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Author Topic: Cool Comic Booklets.  (Read 61620 times)
Ivan Ivanov
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #240 on: August 17, 2006, 04:58:07 pm »

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Sorry, but what kind of answer do you expect to get from an atheist 

well, i'm one for starters, and here i was, taking religion's side.
well, i do believe in some kind of god but not in any of the religions.

Well, occasionally I also defend religion from attacks I think are unfair.
Like when some say "without religion, there'd be much less wars". I don't think it's true, we'd find other reasons/excuses to kill eachother.
But in a similiar fashion, I don't see anything that we accomplished thanks to religion, and couldn't have done so without it.
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AnotherW
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #241 on: August 17, 2006, 05:06:37 pm »

Vania:

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But in a similiar fashion, I don't see anything that we accomplished thanks to religion, and couldn't have done so without it.

oh well, so now wer'e without a debate topic  Sad

well, there's always the death penalty!  Grin
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Arne
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #242 on: August 17, 2006, 07:37:34 pm »

Maybe we came out of the dark ages despite religion, not thanks to it.

Here's some topics of debate, starting on topic, then quickly derailing.

Pascal's Wager

Jesus never existed?

0.999... = 1?

Who can name the largest number? Mine is BusyBeavers(Ackermann(Googolplex)) + 1

Is Augustina Keira's butt sexy or does it just look swollen?

What is the secret of the Grail? Who does it serve?

The Precursors are Wooly Mammoths from Earth. The woolly mammoth, Mammuthus primigenius) appeared about 300,000 years ago. Coincidence? Primigenius sounds a bit like precursor.
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AnotherW
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #243 on: August 17, 2006, 07:59:19 pm »

Arne:

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0.999... = 1?

WOW! that is way cool!

i'll have to look up whathername's butt to check...

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meep-eep
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #244 on: August 17, 2006, 08:12:44 pm »

In all fairness, the church has not always been an enemy of science. Before scientific theories became an alternative to the Bible's stories there was a time when the church would sponsor scientific research, in an attempt to learn more about God through his work.
The irony being that the more is learned about nature, the less use there is for mythology.
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #245 on: August 18, 2006, 12:41:01 am »

There are two things I find particularly interesting about religion.

A) Every human society on earth has a religion of some kind. Without exception.

B) http://www.atheistempire.com/reference/brain/main.html

A group of neuroscientists at the University of California at San Diego has identified a region of the human brain that appears to be linked to thoughts of spiritual matters and prayer. Their findings tentatively suggest that we as a species are genetically programmed to believe in God.

Now, if our noggins are indeed wired to precieve a god, it's difficult for me to accept the evolutionary concept that we evolved this as a moral code in order to keep us from destroying ourselves or the planet. how can such an arbitrary concept happen by mere accident?

To me this may be a mystery in the same vein as say, how do spiders instinctivly know how build a web, how do bees or ants instinctively know their role in their colony or why do animals instinctively know inbreeding (incest avoidance) is counter productive... etc

 Random mutation may be seen by many as a plausible mechanisim for physical body changes but how do instinctive brain processes and arbitrary shared  ideas evolve?

I cannot help but to think there is somthing a little more going on here than random accidental mutations and natural selection.
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meep-eep
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #246 on: August 18, 2006, 04:18:17 am »

I see, so only theists are created by a God, and atheists are not.
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #247 on: August 18, 2006, 05:01:45 am »

Wow, I didn't know one loose comment on genesis would create this whole new direction. I suppose everyone was just tired of the creationism vs evolutionism debate.


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A group of neuroscientists at the University of California at San Diego has identified a region of the human brain that appears to be linked to thoughts of spiritual matters and prayer. Their findings tentatively suggest that we as a species are genetically programmed to believe in God. Now, if our noggins are indeed wired to precieve a god, it's difficult for me to accept the evolutionary concept that we evolved this as a moral code in order to keep us from destroying ourselves or the planet. how can such an arbitrary concept happen by mere accident?

That's an interesting quote, but I think you took it in a direction that is only one of many (and not very probable.)

I think religion instinct is how we beat neanderthals. Such a belief allowed us to sort of override certain instincts, like fear of death making us braver and more focused warriors. Those stumpy dudes could have fallen victim to a prehistoric jihad, or series of such.

In essence, spirituallity could be a new drive, a new emotion, even if it is not always channeled through belief in deities. It also evolved in tandem with art, methinks, and probably not by coincidence.

