The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 12, 2019, 07:51:52 pm
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Paul & Fred have reached a settlement with Stardock!

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  Starbase Café (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  Cool Comic Booklets.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 20 Print
Author Topic: Cool Comic Booklets.  (Read 63577 times)
Deus Siddis
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1387



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #195 on: August 13, 2006, 12:28:56 am »

Wow this is a long thread, I'm glad I got out really early (much faster to read than to type.)

BTW, RType06, you said something along the lines of how you didn't believe in a "god" (in quotes because the definition of this word can be vague) having created Terran life, but something else did like another (biologicaly simpler?) lifeform, or did I misunderstand? Can you explain why you think this Intelligient Designer is not too complex to have existed without being created itself, and yet could have created lifeforms like us that are irreducibly complex?


Quote
That is why Deus is so good to have around. He has an uncanny knack for pointing out my flaws to me.

Yes, I knew I was good at something! Grin

I was only joking earlier by the way, people taking what you've said too seriously does not necessarily equal you having some flaw that provoked it. But that's why we have alcohol, to subdue our egos long enough that we can't understand what we're hearing anyway, and thus opinions can be freely expressed within the confines of a bar or meade hall. And because of alcohol, we have a thread devoted to it, to absorb our opinions of it, as well as toilets, to absorb it directly, when you've had more than enough of it.


And so that brings us back to the truth of how life started:

There was a god (who evolved from a race of plasmoid aliens, on the sun of Tyuki) who was alone in the universe, and very bored. . .How was he alone if he evolved from a race of ion balls you ask? Well how did adam and eve find themselves surrounded by cities and peoples right after genesis, if they were the first people themselves, and their kids hadn't even had kids of their own yet? Through a chronological temporal unexplained anomally, of course (I don't see why more religions don't use this loop hole, everything on the scifi channel does.)

So anyway, god was really bored and so he created alcohol, and was entertained for 6 days. But on the seventh day, he realized that drinking is not as fun when you're sitting around in a vacuum, alone. So he created plants, but they coundn't drink, so then he created scandinavians, and they more than made up for the plants. But then came a game that ripped-off starflight, and so all of them flocked to that and its internet fan forums, along with israelis, who had been god's previous chosen people until they complained about his honey-waffer recipe (this was before god created the french, who in turn created irreducibly tasty yet biologically destructive dessert pastries.) To punish the penisulas of scandinavia for forsaking god and his liquid ambosia, he had loki send down his agents to create star control 3, and unnecessarily long philosophical threads, which no one could resist getting sucked into (apparently not even quick witted creations of the great cat god beezer, like the teller of this recounting, yours truly.) But so sober had the people of the heathen forum become, so far from the light of drunkiness and the things you do while bathed in its power (with the exception of those guys on spike tv,) that they almost enjoyed wading knee-deep in posts whose factlessness came hand-in-hand with its endlessness.

So god sent a comet to blow away humanity, and it'll be here in a few days. Cheers!


That's not just me talking though, that is all backed up by lots of PHDs, SBDs, ICBMs, and the bible (which I haven't read in a while, but I think it went something like that.)

And remember folks, god loves those who play hard to get, so become an agnostic, Today!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2006, 12:42:08 am by Deus_Siddis » Logged
Arne
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 520


Yak!


View Profile WWW
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #196 on: August 13, 2006, 03:44:39 pm »

Can you explain why you think this Intelligient Designer is not too complex to have existed without being created itself, and yet could have created lifeforms like us that are irreducibly complex?
Very clever young man, but it's turtles all the way down.

Well how did adam and eve find themselves surrounded by cities and peoples right after genesis, if they were the first people themselves, and their kids hadn't even had kids of their own yet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite
Logged
RTyp06
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #197 on: August 13, 2006, 07:07:29 pm »

Luki:

http://www.allaboutscience.org/darwins-theory-of-evolution-video.htm

http://www.allaboutscience.org/dna-double-helix-video.htm

http://www.illustramedia.com/scripts/UnlockingtheMysteryofLifeScript.pdf


Here are two videos from 2 seperate chapters in  the Unlocking the Mystery of Life video and the third link is a complete transcript. After reviewing these if you are still interested I will PM you and get a PO box number..

