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News: Celebrating 30 years of Star Control 2 - The Ur-Quan Masters

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Author Topic: A question on Open Source...  (Read 19507 times)
Culture20
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2006, 04:28:21 am »
Quote from: Lukipela on August 22, 2006, 09:00:30 pm
Oh, and I had forgotten how awesome that Ur-Quan 04 thing was. It is truly inspired.
I concur, and I tend to the politcal right.   Grin
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Deus Siddis
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2006, 03:07:07 pm »
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But Star Trek gets their arse kicked by Star Wars.

Hehe, that's not so bad. A little choppy but funny none the less.


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Oh, and I had forgotten how awesome that Ur-Quan 04 thing was. It is truly inspired.

I'd vote for them, just to hear their music play during the press briefings.
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Death 999
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2006, 05:19:26 pm »
Quote from: Lukipela on August 22, 2006, 09:00:30 pm
Quote from: Zieman on August 22, 2006, 12:18:42 pm
The Furry Conflict mayhaps..? Wink

Nope. To be honest, I doubt it is around anymore. It was insanely long, around 200 pages or some such, and the SW side was post empire, with han and leias children having gone over to the dark side after their parents murder.

That really sounds like Darth Wong's fanfic, findable on Stardestroyer.net (if nowhere else, on the forums)
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nick012000
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2006, 10:40:37 pm »
It's here too.
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Neutrino 123
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2006, 11:31:11 am »
Quote from: Lukipela on August 21, 2006, 08:17:03 pm
Quote from: Deus_Siddis on August 21, 2006, 04:13:46 pm
Star Wars wins, hands down. Star Trek would too.

But Star Trek gets their arse kicked by Star Wars.

Are you crazy? One Galaxy class starship beat a super star destroyer and survives an entire fleet (to retreat safely) and that's getting beaten? That's a Bunker Hill style victory 'if we keep winning battles like this, we'll lose the war!'. Grin
Hehe...


Another note, I wouldn't use stardestroyer.net for precise information. It seems to be fairly biased. THe following site is better: http://www.st-v-sw.net/
I haven't looked at it in a while. I believe it has a few mistakes, but it's mostly good...

To compare Star Control to Star Trek or Star Wars, one could probably use the MX missile to get an idea of relative firepowers.
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2006, 04:34:56 pm »
Except that there's no nukes in star wars and you never get to see a nuke hitting a trek ship directly.
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Death 999
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2006, 07:14:21 pm »
Quote from: Neutrino 123 on August 27, 2006, 11:31:11 am
Are you crazy?
Are you?


Quote from: Neutrino 123 on August 27, 2006, 11:31:11 am
Another note, I wouldn't use stardestroyer.net for precise information. It seems to be fairly biased.

Yes, it is biased in the same direction as the visual evidence. And visual evidence has a well-known SW bias (to paraphrase a more political statement)

Quote from: Neutrino 123 on August 27, 2006, 11:31:11 am
THe following site is better: http://www.st-v-sw.net/
I haven't looked at it in a while. I believe it has a few mistakes, but it's mostly good...

Erm. The overview provides an absurd estimate of SW power-generation capabilities. They then move from there to firepower calculations which are contradictory with the very easy to see elements of Alderaan, and even Slave-1 toasting asteroids.
The overview then seems to say that the UFP goes faster than the empire.
Uh, what? Seen AotC recently? Compare to Voyager.

No, they're not vaguely accurate.

Quote from: Neutrino 123 on August 27, 2006, 11:31:11 am
One Galaxy class starship beat a super star destroyer and survives an entire fleet (to retreat safely) and that's getting beaten?

so... no.
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Culture20
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2006, 09:36:33 pm »
Whoa, whoa, whoa!  Gentlemen, the Wars vs Trek skirmish already has dedicated battlefields.  If we're going to co-opt a thread, lets stay on topic; throw a little Control in the mix.  Cheesy
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Neutrino 123
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2006, 12:22:00 am »
I don't really want to debate Star * vs. Star **. I was just linking that site for those interested. As I previously said, I thinkt hat both sites make major mistakes. As a physicist, I know that some things they try to explain in terms of everyday things actually need futuristic sci-fi explanations.

