The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
February 07, 2025, 11:05:39 pm
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print
Author Topic: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)  (Read 8488 times)
Culture20
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 917


Thraddash Flower Child


View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2006, 12:53:30 pm »

SystemShock2, SC2, and Dune II were not around the same time as the originals...  there were enough years to seperate them.  How about another example though:  Day of the Tentacle (the sequel to Maniac Mansion).  Even though it was more point & click, it was better than the original.
Logged
Novus
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1938


Fot or not?


View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2006, 10:56:37 pm »

SystemShock2, SC2, and Dune II were not around the same time as the originals...  there were enough years to seperate them.  How about another example though:  Day of the Tentacle (the sequel to Maniac Mansion).  Even though it was more point & click, it was better than the original.
Day of the Tentacle is a good example; it retains the spirit of the original but updates the technology and story-telling techniques. Dune II, however, is not really a sequel to Dune; comparing them is meaningless.

Herzog Zwei was released shortly after Herzog but seems to have changed the game in some important ways. Paradroid 90 is essentially Paradroid with updated graphics.

Warcraft 3 could be considered to be a major update to Warcraft 2, as it added 3D graphics, (a few) role-playing elements and much more variation in units.

Staffy Star does have a point, though; even if we include Star Control 3 in the Star Control series, UQM2 would follow after a void of at least ten years. None of the above sequels were separated from the games they sequelled by such a long time (Warcraft 3 was 7 years later, Day of the Tentacle was 6 years later, System Shock 2 was 5 years later).

Anyway, what does all this mean for UQM2? Although few younger gamers are familiar with SC2, the chances that they have played or heard of UQM recently are quite high. Although no new Star Control game has been released in 10 years, UQM seems to have rekindled interest in Star Control, making now a quite good time to start making UQM2.
Logged

RTFM = Read the fine manual.
RTTFAQ = Read the Ur-Quan Masters Technical FAQ.
Staffy Star
Guest


Email
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2006, 01:13:38 am »

Many younger gamers have problably heard about UQM from a european magazine called retrogamer. The paper had UQM on its cover dvd a year ago.

Thats how I heard about UQM. I was born in1981, but didnt play the game until one year ago.
Logged
Arne
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 520


Yak!


View Profile WWW
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2006, 02:02:05 am »

Quote
Dune II, however, is not really a sequel to Dune; comparing them is meaningless.
No, Dune II is a sequel to Dune, comparing them is meaningful. They are both strategy games, and just because the sequel was the inspiration of an entire new genre (Stonkers and Herzog are less known) doesn't mean it's not a sequel.

Herzog Zwei is also a sequel. As with Dune, the two games are set in the same universe, has similar graphic design and are both strategy games. The Zwei at the end means that the developer wanted it to be a sequel.

In the case of Paradroid I could agree with you, the game is more of an Amiga version of C64 Paradroid, although they changed gameplay quite a bit with the bullet physics, turreted weapons and sensors. Many sequels however are essentially just updated versions of the originals with better graphics and physics. In other cases the gameplay change radically, like with Dune II, Herzog Zwei or Utopia K240. If those aren't sequels then Star Control 2 isn't either, having dumped the entire turn based 3D starmap strategy thing for a story, just like other games dumped story for strategy.

Quote
Lets face it. When the "real" star control 3 comes out, we will all be disappointed. It's like starwars episode one, blues brothers 2000 and doom 3. Releases several years after the original thing never realy works.
Metroid Prime. Supreme commander (well, it's looking good so far). LaserSquad:Nemesis (although, it's a bit unknown maybe).

I wonder when Elite 4 is out.
Logged
TiLT
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 260


To boldly go where no Spathi has dared go before


View Profile WWW
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2006, 03:24:48 am »

Dune 2 is definitely not a sequel to Dune 1. It was developed by a completely different developer, with a different publisher, on a different continent, with a different genre and overall style. "Dune 2" is named as such because "Dune" was taken.

Today that situation would have been handled differently, and they would probably have called Dune 2 something like "Battle For Dune" (which was the subtitle of Dune 2's spiritual sequel).
Logged
TiLT
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 260


To boldly go where no Spathi has dared go before


View Profile WWW
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2006, 03:50:23 am »

I'd like to add that unlike in movies, sequels to games are almost always an improvement. It's very rare for a publisher to greenlight a sequel to an old game, but it does happen, and the results are usually good.

