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Author Topic: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.  (Read 14241 times)
Vux_Brush
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2006, 04:36:18 pm »

well, you can do fixed camera 3d, like in Rise of nations, having the 3d advantages and look.

If you ask me, I personally would love it be 320x200 again. But sure Activision wont think so Smiley

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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2006, 09:21:37 am »

"Should the game be 2d or 3d? If 3d, should it be 1st or 3rd person?"

I wouldn't mind seeing a combination of the two if possible. I have an image in my head of a game featuring lush 2D maps for star systems, hyperspace travel, and planetside resource gathering, with combat becoming fully 3D and playing roughly similar to how Star Trek: Legacy is looking like based on E3 gameplay footage. A little of that can be found buried around the middle of this interview here.

"How should they handle resource gathering, both interface-wise and the in game logistics?"

For the most part, I'd say the existing structure from Star Control 2 ain't broke, so why fix it? However, it could certainly be expanded in a few interesting ways. Asteroid mining could provide a fun alternative to running around planets, if balanced correctly. Some kind of general information database containing entries on the materials you're collecting - among other things - would add a little depth for strange people like me who enjoy reading such minutiae (I remember spending at least an hour and a half reading through the Freespace 2 database before even starting the first mission. Don't even get me started on Star Ocean 3.)

"And if it were released only to console, would you purchase that console?"

Most likely yes. However, unlike most people, I consider a console with even one truly great game to be worth its cost. The Sega Saturn had Dragon Force. The Xbox had Knights of the Old Republic. So on, so forth. I can easily imagine a new Star Control game developed by the right people being one of those games.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2006, 09:25:52 am by Delsaber » Logged

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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2006, 05:00:50 pm »

Count me among those who think the 2D version of the game was just fine.  I think that in terms of learning curve, play stile it should be similiar to SC2. 

Have a larger universe, many of the old races, plus several new ones.   For example you would start the game in Sol but there would be much more area to work with, lots of new adventures, both necessary, and unnecessary to complete the game.  I'm thinking of areas west of where the Chmmr, Ilwarth, Arilou were in the game, as well as south of where the Pkunk, Yehat, and Shofixti (their destroyed homeworld) and east of the Druuge/Burvixese/Utwig.

Adventures where you would free races that the Kzer'Za enslaved, where you'd find the worlds of races destroyed by the Kohr-Ah, like the Gg, races that somehow avoided being found by the Ur-Quan (after all the Melnorme, or should I say the Mael-Num did it why not others).  And of course some major problem that has to be solved requireing you to fly to very remote parts of the galaxy in search of clues.

Have your Precursor ships look something like the Mark II that's shown in the dialogue when you finish SC2 successfully.   Make you have to work to improve it like in SC2 (I hated the Colony ship in SC 3 it was way too weak)  just find a different way to obtain the improvements to the Precursor ship.  Fully upgraded the Precursor ship should superior to any enemy ship, but there should still be need of escort ships, not sure how to best balance it though.

The ship upgrades in SC 3 was one of the few good points about that game IMO.

In Super Melee mode allow for larger teams and allow for every ship in all the Star Control game to be flown.  The way that each ship had a picture of people (aliens) operating the ships controls, comparable to what the ship was doing in SC2 was a nice touch.  Something similiar in all combat please.

The 2D combat in the first 2 SC games was just fine the way it was, though I agree with previous posters who said we need to know where the planet is, perhaps there could be an arrow on the edge of the screen pointing at the planet if it's off screen, simply position it in such a way as to not intefere with the view of combat.  Make sure that the planet's gravity isn't too strong (I hated that in SC3 to get ships caught in the gravity and unable to leave).
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Senethro
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2006, 07:03:31 am »

Just diving in because I've playing UQM for the first time over the past two days and heard an interesting rumour.

I heard there was a bootleg dump of an early alpha of Star Control 4 doing the rounds amongst the very exclusive guys who deal in that kind of stuff. Anyone heard this? If my background reading was correct then it was something more similar to SC2 than the final product (StarCon).

If this is the sort of thing you want to waste your time chasing then two possible points of contact

1. Escapist magazine. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/
One of the back issues deals with this

2. If any of you are goons then Red Eye in the Games forum knows a lot about these things and has an interesting website with a bunch of assorted rarities (lostlevels.org).
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2006, 08:43:04 am »

I think Chad of PONAF has one of the StarCon prototypes. I also remember seeing one for auction on ebay a while ago, but it was quite expensive.