Deus: No I cannot answer that. I will say that the designer doesn't have to be a diety and yes ID could indicate that naturalistic science will never be  able to discover the true origins of life. Science has found natural causes for many things but I don't believe they ever will where life's origin is concerned. Just as we may be able to measure and discover how an internal combustion engine works through naturalistic scientific means, we might not ever be able to tell who designed it if we didn't know it was the product of a human mind already.

Further, all machines come from a biological source. The human or animal  brain. Animals use intelligence to build tools, a beaver lodge, a birds nest, a bee hive a spider web etc. To me, it's not that much of a strech to think that some sort of intelligence is behind the DNA molecule, bacterial flagellum, the complex shutter eye, lungs or a heart etc.

(bbl.. busy day)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2006, 07:43:43 pm by RTyp06 » Logged
AnotherW
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 72



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #198 on: August 13, 2006, 07:43:22 pm »

RTyp06:
a simple question: as far as i understood, an irreducably complex machine is one where it cannot function without one of its parts at all, right? but, isn't evolution about replacing a version of something with a better and more efficient version? say, like the eye was THEORIZED (notice the caps... Smiley ) to evolve, i.e. gradually improving over time? or, about how cells were suppose to produce energy by fermentation only before the advent of the mitochondria?
Logged
Arne
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 520


Yak!


View Profile WWW
Argument from mammal astonishment
« Reply #199 on: August 14, 2006, 02:46:23 am »

I watched both videos. They basically make two arguments from astonishment re: bacterial flagellum and how a cell works. It concludes with how cells and stuff must be designed because it's so complex that an animal is easily astonished by it and can't quite grasp it. Okay little CG sequences of cells though. Reminded me of those children stories (edutainment) where people venture into the body and there's all sorts of creatures or machines representing what's going on.

The protein video mentions how natural selection needs 'life' to work on in order to improve/change stuff, and natural selection can't create life because there's nothing there. Not sure what they're getting at here. They make a short statement/claim about how organic molecules won't ever form life. I didn't hear anything about Irreducable complexity or probability estimates though. They also show the modern cell next to the dead primordial soup to enhance the awesomeness of the rift between them. No mention of primordial cells or whatever.

I think abiogenesis was a chemistry thing, it only needs to create something that's self replicating (with a chance of increasing its complexity), then natural selection can join in as there will be competition. The early stuff could've been different from stuff now, only serving as a scaffold or mold that has since been completely discarded (replaced). The crux is of course to figure out the frequency of the plateaus that our Sisyphus of life could rest on, and what routes there where.

Examples of early cells and probability theorizing, along with references to published papers. And some more.


distant watcher> Talk.Origins link again! (re: IC)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2006, 04:21:04 am by Arne » Logged
Culture20
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 917


Thraddash Flower Child


View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #200 on: August 15, 2006, 04:55:57 am »

Well how did adam and eve find themselves surrounded by cities and peoples right after genesis, if they were the first people themselves, and their kids hadn't even had kids of their own yet?
Oh I love the "Where's Cain get his wife?" questions.  They're answered right in Genesis though, as long as you don't do what most scholars do today (and apparently throughout history) and assume that the first two chapters of Genesis are two different creation stories...

Sixth day:
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."