Anyway, we can calculate the power of Star Control weapons. The MX missile today is equipped with several conical warheads, each about as tall as a human.
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Weapons/W87.html
According to this site, each warhead is 300 kilotons worth of energy, with an upgrade possible to 475 kilotons. Since the Star Control warheads need to take out Dreadnoughts, it is reeasonable to assume that the warheads are indeed the upgraded variety. Thus, since the missile carries ten warheads, 4.75 megatons (4.97 petajoules - 4.97x10^15 joules) per missile is a reasonable estimate, or very roughly 1.1875 megatons  (19.9 petajoules - 1.99x10^16 joules)per point of damage.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 12:27:39 am by Neutrino 123 » Logged
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2006, 06:22:13 am »
For more evidence that star wars would murder star trek in battle, look at the size differences between the candy assed, robo-moralist, tightly-wound, federation blabber-mouth geeksters' fungus shaped petting-zoo/luxury-suite-hotel/warships and the unyielding power of the galactic empire's imperial armada!:

http://www.merzo.net/index.html

And this is without taking into account the power of the force. All picard can do is slow time a little. That's good if you are late for your shuttle, not so good if you need to counter distance force choking.


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If we're going to co-opt a thread, lets stay on topic; throw a little Control in the mix.

Then why not throw in a little Flight or Craft.


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Anyway, we can calculate the power of Star Control weapons.

That is only useful if the other universes you wish to make this comparision against use the same measurement system you work out. I don't remember them mentioning kilotons in Star Wars.
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Neutrino 123
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2006, 08:07:00 am »
I am not sure what you mean by your comment on measurement systems. I'm using regular kilotons. I even converted to joules. 4.18 joules will heat one cubic centimeter of water by one kelvin. I remember some calculations on the site that I linked that had things in joules. What else would one use to find energy?

As for the force choke, I say that force is lame! Grin If Darth Vader was really so awesome, he would totally have just force choked all the rebels from orbit - or something. Grin

Finally, I would like to make a general comment here on size comparisons. Size taken by itself is much less relevant then having size and power together. If one calculates a certain level of power in a ship, then if the power is crammed into a smaller area, the ship has higher technology level. If it takes alot of space and mass to get the same power, a lower level of technology is implied.
This means that estimates of the Ur-Quan Dreadnought being a kilometer long are absurd, taken together with the Shofixti Scout being 5m long. This would imply that the Scout is far more advanced! Wink
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2006, 03:26:44 pm »
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I am not sure what you mean by your comment on measurement systems. I'm using regular kilotons. I even converted to joules. 4.18 joules will heat one cubic centimeter of water by one kelvin. I remember some calculations on the site that I linked that had things in joules. What else would one use to find energy?

It's not about what we use to measure energy, it is how it is measured in the other universes, especially Star Wars, which happens so long and far from here that they wouldn't use any of those measures.
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2006, 04:08:11 pm »
The technical manuals were not written in a galaxy far, far away, though...
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Neutrino 123
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2006, 09:42:59 am »
Oh, we definitely can't accept what the characters in any television show or movie say as being 100% accurate (even assuming they use the same units as us, and I would think that they would not refer to a popular unit while actually meaning something different). Almost everyone makes mistakes sometimes or could simply be wrong. Another explanation is that they are just exagerrating or being sarcastic as a minor joke.
Important calculations to determine abilities are done based on seemingly accurate statements and actual results.

As for technical manuals, they should always be ignored. They are not part of the actual shows at all. Who know if the authors even know the differance between a watt and a joule? I admit that I've only looked at one technical manual at some point in the distant past, but it was full of mistakes compared to the show, and how would it have any bearing on the actual show in the first place?
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Re: A question on Open Source...
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2006, 05:24:19 pm »
Considering that the author of the SW technical manuals was a consultant for ILM when they were producing the prequels, and his technical manuals are considered canon, and happens to be a PhD in physics...

I'd say he knows a watt from a joule and his material is relevant.
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