Evidently, the thing is a console bolted shut so you can't get the actual disk out, or something.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2006, 10:35:56 pm »

Do you recall who ownes the rights to this semi-developed game? Could it be made legally downloadable or would that lead to trouble, I wonder. . .
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2006, 06:31:36 pm »

Quote
Should the game be 2d or 3d? If 3d, should it be 1st or 3rd person?

This doesn't really matter to me, I'm sure people could re-adjust to whatever interface is offered, and the gaming scene, graphics and processing power have changed so much since the original SC2.

Quote
How should they handle resource gathering, both interface-wise and the in game logistics?

In SC2, the resource gathering was incredibly well-balanced with the pace of the plot and exploration aspects, and I'd like to see that continue. Certain stars, races and resources were put within near reach, and the way the starmap was laid out subconsciously encouraged you to explore in certain directions. You found things out gradually, then flew greater and greater distances, and found out more. Hard to do, but perfect when done right. If possible I'd like to see that done again.

Quote
And if it were released only to console, would you purchase that console?

Probably not; I'm not a console gamer.

One of the previous posters said "I dont like to play games.. I like to experience them."  I'm of a similar mind. I want to feel immersed in the universe, so the plot and dialogue is incredibly important to me. Also the fact in SC2 that your actions have consequences - you're Making Stuff Happen. Having a rich story and universe is the way to go.

Another important feature, which I desperately would like to see but I doubt would be implemented, is the auto-fight mode. Save the game before the battle and let the computer fight it out.  This made the game incredibly accessible to us adventure gamers who suck at battle/action games.

Here's a question though. If this is going to be a sequel, there's going to have to be a synopsis of SC2.  What's the best way of summarizing what happened?  The Earthlings made a lot of different things happen in their interactions with each alien race. Plus some game threads were optional... was it necessary to send the Ilwrath after the Thraddash? Which optional plot points would we want to survive in the sequel?
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2006, 09:28:01 pm »

Plus some game threads were optional... was it necessary to send the Ilwrath after the Thraddash?

Yes, because you couldn't get at Procyon if you didn't :-p
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2006, 09:52:05 pm »

I was unable to experience SC2 prior to....3 or 4 days ago, via UQM. I am really enjoying it to this point, and it is clearly evident to me that a sequel/update is what is needed. As I have no "nostalga factor" working for me, I may provide a somewhat different perspective than many of you, but whatever, that's what forums are for, right?

As for 3d, I definately think that it could work, and work well, if done correctly. How I imagine that this would work is a similar camera job to Crimson Skies for Xbox - Behind the ship piloting, forgiving controls, easy manouvoring, and so forth -- not a flying simulator, but an engine that allows for fun "dogfight" style combat. What could make the combat especially interesting is, if the engine is advanced, different effects of lighting (WWII style attacking out of the light of stars) and atmospheric effects of planets or moons (perhaps skimming along atmospheres, while not appropriate in the realm of physics, can make it harder for you to be seen?)  through on screen radar style screens, I think it shouldn't be too hard to figure out where enemies are. There need not be a 3d starmap, maybe a "nav computer" or some business will handle that for you, and you just need to get far enough out of a solar system (sort of like how Escape Velocity handled star systems).

Harvesting - I don't see anything wrong with the style that is done in SC2, so it can stay the way it is...or maybe be automated in some way -- you orbit a planet, bringing up a menu for scans and all of that, and send down your lander. perhaps, if that process is automated, you leave the lander and go explore for some time. You receive a warning a few game days later stating that the mining expedition is complete, and you go to pick up the crew. Perhaps some will die if you just send down "miners" with no protection from life forms, and perhaps scientists may find something other than minerals, so on and so forth.

Consoles? Why not? If it doesn't detract from the overall focus of the game, I don't see a problem with it. However, I would suggest that Activision decide, for instance, to make a PC game, and THEN do what is necessary for it to get onto a console ( I imagine that the 360 would be the best for ports like this). Too many times developers try to make a game for all systems, and they end up too thinned out to be good on any platform.

so, let the newbie have it. I don't have the history and deep-rooted love for the game that you all do, but perhaps my perspective can show what newcommers to the series may approach the idea of remaking a classic (or making a sequel)  that they have not been exposed to.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2006, 09:54:23 pm »

I hope they allow addons for ships, worlds, music, characters, etc.  It would be cool if there was a website for downloading lots of custom ships for the new Star Control game.

Kind of like the skins for the Quake series.

Also, it would be nice if the game had a pause button too for taking more time to decide a strategy.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2006, 05:13:45 am »

My 2cents:

Me thinks if the game is going to be developed under activision then it will be a big title, meanin 3D and big budget etc, though I may be wrong, who knows how those bigwigs think.

