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Original source code release
« on: September 24, 2006, 11:07:09 pm »

Been reading through here and there seems that even though the original source package was released to the public, there is no where to get it. The toys for bob site doesn't have it, Google search comes up empty. All the posts I see on here about this get either directed to the remake source, or the "very close to the original release"  first cvs version. I don't want the remake, source or not, I don't want to look at the sort of release. I would like to see the original source package as released to the public. As the developers here obviously used it as a starting point, why is it not available anywhere on that site?

To sum this up, Where the bloody hell can I get the original source package in its original form as released by toys for bob?!
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2006, 11:49:37 pm »

The words "original source release" should not be read "original source" release, but original "source release".  The source code that  TFB released out into the wild had already seen a lot of twitching to make it not need a 3DO.  The closest the public has is in CVS.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2006, 11:59:59 pm »

No, I'm not buying that. TFB released the source to the public, not "The closest the public has". I'm assuming it was not released as a cvs repository so the original package that they released, whatever its content, has to be somewhere.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 01:04:25 am »

the original package is in the cvs repository, there is no more "original" source code from the 3DO or the original PC version, it was already tweaked by TFB before they released it to the public and amazingly it does compile and run.

If you really want to find out yourself you could e-mail Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III...
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006, 01:23:16 am »

No, I'm not buying that. TFB released the source to the public, not "The closest the public has". I'm assuming it was not released as a cvs repository so the original package that they released, whatever its content, has to be somewhere.
First of all, the original PC source code is apparently completely lost; TFB doesn't have it, at least. The 3DO source code was preliminarily ported to Windows by Chris Nelson of Toys for Bob before it was released to the public; the original 3DO source code is not available and apparently never has been.

The code marked "initial" and "tfb" in CVS is dated 2002-09-03 and committed by Meep-eep. A lot of changes to the directory layout and file names were made after the initial upload on 2002-08-17 by Chris (the first public release, based on sc2-devel mailing list traffic; this would appear to falsify your assumption), and it was deemed cleaner to wipe the repository and reimport.

As far as I can tell, the earliest version in the CVS repository right now differs from the initial public release you want only in that it includes Meep-eep's mega-patch, which is mostly fixes to get the whole shebang to compile on Linux and the aforementioned reorganisation. From a features point of view, the "initial" CVS version is the same as the initial, short-lived, CVS "release".

For most purposes, I'd say there is little difference between what you can get from CVS and the "initial public release". If the exact file names or obscure compiler directives that were changed in the initial turmoil are relevant to you, Meep-eep or some other old-timer may be able to provide the first version he received.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 01:28:36 am »

Before TFB released the code under the GPL, an SC2 fan, Chris Nelson, spent an internship at TFB working at the port (he's now an employee there). After his internship, the code as it was then is what we got and what was checked into CVS.
After a while, we asked TFB for the original source, and we did get some zip file with a backup of some directory from some Mac. It had the Mac file types attached as file extensions, some filenames were in all-caps, and the line endings were in Mac style. But also, it contained some files that I'm pretty sure they didn't intend to release. So we ofcourse did not spread them further.
Giving us those original sources files was all rather quick and informal, and as none of those files carried copyright messages, I consider them given as informational. They're certainly not released under the GPL.
I've at some point cleaned up those original sources (line endings and file names fixed, non-sc2 files removed, no changes the the code itself), and I have on occasion passed the result along to others in the same informational spirit and I'll do the same for you (check your PM).
But if you're planning to do a port of your own, based on that code, ask TFB first, as these files were never released under the GPL. I'm pretty sure they'll give you permission though.

Btw. Why the hostile attitude? Flies, honey, vinegar etc, you know.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2006, 01:36:51 am »

I've at some point cleaned up those original sources (line endings and file names fixed, non-sc2 files removed, no changes the the code itself), and I have on occasion passed the result along to others in the same informational spirit and I'll do the same for you (check your PM).
Secret TFB SC2 files? Consider my curiosity officially piqued. Wink
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2006, 02:39:25 am »

Ok, sorry for being a bit peeved, but reading back through the old posts about others requesting the same as I and getting the same story I did is aggravating to say the least. Also reading results from google stated that the source code to the 3do version was released to the public. Asking on here if that original release (I would assume in a zip or tar) as received from them is available seems to be shrouded in secrecy. I mean you guys had to start with something to make your port, and I have to assume that TFB didn't just set up a cvs and upload the source tree. I'm not interested in a port, or a cleaned up version of the source. I just wanted to browse the source as it was released by them. I thank you for the file you did send, but I have to assume that was not what you originally started with. Was it just the source? A package of source and data files? Graphics? This original release has to exist somewhere.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2006, 03:28:27 am »

What we (the devs outside of TFB) started with is the version that Chris checked into SourceForge CVS. He had already spent a few months as an intern at TFB working on it. He had already ported much to SDL, and the game would already do something on Windows.

What he started out with I don't know. When we asked for the original source, we got two zip files, one named "src_original_backup.zip", containing the source, which is what I sent you, but with mangled filenames and line endings, and some extra files that shouldn't have been there in the first place. It looked to me to be the genuine unmodified 3DO source.

The other zip file, named "original_remote.zip" contained the content. This was not the original 3DO content; it contained text for the aliens, and that didn't exist on the 3DO version. But it wasn't the PC version either as it didn't have actual code inside the .cod files. Maybe it was some intermediate version that they used on the Mac that they were developing the 3DO version on. It does contain what could be autodesk animator files. Or maybe it was the 3DO content after some modifications for UQM. We didn't use any of it at any rate.

There were also a few tools which Chris must have used at TFB. I forgot I had them, but  I eventually checked them in into CVS in the "tools" module, where there are also some of our own. We never modified the old tools.

And this is all we have. I was there from the moment the first code left TFB. If there was anything else, I would have known about it. So if you want more, you'll have to go to TFB.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 03:31:41 am by meep-eep » Logged

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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2006, 04:01:29 am »

Ok, so it seems my confusion exists as all the news sites and google searches came up with "source released to public" in their articles, so if I'm reading you right then that never happened, it was released only to this project as a source tree via cvs?

If that is the case then you have my apologies for not understanding, although I hope you can understand my confusion with the whole thing.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2006, 04:27:24 am »

Well, by putting code in publicly accessible CVS on SF, it was released to the public. But the source that was released to the public was not the unmodified 3DO code.
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Re: Original source code release
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2006, 09:02:44 am »

Yeah, I can quite easily believe the original PC source is long gone.

The same happened with the source code for Blood 1, which is why no Windows ports (Similar to EDuke32) exist, other than the clone project Transfusion :-(

This kind of thing is the reason why I think ALL source code and game resources for ALL games on ALL platforms should be released as freely under open-source 5 years after the games initial release.

I doubt the publishers will ever be keen on that though...
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