the Earthling Cruiser

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the Earthling Cruiser

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Topic: the Earthling Cruiser (Read 13826 times)

Icemage_999
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2006, 11:29:47 am »

Quote from: Mugz the Sane on September 01, 2006, 09:25:14 am

OT: Incidentally, I don't think it's a coincidence that the capital ship crew sizes are '42' on all of them. Another nod to Adams, maybe?

I hope my insights have not been too off-base. But now I am going to go, hunt down, kill, gut, clean, prepare and consume a cigarette and some coffee.

Might be an interesting question for TFB sometime if someone can ever corner them again (particularly since they might be more talkative, with their current campaign to get a new Star Control title released). I think it's very likely, though it could also be a case of accidental design, since those side profiles with the bars exactly fit into the original 640x480 screen size.

---

I wouldn't try to read too much into any of the ship sizes.

One must remember that:

(a) Most of the ships were originally designed and drawn in Star Control I, long before much, if any of the backstory for Star Control II was created. I am sure they were sized and scaled based on the tactical implications within the Melee mode of SC1, rather than conforming to any set relative size ratios.

(b) If we're looking at relative sizes, there are tons of items in SC2 that don't compute. Orz marines are significantly larger than Ur-Quan Dreadnought fighters (come to think of it, they're faster than the fighters, too, since they can Gravity Whip... not to mention being able to take much more damage). And thinking about how it's possible that a single alien crew member can kill an Orz invader with a sidearm when it can take a direct hit from, say, a Syreen Penetrator's main gun and still keep on trucking makes my head hurt.


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Arne
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2006, 11:40:44 am »

If using a large ship scale, I'd say that each melee 1on1 battle is just an abstraction of large space fleets engaging, say a thousands of Shofixti Scouts against a couple of Kzer-Za Dreadnaughts... kind of like the many hundred fighters and torpedo planes against Yamato or her sister ship. This would fit better with the epic nature of the game.


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Icemage_999
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2006, 11:46:01 am »

Quote from: Arne on September 01, 2006, 11:40:44 am

That rationalization works OK in SC1, but remember that you have just the one capital ship in SC2, not to mention there are numerous battles where you are specifically fighting a single enemy, such as the first Ilwrath you fight at the beginning, the Slylandro Probes, Tanaka (and Fwiffo if you screw up and make him fight you).


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Lukipela
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2006, 01:52:19 pm »

Quote from: Mugz the Sane on September 01, 2006, 09:25:14 am

Compare the dreadnought and the scout. If we go with the dreadnought as being colossally big, then (according to the melee scaling) the scout must also be pretty big. Big enough to be able to lay siege to a moon, or a large asteroid at least.

Thank you. i shall henceforth refer to the Scout as either a"Large Asteroidary Siege Unit" or a "Planetoidary Siege Unit".


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Death 999
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2006, 06:08:22 pm »

Well, according to SC1, it is fully capable of wiping out enemy colonies and mining facilities, isn't it?


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Mugz the Sane
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2006, 10:36:07 am »

errr, that wasn't exactly what I meant, but 'Large Asteroidary Siege Unit' does almost seem to fit. Still, it fits the probe more.


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Arne
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2006, 11:18:20 am »

Quote from: Death 999 on September 01, 2006, 06:08:22 pm

Well, according to SC1, it is fully capable of wiping out enemy colonies and mining facilities, isn't it?

So is a single modern fighter jet with a few precision bombs, although they're often some 15-20 meters. A planetery siege unit could be a 50m cruiser filled with heatshielded nukes it drops from orbit. These only need rudimentary guidance systems. A 475kt (re-entry cone / payload) nuke is about the size of a... dwarf. Double that size for heat shields and guidance systems. Now you have something along the lines of a barrel. Pack those tight in launch tubes, spend 1hr orbiting the planet and drop 100 of them (takes up some 3^3m of space). Each nuke would level some 50sq.km. Multiply by Ur-Quan technology. Enough to 'siege' any civilization I say.

Remember that a planet is rather huge. A spaceship is still a piece of dust even if you make it 1km. Siege doesn't mean planet rivaling size. A siege-tank is pretty darn small compared to a city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nuclear_weapon_size_chart.jpg

Slightly irrelevant, but possibly of intrest:
http://fathom.lib.uchicago.edu/2/21701757/


« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 11:27:11 am by Arne »	Logged

Neonlare
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2006, 01:09:03 pm »

That's a strange thing I just noticed, why is a nuclear war-head called a "Peacekeeper"?


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AnotherW
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2006, 01:51:55 pm »

Quote from: Neonlare on September 02, 2006, 01:09:03 pm

That's a strange thing I just noticed, why is a nuclear war-head called a "Peacekeeper"?

hehehe.....
well, mainly because after you drop it everything is peaceful for a while... and then you have to drop another one.


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Culture20
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2006, 06:18:55 pm »

Quote from: Neonlare on September 02, 2006, 01:09:03 pm

That's a strange thing I just noticed, why is a nuclear war-head called a "Peacekeeper"?

Because at the time peacekeepers were created, the main purpose of nukes were as a deterrent, like big body-guards.


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Icemage_999
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2006, 12:47:13 am »

Quote from: Neonlare on September 02, 2006, 01:09:03 pm

That's a strange thing I just noticed, why is a nuclear war-head called a "Peacekeeper"?

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius, from
Epitoma Rei Militaris

Translation from Latin into English: "Whoever wishes for peace, let him prepare for war"

Icemage


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Neutrino 123
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2006, 03:38:22 am »

Cruiser length is known to be about 223.5 meters from pervious calculation.

Cruiser length is 84 pixels in zoomed in melee mode at 640x480 resolution when pointed right.

Cruiser length is 70 pixels in zoomed in melee mode at 640x480 resolution when pointed up.

Vindicator length is 100 pixels (108 with the glowing engine) in zoomed in melee mode at 640x480 resolution when pointed right.

Vindicator length is 86 pixels (94 with the glowing engine) in zoomed in melee mode at 640x480 resolution when pointed up.

Taking the average of these lengths gives the Cruiser a length of 77 pixels and the Vindicator a length of 93 pixels (101 with the glowing engine). This means that the melee size of the Vindicator is 270 meters (293 with the glowing engine).

Now I will try to calculate the length of the Vindicator from the colony screen I previously posted. I will leave out the glowing engine, since one cannot see it in the picture, so the expected length is 270m.

The three nearest humans are 7 pixels each. Assuming that if they were standing right next to the front of the ship, let’s call it six pixels and give them a height of 1.8 meters. Let’s also assume that the ship is rotated 45 degrees from the viewpoint. The length of the line is ~560 pixels, so 560*1.4*1.8/6 = 235m. For such a rough estimate, this is fairly good agreement. For example, if the people used to size the thing were 2 meters tall and I extended the line a bit further back (I had to estimate where the back of the engine “plate” was), the estimate would agree almost exactly with the melee prediction (which has a fairly small uncertainty due to the ship’s orientation, about +-5 meters).

Thus, I think we can be fairly confidant that the melee sizes are roughly correct.


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-Neutrino 123 (pronounced Neutrino One-Two-Three)

Neutrino 123
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Re: the Earthling Cruiser
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2006, 09:52:15 am »

I posted this in another thread, but will cross-post it here, since the images go equally well in each:

I used the site http://www.merzo.net to get some relative lengths and added the Cruiser in (see previous calculation of 223.5 meters). Thus, I can now present two images with a bunch of popular ships in 1 pixel = 1 meter and 1 pixel = 2 meters scaling.


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-Neutrino 123 (pronounced Neutrino One-Two-Three)

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