2:5 when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up [on the third day after the land was seperated from the ocean, -Culture20] --for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no man to till the ground;
2:6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground--
2:7 then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

So, Adam is from the third day, we don't know when eve was made, and lots of other people (also in his image) were made everywhere else on the sixth day.  ta da!  At least in this respect, there is internal consistency.
And remember folks, god loves those who play hard to get, so become an agnostic, Today!
Ahem..  Roll Eyes  God also loves those who viscerally hate him.  Doesn't mean it's the best choice though.
Logged
meep-eep
Forum Admin
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2847



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #201 on: August 15, 2006, 06:32:18 am »

Always good fun when people try to reconcile conflicting stories in the Bible.
One story says Judas died by hanging himself, the other that he keeled over in a field and his bowels gushed out, so ofcourse Judas must have hung himself in a field, the branch giving away, his corpse keeling over, and then his bowels gushing out. Imagine the sight. And that without any hint of sarcasm.
You'd think the writer of the first story would have found it worthwhile to mention  "Oh, and then his bowels fell out". Maybe he ran out of ink. Yeah, that must be it.
Logged

“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
Ivan Ivanov
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 296


Internet Piracy


View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #202 on: August 15, 2006, 07:45:52 am »

So, Adam is from the third day, we don't know when eve was made, and lots of other people (also in his image) were made everywhere else on the sixth day.  ta da!  At least in this respect, there is internal consistency.

So... howcome the entire mankind was banished from Eden if it was only Adam and Eve that ate the fruit?

edit:
Ack! Wait, I think I misread your post the first time.
Let's try again.

So... howcome the entire mankind is guilty of the original sin if it was only Adam and Eve that ate the fruit?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 09:28:51 am by Ivan Ivanov » Logged

Your bruises are reminders of naivete and trust
Lukipela
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3619


The Ancient One


View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #203 on: August 15, 2006, 10:38:18 am »

Always good fun when people try to reconcile conflicting stories in the Bible.
One story says Judas died by hanging himself, the other that he keeled over in a field and his bowels gushed out, so ofcourse Judas must have hung himself in a field, the branch giving away, his corpse keeling over, and then his bowels gushing out. Imagine the sight. And that without any hint of sarcasm.
You'd think the writer of the first story would have found it worthwhile to mention  "Oh, and then his bowels fell out". Maybe he ran out of ink. Yeah, that must be it.

You're missing a long sequence of much more plausible, and quite simple explanations.

1. Judas was his last name. The betrayer cut his stomach open in his field, and his borther, shamed to know him, hung himself. Thsi was common knolwdge backthen, so they didn't feel the need to specify which Judas did what.

2. Judas hung himself. However, God was not happy with this relatively simple way of dying, so he resurrected him so that he could do it properly. Next time around, he cut his gut open and God was pleased.

3. Judas hung himself in a tree, and then cut open his gut. However, CSI Jerusalem expressed sever doubts as to wether the splatter pattern produced was really indicative of the guts falling out of him fro mthat heigth. to cover their asses, they stated two possible scenarios, that were interpreted literally by some clerk (who knew nothing about crime scene investigation).

3. Judas was (unknowingly) an alien. When he found that he was not dependent upon oxygen for survival, he had to resort to other metods.

Don't criticise the Good book, it's perfectly plausible as long as you interpret it correctly.

Quote
So... howcome the entire mankind is guilty of the original sin if it was only Adam and Eve that ate the fruit?

They were sinners by proxy. The Old Testament God was a rather harsh fellow anyway.

I would also like to express admiration for this thread, and it's multiple shifts in topic. It just goes to show.
Logged

What's up doc?
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3834


We did. You did. Yes we can. No.


View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #204 on: August 15, 2006, 04:08:39 pm »

You left out the other one, in which Judas falls over in a field, his guts spilling out. This is extremely painful, and to end it all, he hangs himself.

What do you think?
Logged
RTyp06
*Smell* controller
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 491



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #205 on: August 15, 2006, 11:18:17 pm »

  Genisis 2

19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.

Hmm how about Mosquitos, tapeworms and liver flukes? No mention of those in the good book...


  But for Adam  no suitable helper was found. So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.  Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

Just imagine what Adam could have recieved as a partner from an arm or a leg!

Then we have Poor Job....

One day the angels  came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan  also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
      Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

  "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.  "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.  But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

  The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
      Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

::: Tons of bad things happen to Job including his children dying at the hands of satan:::

 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship and said:
       "Naked I came from my mother's womb,
       and naked I will depart. 
       The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
       may the name of the LORD be praised."

