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Author Topic: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.  (Read 12906 times)
RTyp06
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2006, 05:12:51 am »

Quote
How about abandoning the 1 on 1 limitation?

Or how about simply doing it differently?

I see a Star Control/ Mortal Kombat  motiff.. A melee engine where your ships don't rotate, but stay facing eachother across the screen. Each ship still has different speeds, unique weapons etc. but you simply battle by straffing back and forth and trying to hit your target. Some ships could simply shoot straight but the possibilities are open to anything we've seen in our favorite shooter/scroller and beyond.

Virtually all known aspects of the classic Star Control melee could be ported to this format. Short range weapons like the Stinger tounge attack , the Umgah cone, Illwrath flame thrower or the Thraddash afterburner might have to be changed or tweaked consideribly, but most other things would easily port. The suppox blade would be made for this format!

To me, SC melee really doesn't involve much skill or strategy. The gravity whip is interesting, but battles are  pretty much determined at the outset IMO.
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Mugz the Sane
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2006, 08:34:43 am »

I shudder. This is truly *beautiful* in its... *simplicity.* Really. While the idea actually could be a lot of fun, not with SC. Seriously, not with SC. The classic SC melee is, I'll grant, limited in many ways (imagine Descent-like control over the ship instead) but that adds to its charm. Furthermore, its simplicity makes for an easy-to-learn, fun game.

The only aspect of melee I'd change would be to add a fleet battle mode, and that would only be used for major engagements or something - most encounters in SC*3* would still be 1-on-1. (this is one damn good sandwich!)

Although the outcome of SOME battles is already decided at the outset (chmmr/arilou, and I'm sure you can all think of a few others) THIS IS NOT A GIVEN! It has been proven - several times by numerous different people - that no ship is truly invulnerable compared to a specific opponent. I have seen a cruiser kill a blazer before, although it was kind of a write-off afterward...

Melee DOES have its skill/strategy aspect. Gravity whips, the angle of your nemesis cannon, reliably killing chmmr with a slower, 'weaker' ship, where the marauder's mines are going, when to drop marines, when to use the blade's strafe and when NOT to, that kinda stuff. It isn't PURE rock-paper-scissors, and skilled piloting tends to spell the difference between a crushing defeat and a glorious victory. Or an outright 'HOW-the-hell-did-I-do-THAT?' victory.

Which brings me to my SC*3* suggestion: NOT MMORPG! I don't want OR need to see Star Control gutted and raped by the l33t dipshits. I'm sure everyone else agrees. Actually, my suggestion is: The UQM interface works nicely, all it needs is a visual update. The SCnot3 interface was actually kinda nice. Work something together there. Once we have an interface, we need to establish the melee dynamic. See above. NOT the SCnot3 faux 3D or 2.5D or whatever melee. Then all we need's the backstory, quests etc... That's where TFB comes in.

Think on this - if SC*3* has a different gameplay style to the first two, will you people who have played the original SC2 and SC1 REALLY like it? So - take the best features of both SC1 and 2, update the interface to bring it more-or-less inline with what we have today, change the gameplay itself VERY LITTLE from SC2, with maybe a few of the nicer features of the SCnot3 engine added, get TFB to write a good story for this interface, stomp every single little bug that rears its head into grease... and here's the best bit - make it modular. Make the engine so that a new story/quest/starmap/whatever can be seamlessly integrated without having to rip the source apart to make it fit.

I would offer my own questionable coding skills to this project, but unless you want to code it to drive heavy industrial epuipment off EEPROM or TTL logic I doubt I'll be of much use. Heh - that would be fun.

Uh, that's it.
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RTyp06
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2006, 03:42:41 am »

Here's a cool little flash game with multi-ship combat. It even has a story.

http://www.miniclip.com/games/real-space-2/en/
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2006, 03:50:49 am »

I dunno about you guys, but I would love to see a Star Fox-esque 3rd person Star Control. Sorta like that one SC game that got cancelled (StarCon).

And another thing that would be cool is a (almost) seamless gameplay experience, meaning that  fighting, going through Hyper/Quasi space and exploring would all be done from the same view.

Explaining some of the cliffhangers from SC2 would be nice, too. Like just what happened to the Androsynth and the Taalo, and where the crap the Orz came from.