Examples include:

- Monkey Island 3, which came out many years after #2. Even though the second game in the series had an ending that was almost impossible to make a sequel to, they managed to do so and ended up with a game that is a contender for best Monkey Island game.

- System Shock 2. This game has enough worshippers to form a minor religion.

- Civilization 3 arrived years after Civ 2, and even though it had its problems, it was a solid game. With Civ 4, perfection was achieved.

- Fallout. Although not technically a sequel, it was a spiritial successor to an old game called Wasteland, and was a crowning achievement among CRPGs in the 90s.

- Red Alert 2. Westwood returned to this series after doing several other games in between, and it turned out to be one of their biggest successes in their later years.

- Day of the Tentacle. The sequel to Maniac Mansion and a massive improvement in every department.

I can also think of a few games that failed to reach the pinnacles of their distant prequels, but that's the nature of games:

- Dark Reign 2.
- Masters of Orion 3.
- Lands of Lore 2.

Logged
Cronos
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


Shofixti Scoutmaster


View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2006, 10:41:38 am »

- System Shock 2. This game has enough worshippers to form a minor religion.

**cough** Why, uh, whatever do you mean?

The Insect Knows! Destroy Him! I command you!

No! It's Too Soon! We must remain hidden until the time is right!

You are an insect!

I know I know!

Errr...

**cough**

**runs**
Logged
1ceph
Zebranky food
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 30



View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2006, 11:18:09 am »

Back to the original subject of the thread...
In fact, I had another idea about a multiplayer SC2-based game.
Imagine a super melee screen, but a really huge one.
If it is a deathmatch, everyone start as drones, scouts, stingers (may be selectable) or some other junky ship and appear in random locations. Violent action ensues Smiley

Killing a ship earns points and frags. Frags are simply score, points can be distributed to select a better ship after death. Destroying better ships will earn more points. And so on and so on...

If it is a team game, players split in teams (say 8x8) and get a role like in the Team Fortress. Now this will be impressive fights. In such a game most ships will get an absolutely new use and new value. Long-range cruisers will become a serious threat if protected by Terminators and have a Scout flying around the formation for checking the surroundings for enemies... But after all, Scout will not notice this cloaked Avenger, who will burn the Cruisers when the formation is being distracted by this irritating suicidal Drone... )

But, after all, that's just a random idea. )
Logged

)))8o~ (Presumably 1st Ur-Quan Smiley)
TiLT
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 260


To boldly go where no Spathi has dared go before


View Profile WWW
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2006, 12:35:22 pm »

What you just described is pretty much the game Subspace, IIRC.
Logged
MasterNinja
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 80



View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2006, 12:59:29 pm »

There may be lot of fans of those games, but I prefaere C&C1 and Red Alert before Tiberian Sun and Red Alert II.  It was like everything made out of candy and all these colored lights which made it hard to see anything. And things were stolen from StarCraft, very obviously was the NOD Siege... *cough*...  Artillery in Tiberian Sun and the Aircraft Carrier in Red Alert II

I did not play System Shock 2 but it released so many years after the awesome first part... It really can't be as good as System Shock 1 I think.  ("Nooo! This is my elevator! *g*")
« Last Edit: April 23, 2006, 01:02:17 pm by MasterNinja » Logged
TiLT
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 260


To boldly go where no Spathi has dared go before


View Profile WWW
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2006, 01:10:46 pm »

You're right. It's not as good as System Shock 1. It's better. Smiley
Logged
Cronos
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


Shofixti Scoutmaster


View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2006, 02:03:58 pm »

System Shock 2 is a better game. The music is not as good as that of SS1, thats about all I can really fault about it.

