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Author Topic: War in the middle east  (Read 12020 times)
GeomanNL
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Re: War in the middle east
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2006, 07:24:12 pm »

It seems like this war is going to end early tomorrow.
I saw someone on CNN say, that Israel could've done much more damage than it did. I believe that, so I'd like to conclude this with "it could've been worse".
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AnotherW
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Re: War in the middle east
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2006, 07:37:57 pm »

Quote
It seems like this war is going to end early tomorrow

and a feverent AMEN to that!
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UAF
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Re: War in the middle east
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2006, 02:38:14 pm »

So it's over... And only now did I read this thread Smiley
I actually had a few email exchanged with Geo on the matter in the last few days, and I think I was able to change his view a little bit.

Anyway, a few points and some information, not all equally important:

1) I think Censored 's link
http://www.freedoms.calebflerk.com/hararispeech.htm
Is a very informative article and a must read to all.

2) Some of you suggested attacking Syria and Iran, some suggest various border creating schemes. Did you know that soldiers are people too?
That it's not cool when they die?
And that's why starting a war with Syria is a bad idea.

3) Killing civilians, over reacting and such:
People die in wars, when the question is "our soldiers or their civilians" in regards of bombing areas the answer should, IMO, clearly be their civilians. Of course for the outsiders it's their soldiers or the other theirs civilians. So you see it differently. Smiley

But actually, we usually avoided killing their civilians in many occasions. We warned ahead of bombing, we sent in soldiers where we could have used air strikes. Hey, we could've gone on with SD's plan and occupied the area. That's much less human!

4) SD's plan:
Very naive in all fields IMO.

A) Instead of fighting just Hezbollah personal this would've caused EVERYONE in the area to fight us - when they come to destroy your home and throw you elsewhere you fight, and to the death. This means much bloodier battles, and many more civilians killed while trying to defend their houses from the evil Israelis.

B) No one in the UN would've agreed to this. The disregard of human's right by such a plan, the resulting bloodshed and the economical damage would've been enormous.

C) We have nothing to do with the evacuated people. Other countries would NOT have taken them. It's better to leave us to choke on them. Who care if those civilians suffer even more? Certainly not Syria.

D) Israel is not rich. I don't know what caused you to think that Israel is rich, but it is not. And you see people here asking why the US should financially help Israel with legitimate problems, do you think the US will finance this plan?

E) The chunk of Lebanon taken to assure that missiles won't reach Haifa is considerable. And what about other cities north to Haifa? It's not even close to be the northest city. A larger buffer zone then? Not gonna work.

F) Constantly loosing soldiers in this new buffer zone is also unacceptable. Think of them as future civilians if soldiers don't seem important to you. They'll be civilians in 3 years anyway.

5) The Sky Guard system development, FYI, has stopped in 2004. The US is not threatened by Katyusha's so why develop defenses against it? Smiley
And so the development of the first Laser cannon in the world stopped. Sad

6) Regarding Jews living in other states and their safety there. Including US decision to ally with Israel.
A) Israel is a big red flag in front of the Muslim world's eyes, remove that and another target will be chosen - probably the US. Maybe you should finance us after all eh? Smiley
Also the US chose to support democracy and western lifestyle in the world, and not oppressing and regressed lifestyle. Might be a costly decision, but it is a decision to the side of what western culture define as "good" and "right".
Of course you can close your eyes and pretend that the Arab countries are not oppressive, corrupt and only deteriorating. I really mean that you can - look at France they do it all the time.

B) Here is a nice link for you
http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/1_78931098.htm
This is why I still feel safer in Israel. It is also why I prefer on working to make Israel safer then on making the rest of the world safer for my ethnic group.

On the side note:
Why didn't anyone tell me that Jews rule the world?! I have to hear it from people objecting to it?!
Couldn't you at least send a memo? I'm filthy rich, rules of the world, and no one tells me. This is outrageous!
I want all of you to jump on one leg 10 times as a show of loyalty to me! Bwuahaha!!!


Anyway that's it. I came in the end of the discussion anyway.
I'll just stress this article again
http://www.freedoms.calebflerk.com/hararispeech.htm

Since this is about the next incident, not the last one.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 06:00:33 pm by UAF » Logged
GeomanNL
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Re: War in the middle east
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2006, 03:42:12 pm »

Imo the hariri speech puts too little weight on the enormous influence of the west on global military, politics and economics.

Anyway, I think the war came a bit too soon, not all diplomatic possibilities were explored. Although Hizballah did stretch Israeli patience to the limit by 6 years of irritating border skirmishes.
However, for some reason diplomatic negotiations were cancelled a few years ago. I think because the US doesn't want to negotiate with what they perceive as a terrorist organization (imo it's more than that).
So, war was inevitable.

Given that war is inevitable, I think that indeed, Israel did a lot to minimize casualties.
It warned people in advance.
It also didn't rely entirely on long-range attacks, but also on incursion mission.

However, I do think that the war did an enormous amount of damage to Lebanese and Israeli economies (billions of dollars).
Also, I think this war was very bad public relations for the "west" and especially for the US and Israel. I hope this won't have severe impact on the longer term (after all, arab countries own a lot of oil which the west needs). Fortunately, the war ended fairly soon, so hopefully this damage is limited.

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AnotherW
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Re: War in the middle east
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2006, 11:18:30 pm »

well i was going to back down and let this topic die out since it went really quiet but since there was something i was itching to post and this topic woke up on it's own...

chck this out
http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp

and an old favorite (pallywood, if anyone saw it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1opys
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