Also, NO ONLINE MULTIPLAYER. The last thing we need is an MMORPG, there are way too many of those as it is.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2006, 05:45:06 am »

I would like to point out that there's a difference between MMO and MO.  You can have online multiplayer with a limit to how many people are fighting at any given time.  Timewarp does it quite well.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2006, 01:00:57 pm »

Think on this - if SC*3* has a different gameplay style to the first two, will you people who have played the original SC2 and SC1 REALLY like it? So - take the best features of both SC1 and 2, update the interface to bring it more-or-less inline with what we have today, change the gameplay itself VERY LITTLE from SC2, with maybe a few of the nicer features of the SCnot3 engine added, get TFB to write a good story for this interface, stomp every single little bug that rears its head into grease... and here's the best bit - make it modular. Make the engine so that a new story/quest/starmap/whatever can be seamlessly integrated without having to rip the source apart to make it fit.

Uh, that's it.

Well, the idea itself is ok, but I simply have this feel that thats exatcly what SC3 tried to do. Of course, TFB would probably have a much better story and all, but still.........
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2006, 09:45:11 pm »

I don't know how many posters here have ever played Star Control, the first of all sequels. Colornizing is NOT introduced in SC3, and 3D starmap IS in the original SC. I still remember how it was in mono display and PC speaker. It actually sounds better with the PC speaker than FM synthesizer card of the time (Adlib, or something like that).

Back to the topic. I actually am expecting to see it goes back to 3D interface on starmap. 3D control works well with both joypads and keyboard/mouse combination nowadays, and there are more keys on joypad today over 15 years ago. Why confine ourselves with 3 arrow keys (not even four) and two other control keys?

Melee will and should be in 2D, and it should be made so that one can play online melee with other players. AI will always be beaten by men, and men are unlimitedly cunning than anything else. The only question is that: should there be more than 2 players in a melee? The experiment of timewarp shows that it could be a success, or a complete failure. I personally suggest that there could be as much as 8 melee players battling each other with dynamic gravity traps (i.e. planets) orbiting around each other.

The rest problems are more like what type of game the single player mode will be. The first SC is a strategy game. Why can't TFB make a SC sequel as strategy again? MMORPG is another possibility which allows both offline and online play. Who would resist the temptation of being a Melnorme trader wondering over space, trading goods and information, while slowly, but continuously, executing the ultimate agenda of the Melnorme?

Possibility of utilizing 3D RTS as a game mode should not be discarded, too. It allows player to control a fleet consists of several dozens of starships and command them in a coherent (or chaotic but visually spledid) way during battle. For example, most people can't use Umgah drone well and it is widely deemed as a junk in the hands of human control. However, if you have 20 of these in 3D, they can be deployed in such a way that they can use as an array of antimatter cones to block enemy attack and cover other ships, such as players motherships, behind. 3D RTS provides some possibilities, though some people may not like it.
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2006, 07:18:17 am »

first off i hated the demo in SC3 the most of the weapons was near worthless i guss that what happen when you think you can take a good game from a good company and make it better at least in 2 the ship all had a real attack.

in four i wish to see all ship armed and the option of a fleet battle or the old fasion one i want both to be open i like watching fleet battle more the one man heros but at time i like being the one man hero so open both option it would make for a very good game what made battlezone a good game was there option you could drive off and be a one man hero or take along some tank and swarm your foes options are what i like the most about games and i don't mean no fot menu and the shofixti are my faviote race mostly because of they warriors hart and the way they talk.

i would like to see more conquest options in it

oh and the 3D thing on 3 made me queasy  keep it two player man and if done right it could go MMORPG but only if it like Savage and Guild wars buy the game and play it for free i hate MMORPG fee stuff the Savage company is also nice enoth to giv e there game free now
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 07:24:17 am by Wodahs » Logged
Mugz the Sane
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Re: A SC4 Suggestion Thread for those who know MMORPG is not the answer.
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2006, 08:01:55 am »

Yes, SCnot3 maybe did attempt (and fail) my suggestion up there, but why did it fail?

Abysmal plot, nonexistent quality control, a broken engine and a story which, frankly, sucked. In addition, the only SC2 races that were portrayed decently by their dialogue were the Pkunk and the Spathi. And that is only because in the case of the Spathi they transplanted huge chunks of dialogue from SC2.

In addition, the music was insipid to pathetic, the 2.5D melee combat was irritating and the AI was too depressing.

SCnot3 had potential - great potential. It was actually a half-way decent game. But after SC2 it disappointed, and with its broken engine etc etc it was... painful... to play.

Most of these mistakes could have been avoided, people.
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