Seriously, SS2 is the SC2 of the SS universe. Get it. Play it. Make Love to it Love it!
Logged
Deus Siddis
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1387



View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2006, 02:30:56 pm »

Why is everyone talking about System Shock? I never played it, what makes it such a classic?
Logged
Culture20
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 917


Thraddash Flower Child


View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2006, 03:16:42 pm »

Why is everyone talking about System Shock? I never played it, what makes it such a classic?
The Original SS came out when everyone was playing Doom2, and offered so many changes to the FPS genre that it was almost like a TFB game.  Doom2 had psuedo-3D maps.  SS1 had _real_ 3D maps (you could walk under passages).  It also had an incredible plot, puzzles, abundant sub-games (how many levels did you get in Overland before you remembered you were supposed to be blowing up the radio-transmitters?), and fun elevator music (which would sometimes morf into an evil-sounding key). 
SS2 is seen as a great game by most, and does have a great plot, but as a follower of Thief, I just kept expecting the Annelid guys with the pipes to say something about the "Builder".
Logged
Cronos
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 170


Shofixti Scoutmaster


View Profile
Re: A guy can Dream can't he (SC Sequel)
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2006, 07:46:25 pm »

**leans back in chair, and whistles**

Where should I start?

Well, okay, System Shock 1 I guess.

System Shock 1 came out in 1994. The only other truly notable release that wasnt a sequel for that year was Warcraft.

System shock was amongst the very few FPS games to have a true 3d environment. You could look up or down and levels often went in all three dimensions as well. This was before the 3d graphics revolution had rightly begun.

In addition, System Shock 1 was one of the first FPS/RPG games to actually HAVE a storyline. Prior to this it had been "Wolf 3d KILL THE NAZIES AND FIND THE KEYS!" and "DOOM 1 & 2 KILL THE DEMONS AND ROCK OUT!". **cough**

System Shock 1 put you in the shoes of a hacker. You were busted hacking into a giga-corporations computer network and your most likely screwed. You are however, offered an ultimatum. Do a favour for Edward Diego, a corrupt executive, and he'd let you off. Even let you have an R-Grade cybernetic implant that would let you have access to any and every system.

You of course accept, since it's what you wanted in the first place and it's better then jail. Diego gets you to hack into the Shodan AI (Shodan = Sentient Hyper Optimized Data Access Network Tongue) and remove a few ethical constrains. Nothing Major...

You wake up 6 months later and everyones dead, dying, or worse. You suddenly get an email, saying the higher ups know exactly what that favour was and that you MIGHT get off if you can stop Shodan from  burninating Earths cities with Citadel stations Mining laser.

Is this so different? You ask? But of course!

In almost every game before or since, the main enemy has always skulked behind the scenes, sending underlings to destroy you before arrogantly attacking you and being destroyed.

In SS though... The main badguy is EVERYWHERE. Shodan IS Citadel Station. She watches you through security cameras, Taunts with her emails, threatens to destroy you at every turn, belittles you when you succeed and congratulates you when you aid her.

Even more innovative was the use of Cyberspace. This was in essence a game within a game. You could jack into cyberspace and open locked doors within this game within, gain new programming upgrades, find little tidbits of useful (and oftentimes necessary) information. Indeed, Cyberspace was the ONLY way to defeat Shodan.

Weapons were also unique and innovative for the time. Several weapons had 2 or 3 different kinds of ammo, certain weapons were useless (stun guns, for instance), and energy weapons had a power slide bar that allowed you to make incredibly powerful or incredibly weak shots. The drawback was that, using too much energy would deplete your reserves (which were finite, but could be recharged fairly easily) and overheat the weapon itself (which could make it explode).

It was one of the first games where you actively had to search corpses, draws, cyberspace etc for crucial pieces of information. You actually had to READ and LISTEN to emails and personal logs to get through certain locked doors or get vital equipment.

The music was also unparallelled for it's time. No game before, I'm fairly sure, had an enhanced version that allowed for higher resolution and a CD full of music that you not only listened to but ENJOYED.

I honestly could go on forever. It was simply astounding and well deserving of a place in history as one of the greatest games of all time (up there with SC2, of course Smiley).

SS2 built upon it's predecessor. It took things in a different direction but stayed true to the original. Things were streamlined, and the continuing story of the SS universe brought a decided twist to things.

As a final note, the creator of the SS music track has a website where you can download his works legally. He is better known for his work on Hell March I believe. http://www.chicajo.com/frindex.php
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!