 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.


It appears that the Lord has an ego and needs to prove points to Satan. Is that what we are supposed to take from this story?


« Last Edit: August 15, 2006, 11:20:05 pm by RTyp06 » Logged
Mr._Jiggles
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 208


Get Down!


View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #206 on: August 16, 2006, 12:02:23 am »

http://crusadesogiaag.ytmnd.com/

Also found some on jack chick

http://chicksgod.ytmnd.com/

http://jackchicksgod.ytmnd.com/

http://tracts.ytmnd.com/

Also realitive to this evangilical bullshit, heres Pat Robertson

http://patrobertson.ytmnd.com/

http://patrobertsondanceofpassion.ytmnd.com/

Then I think I will end this with Jesus & Raptor vs Xenu

http://jesusvsxenu.ytmnd.com/

And a lego Jesus

http://legojesus.ytmnd.com/

Hope I didn't waste to much of your time....


PS: Please kill Richard Mullins for me
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 12:05:52 am by Mr._Jiggles » Logged
Arne
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 520


Yak!


View Profile WWW
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #207 on: August 16, 2006, 01:41:14 am »

In some Hannibal movie Dr. Lector hangs a guy, but slits his belly first so the guts fall out as the rope yanks him in the fall. Quite a drop though, and hard to do on your own.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Funny site, but not always accurare. There's always the "Yeah but in ancient hebrew X can also mean ..." defence, or "...in a later passage Jesus clarifies what he REALLY meant". Regardless, the Bible is a mess, much like modern instruction manuals and DVD menus.
Logged
Lance_Vader
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 74



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #208 on: August 16, 2006, 05:16:08 am »

 Conflicting stories in the Bible.  I suppose this topic was inevitable.

Cain's wife.  This is really not a problem in the Bible.  It's not a conflicting idea.  Who said it was?  I mean, with the most literal interpretation possible, there was Adam, and there was Eve, and they had children, 'cause we know God told them to do that.  Nowhere in Genesis is it hinted that Cain and Abel were their only two children, or even their only sons.  More likely, they had lots of daughters, too, and the people who wrote the Bible (Ancient pre-Hebrew prophets) belonged to some strange culture that hardly recognized women at all in their histories (like Ancient pre-Hebrew culture).  So Cain's wife is most likely either:
Adam's daughter.
OR
Abel's daughter.

You might say "but that goes against everything in the Bible!"  No, it doesn't.  The commandment not to marry or sleep with one's sister or niece doesn't come until the law of MOSES, who lived somewhat after Adam.

As for Judas' conflicting story deaths, and Paul's conflicting conversion accounts, let me say that if both accounts read the exact same, I would be very suspicious of their origins.  If two witnesses have the exact same testimony of the exact same event, then either they are colluding, or someone changed one testimony to look better.  The fact that they maintain the same main point and contradict each other in the details really confirms to me that these are historical accounts, and not fiction.  Fiction writers would betray themselves in far, far different ways.

This being said, I agree that the Bible is quite messy.  I think it's a miracle we have anything at all that survives from those periods of time, and I'm quite grateful that it did.  It has made a great impact on us for the better.

Rtyp06:
Man has named Mosquitoes, tapeworms and liver flukes, has he not?  I don't see that this makes the scripture any less valid, but rather reaffirms it.

As for Job, I think it's a little easier to say that Satan doesn't understand loyalty, and needed God and Job to show him how powerful this is.  Job may have needed to go through trials in order to find out something about himself that he couldn't have known otherwise.  Remember also, the story of Job is a poetic work, and the dialogue between Satan and God is invented, as the writer wasn't there to talk about it intelligently.
Logged
meep-eep
Forum Admin
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2847



View Profile
Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #209 on: August 16, 2006, 05:36:07 am »

You left out the other one, in which Judas falls over in a field, his guts spilling out. This is extremely painful, and to end it all, he hangs himself.

What do you think?
I think it's quite efficient as he wouldn't need to bring a rope; he could use his intestines.
Logged

“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 20 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!