C++ game programmers use allegro. Allegro .dat files provide for a smaller DL and install rather than including a bunch of uncompressed extra graphics and sound files.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2006, 09:22:33 am »

Tw-light is pretty easy to mod graphically. I forget about the audio.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2006, 10:05:14 am »

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Or the TW project's next release could have a super, easy way to mod all graphics sounds and stats by simply replacing .wav, and .bmp files?

This is possible for a few ships (see e.g. the ships/ppi/alabo directory), but only a few because it would be too much (tedious) work to extract all data files and rearrange the content. So, almost all ships still use the .dat files. Anyway, in principle TW(old) supports both formats: data file, and separate files, but in practice most use the data files.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2006, 12:52:05 am »

Quote
Or the TW project's next release could have a super, easy way to mod all graphics sounds and stats by simply replacing .wav, and .bmp files?

This is possible for a few ships (see e.g. the ships/ppi/alabo directory), but only a few because it would be too much (tedious) work to extract all data files and rearrange the content. So, almost all ships still use the .dat files. Anyway, in principle TW(old) supports both formats: data file, and separate files, but in practice most use the data files.

Well, I've got a script that will extract all of the files from a .dat file, but rearranging content would be tedious.  Also, you have to consider that ship load-times would be slowed.  Currently, there's one file-access to read in all the data 1 ship needs instead of the possible 64(ship)+6(captain)+1(ship panel)+1(ditty, mod)+1(primary sound, wav)*X(num sounds)+1(special sound,wav)*X(num sounds)+[64](possible primary)+[64](possible secondary)+X(whatever else) file reads for 1 ship.
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2006, 01:35:33 am »

In terms of mod-ability, we've made a pile of designs for revamping the way scripting is done using Python.  The idea is to use the C++ code as the engine, and use a higher-level view to access methods and variables via script.  More generally, it means pulling the game logic out of the game engine, and instead making it available via scripting.  This would allow for much more content easier, but also some things are really too difficult to pull off in the current code.  Sure, you can change a ship's graphics, sounds, etc, but not its behaviour.  At least, not at run-time, dynamically, in response to in-game events. 

Say you want to have a ship that sits idle until some condition is met, then an AI takes it over.  Currently, that means writing C++ code, which most creative writer-types wouldn't really like.  Or to make "maps" currently requires making a new gametype.  That doesn't make much sense.  So one idea is take all the same calls that would normally be called inside the gametype's C++ code and expose them to Python.  Then you define your gametype in Python and let it create all the planets, stars, player starting postitions, "walls," nebulae, whatever.  Thus a Python class becomes the "map" file format. 

Anyhow, lots of ideas kicking around, but so far I haven't had time to actually implement a lot of it.  Presently I'm reading through the book "Head First Design Patterns," which should help figure out a more elegant design than what's in the TW forums thus far.  Then design, then review, then implement, then start subclassing to do whatever we like: make maps, make gametypes, make "items" like precursor upgrades that can be picked up, defences, all kinds of stuff.  Sigh.  Very indirect, but probably necessary for future growth. 

Sigh.  Plus making Python bindings for the GUI library we're thinking of using (GuiChan).  Plus redoing the interface.  Plus taking steps to reduce spam in the TW forums.  Plus committing patches from users.  Plus expanding this google maps thing.  Plus real life. Smiley
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2006, 04:39:34 am »

I was thinking about giving real life the finger and delving back into TW again.  Now I'm going to have to learn python?   Tongue
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Re: Star Control : TimeWarp
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2006, 09:01:40 pm »

Just adding a couple of plain text descriptions about how ships work, is also helpful.. it's still lacking in that respect.

edit:
PS. I thought that people would be upset about the removal of many of the SC3 models, and so many of the custom Timewarp ships (about 40% was scrapped). The download size went down from 80MB to 50MB. I was afraid it was a bit rigorous and irresponsible to make such a big change out of the blue, but I have seen no complaints about it !! Amazing. Perhaps people are cheering or weeping in blessed anonimity ?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2006, 03:51:52 pm by GeomanNL » Logged
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