The question then is not 3D vs. 2D, but how to make 3D work best for maximum storyline and gameplay etc. (and general lovability). It has to appeal to both old-skool sc1/sc2 players, and a new audience. Therefore a proper sc4 has to have great graphics etc, but not as to overwhelm the storyline and gameplay.

Of course I think the over-head view should be kept, no first person, as this is the starcon tradition. Thankfully Toys For Bob have to worry about his crap, and not me.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2006, 05:30:00 am »

Hello.  I know this thread appears to have died, but I have my own thoughts about what I'd like to see in a new Star Control game...

First, as has been suggested, I'd render the whole thing in 3D but have the game play entirely on a 2D plane, as in SC2.  With all the graphical effects possible these days, the melee combat could look spectacular even in 2D (which is really what it would have to be to be called Star Control, IMHO).  Basically, rather than focus on making everything fully 3D, I'd focus on rendering the best looking 2D picture possible.

Second, I'd leave resource gathering and planet stuff essentially the same, but the larger screens people play on today allow larger fields for the planet lander, scans, etc.  I'd rework the whole planet interface, actually, to bring it up to todays standards.  And I'd have each planet be a sphere rather than a flat map that wraps on the sides.  I'd be tempted to suggest playing the planet-lander in 1st-person or 3rd over-the-shoulder 3D, but then I think that would not fit in with the 2D combat.  And I'd way rather sacrifice 3D resource gathering than SC style melee.

Third, I'd make the planets and moons actually move in their orbits.  They'd move incredibly slowly, obviously, at whatever rate is appropriate given the speed of the game clock.  It wouldn't really add much to the game in terms of gameplay, but I think it would be cool.

Fourth, I'd suggest devoting 3/4 of the space on the disc to voiceover.  Really, the other game resources would not amount to much if it's 3D-rendered 2D (I would think).  And then spend a lot of time and care making the alien interactions fun.  So lots of dialogue (though not long, droning dialogue like some games), and lots of character movement and expression on the screen.  And get quality voice talent, with someone involved in the game's creative process to direct them.  I don't know about you guys, but I definitely play UQM with voice OFF...

Fifth, I'd ignore SC3 continuity entirely.  In fact, I wouldn't call the game SC4 just to dodge this entirely.  I'd call it Star Control: *Happy Campers* or something (not that, obviously).  I'd be foolish, however, to ignore the positive things that SC3 did contribut though.  One of the above posters mentioned ship upgrades for every ship -- I liked this idea too.  Another thing that I sort of appreciate when I play SC2 (or UQM, now) is the ability to autonav to each planet or moon in a system.  And then there's the issue of the colonies.  I like the idea of colonizing worlds (SC2 seemed off with almost no colonies, even if it made sense with the storyline), but SC3's system was basically pointless.  I'm not sure how I'd improve it, though I think I'd want to include it in some fashion.

The main thing to remember when approaching a new Star Control game is what makes SC2 the greatest game ever.  It's not cutting-edge technology at work.  It's the game's incredibly rich, rewarding gameplay with a very elegant design and interface; it's the simple and perfectly balanced ship-to-ship combat; it's the whisical and humourous story, characters, and universe.  Basically, keep it simple (to use, if not to beat!) and keep it fun and funny, and it will be a winner.  An elegantly rendered 2D design would be the best fit for all of this, I think, and it would be a winner with the sort of people who are into this sort of thing.  You know, smart people.  Smiley

Oh, one last thing.  I know it sounds a little like heresy, but I think it would be a great fit on today's consoles.  Those dual analog sticks and shoulder buttons/triggers might open up some fun possibilities with the melee, without changing the core of what made it great, plus there is no obvious advantage to playing on a PC (unlike with, for example, hardcore RPG's or FPS's).

Anyway, sorry about the length.  I just really want to see a great SC4 someday... Smiley
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2006, 10:34:27 pm »

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet...

How about abandoning the 1 on 1 limitation?  I personally would LOVE to see how some of these ships might fight in combinations or swarms.

Would require a REALLY good tactical AI... and good macromanagement tools.  Also, I'd like to see this as an addition rather than a substitution... so that the 1-on-1 fans will still be happy.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2006, 05:50:13 pm »

doesnt timewarp allow for this?
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2006, 01:45:52 am »

Right now I could just as easily go for a UQM port to Xbox Live Arcade with multiplayer Super Melee over live. I know for a fact my father and I would go without food for a week to afford an Xbox 360 just for that.

People aren't as hostile to retro gaming as you guys think. Street Fighter 2 is the fastest selling Xbox Live Arcade Game ever, so a 2d game is not anathema to them.
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