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Author Topic: World of Starcraft  (Read 5436 times)
Cronos
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Re: World of Starcraft
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2006, 10:21:39 am »

I disagree on the point of walkers. Although the sasquatch from BZ1 was equal in terms of looks to the Atilla (IE, crap), the soviet Golems were awe inspiring and frightening when you first encountered them.

My biggest psychological kick in the pants, so to speak, from BZ 2 was the introduction of tracked vehicles. It didnt fit in at all with the original design paradigms behind the units from BZ 1, which was maximum manouverability. Sure, utility vehicles dont NEED manouverability but terrain navigation was made much simpler. Also, a small puddle of water would have the unfortunate effect of destroying your last mobile scavenger...

It just seemed to be a de-evolution in my eyes, one that rubbed me the wrong way =\

Your final point kinda reminds me of System Shock 2 a little. A great game that was forced to put in a half assed and cheesy ending. I wont give it away but it really felt like a kick in the teeth.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: World of Starcraft
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2006, 01:55:53 pm »

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the soviet Golems were awe inspiring and frightening when you first encountered them.

Were Golems the ones with bell-bottoms or am I thinking of a different game?


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My biggest psychological kick in the pants, so to speak, from BZ 2 was the introduction of tracked vehicles. It didnt fit in at all with the original design paradigms behind the units from BZ 1, which was maximum manouverability.

Not so, only early on in BZ1 was the "mobility is king" mind set how things worked. With the appearance of walkers midway through BZ1, ground vehicles (whether they have legs or treads) became part of the universe's extra-terrestrial combat. Treads have a number of advantages over Legs and vice versa.


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Also, a small puddle of water would have the unfortunate effect of destroying your last mobile scavenger...

Treaded vehicles should have been allowed to move underwater, as walkers can. That was a pointless design issue.


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It just seemed to be a de-evolution in my eyes, one that rubbed me the wrong way =\

I played BZ2 first, then BZ1, so I suppose I see the weaknesses in the first game more.
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Re: World of Starcraft
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2006, 02:42:24 pm »

Fraid I cant find a picture of the soviet Golem, it first appears in the venusian mission where you're allies get trashed by just one of them (second mission in if I recall).

The walkers I could always accept as part of Battlezone. They made sense. It was the tracked vehicles in the second one that ticked me off. The only advantage that I could see a tracked vehicle having over a hover vehicle is that it might be able to traverse steeper terrain, a difficulty easily overcome by jump thrusters.

There were also some missions that failed to live up to expectations going from BZ1 -> 2. For instance, the solo mission on Mire where you have to get back to your base. Although nicely done, it just didnt do justice to the mission it was trying to emulate from BZ1, the mission on Europa where you have to snipe a soviet pilot, complete his patrol run (posing as a soviet) and the absolutely crapping yourself when you were found out and had to escape with dozens of soviets on your tail.

Another thing that comes to mind as a dissapointment was the sattelite view. In BZ 1, it was a simplified terrain grid, accessible from anywhere (provided you had a comsat station, which for the NSDF was one of the coolest structures) from which you could issue orders and so forth without having to be on location.

In BZ 2, you had comsat bunkers, which while nice, made the sattelite view unpalatable and less practical.

I can see where you're coming from though. Going backwards you do see certain annoying flaws of the original in a somewhat harsher light. Going forwards from the original to the sequel, all I can see is all that anticipation and expectation having been shattered. When I completed both endings to BZ2, all I felt was a tremendous dissapointment. When I finished BZ1, I felt a tremendous thrill, sobered and sharpened by the ending.

And thats another thing (insert collective groan Tongue). Cooke from BZ2 had flat and uninspired dialogue for each mission load, every single time. "Grizzly 1" from BZ1 sounded like he'd been through hell and back, like he'd been in a war.

On it's own BZ2 might have stood up fine. But from the perspective and expectations of having played the original, it felt dissapointing. I guess I'm bitter about it =\
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Deus Siddis
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Re: World of Starcraft
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2006, 01:14:49 am »

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Fraid I cant find a picture of the soviet Golem

http://www.planetbattlezone.com/battlezone/units.shtml

Yea, the legs look a little funky. Sort of like the rhino-whatever in BZ2, on Bane. Too narrow at the top and too wide at the bottom. I prefer the Atilla.


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The walkers I could always accept as part of Battlezone. They made sense. It was the tracked vehicles in the second one that ticked me off. The only advantage that I could see a tracked vehicle having over a hover vehicle is that it might be able to traverse steeper terrain, a difficulty easily overcome by jump thrusters.

You could make the same arguement against the tall, bipedal walkers. The treaded vehicles are heavy weaponry, like the walkers. They trade mobility for armor and firepower.


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Although nicely done, it just didnt do justice to the mission it was trying to emulate from BZ1, the mission on Europa where you have to snipe a soviet pilot, complete his patrol run (posing as a soviet) and the absolutely crapping yourself when you were found out and had to escape with dozens of soviets on your tail.

I found the biggest difficulty was finding the damn waypoints in those europan trenches. The onslaught of guards was secondary. It felt more like a field recon than a spy mission.


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Another thing that comes to mind as a dissapointment was the sattelite view. In BZ 1, it was a simplified terrain grid, accessible from anywhere (provided you had a comsat station, which for the NSDF was one of the coolest structures) from which you could issue orders and so forth without having to be on location.
In BZ 2, you had comsat bunkers, which while nice, made the sattelite view unpalatable and less practical.

I think it was a strike against BZ2 that you had to get inside a bunker to enter satellite view, but I don't think wireframe is such a step up. C&C wouldn't be very fun from wireframe.


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On it's own BZ2 might have stood up fine. But from the perspective and expectations of having played the original, it felt dissapointing. I guess I'm bitter about it =\

I do think it would have done better under a different title, within a different universe. I like to think of them this way- as separate games. It isn't hard, given their plots don't mesh real well.
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Re: World of Starcraft
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 06:31:38 pm »

For some reason I never liked satellite view in either game... you should have been able to use it as a command interface like starcraft, but I found it only really worked as a different view and it was actually harder to control your units sometimes.

Yes, both battlezone games have their weaknesses, but they are both fun and rather original. I don't think I'll participate in the debate any more than saying that.  Smiley

Oh yeah, and golems scare the shit out of you in BZ1.
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