Then again, maybe it is not quite so new. I have always wondered if the reason why orcas don't eat humans (though they eat other cetaceans) is because we have someplace in their religion of sorts. We could be like gods, or a sacred animal. The other possibility is that they sonagram us and hear that we don't have any real blubber on our bones thus aren't worth eating (whereas sharks don't realize this until they've had a sample.) But this theory doesn't explain why obese people are left alone (every beach in america would be listed "orca infested waters!" as they'd all come here for us plump lard buoys.) Sad
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Arne
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #248 on: August 18, 2006, 06:44:42 am »

I see, so only theists are created by a God, and atheists are not.

Anti-theists would be created by god though?

(I mean since they actively pick one of an infinite amount of arbitrarily defined gods, then choose to believe it can't exist, and thus arguably could be said to have faith or a religion (if we equate those). An atheist merely ignores having beliefs about any of the infinite amount of possible gods.)
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RTyp06
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #249 on: August 18, 2006, 11:38:56 pm »





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That's an interesting quote, but I think you took it in a direction that is only one of many (and not very probable.)

But what do you make of the fact that every society on earth has religious beliefs and rituals passed down from generation to generation? From ancient times to the 21st century, religion is a large part of the human experience for many.

 Perhaps it is due to our misunderstandings of the world around us. Fearing natural phenomena and needing to explain it I can understand, but why does religion go so much further than that and how did we evolve this need to explain the universe around us in the first place?

Quote
In essence, spirituallity could be a new drive, a new emotion, even if it is not always channeled through belief in deities. It also evolved in tandem with art, methinks, and probably not by coincidence.

It's difficult for me to think of emotion evolving via. random mutation, natural selection. How does natural selection select for happiness , sadness, jealousy, hatred (or a combination there of)? Are there selection pressures to push a species in this evolutionary direction? If spirituallity is a new emotion would it really work in favor of homosapiens  to out compete neanderthals?

Quote
Then again, maybe it is not quite so new. I have always wondered if the reason why orcas don't eat humans (though they eat other cetaceans) is because we have someplace in their religion of sorts.

Orcas are related to porposies and dolphins. Dolphins, for some reason, seem to love humans. They are very curious about us. They've been known to defend humans from sharks and have even developed fishing relationships with humans. They work to drive fish into fisherman's nets. In turn, the nets present an obsticle for fish to escape so they get easy meal. What's weird about it is that they work in teams and know exactly what they are doing, behaving in a well orcastrated manner where each dolphin has a role.

The very fact that biological beings can learn, modify their behavior accordingly and work in fairly complex teams is difficult for me envision through a random mutaion / natural selection mechanisim..
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meep-eep
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #250 on: August 19, 2006, 12:54:03 am »

It's difficult for me to think of emotion evolving via. random mutation, natural selection. How does natural selection select for happiness , sadness, jealousy, hatred (or a combination there of)? Are there selection pressures to push a species in this evolutionary direction?
The feeling of happiness when things are ok stimulates the individual to keep things as they are. As individuals which are ok are more likely to survive, happiness mechanisms are more likely to survive.
Conversely, sadness will stimulate the individual to change things.
Hatred/anger serves as a deterrent, making other individuals think twice before doing something to anger an individual, from which the latter benefits.
Jealousy does the same thing, as well as giving an incentive to take action.

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...a well orcastrated manner...
Pun intended?

Now the ones I wonder about are appreciation of music, and humour.

Edit: perhaps these serve as a reward to stimulate the recognition of patterns, thereby helping the evolution of intelligence.

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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #251 on: August 19, 2006, 07:05:08 am »

meep-eep:
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Now the ones I wonder about are appreciation of music, and humour.

Edit: perhaps these serve as a reward to stimulate the recognition of patterns, thereby helping the evolution of intelligence.

i would definately agree with you about the music but i don't see how you think humour is about pattern recognition?
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #252 on: August 19, 2006, 07:37:16 am »

Humor can be about breaking patterns. Maybe the wikipedia article can shed some light.
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #253 on: August 19, 2006, 08:50:10 am »

Arne:

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Humor can be about breaking patterns. Maybe the wikipedia article can shed some light.

from what i read, it would seem that humour is tied very intracately with language and language developed fairly late, in fact i would think language developed during or after the period of time where evolution began to affect us less as a species so it would seem it helped a lot in devolpment of lingual skills but is not a direct survival trait in own right.
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Re: Cool Comic Booklets.
« Reply #254 on: August 19, 2006, 08:11:46 pm »

Telling a joke is a great way to make people think more of you and win their trust or whatever. It doesn't explain why we think for example "the ministry of silly walks" is funny. It's about doing something unexpected (breaking the walk pattern we know), and that should just be merely surprising. The only reason I can think of is cultural. If someone laughs or we hear laughter, we tend to atleast smile aswell. I have a 1 yo niece, when she gets grumpy it helps a lot to do unusual things and laugh, so in a way I'm training her in humor.

I bet there's some webpage about the origins of humor, tried searching?

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