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Author Topic: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?  (Read 5003 times)
LiquidPEANUT
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Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« on: October 24, 2006, 10:06:45 pm »

I've been thinking about this a long time. At every conversation there are subtitles, but what if it is possible to make the subtitles at your own language while the speech remain original? I'm Dutch and I don't have any trouble reading and listening English. But a friend of mine is having trouble reading and listening English. The Dutch subtitles wil make it possible to understand the story more. Also the other players from other countries would be able to understand more. I thought while it is open source it maybe could be a good idea at the next version. What do you think (I mean the players and the programmers of course Wink )? And of course: Is it possible...?
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2006, 10:43:20 pm »

It is possible and has been done. For some reason, I can't manage to get the forums search function to show any results on any search, but as I recall there have been projects to translate it to at least german and russian, possibly other languages as well. It's supposedly fairly easy to swap the text fies, but the actual translation will be of course be much more challenging.

UQM contains numerous puns and wordplays that are specific to english and that are ptentially hard to translate. Sure, just the words can easily enough be translated, but the meaning and spirit is much much tougher.

*cue meep to come in and give his umgah example, and link to wherever in the FAQ's and ultronomicon these kind of projects are stored.

EDIT : Well, the info you seek is here. But I like the example, so I hope meep can come in and give it again.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2006, 11:01:39 pm »

Well, this was the example I used:
Quote
To Arms! To Arms!... wait a minute! Don't HAVE any arms!
AIEE!! MY ARMS!! MY ARMS!! WHO HAS STOLEN MY ARMS!!! AIEEE!! ARM THIEF!!!
Har! Har! Har!... Never HAD any arms! Har! Har! Har!
Try and translate that.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2006, 12:18:01 am »

Quote
Aan Wapens! Aan Wapens! … wacht een minuut! HEBBEN geen wapens! AIEE!! MIJN WAPENS!! MIJN WAPENS!! DE WGO HEEFT MIJN WAPENS!! GESTOLEN! AIEEE!! DE DIEF VAN HET WAPEN!!! Har! Har! Har! … HAD nooit om het even welke wapens! Har! Har! Har!

i hope thats actually translated correctly  Grin
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 02:19:12 am »

Good job. I especially like it how the world health organisation has his (her?) weapons.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 03:01:35 am »

LMAO
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 08:21:26 am »

why on earth would the world health organisation want to steal an umgah's weapons? Confiscate would be more understandable...
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 09:58:36 am »

Quote
Aan Wapens! Aan Wapens! … wacht een minuut! HEBBEN geen wapens! AIEE!! MIJN WAPENS!! MIJN WAPENS!! DE WGO HEEFT MIJN WAPENS!! GESTOLEN! AIEEE!! DE DIEF VAN HET WAPEN!!! Har! Har! Har! … HAD nooit om het even welke wapens! Har! Har! Har!

i hope thats actually translated correctly  Grin
Am I missing something here (I don't really speak Dutch, but it's close enough to English and German for me to figure out what's going on), or is the "translated" joke language-independent (i.e. no pun involved)? If so, it could be a useful fall-back in case of punning difficulties.

In any case, I prefer the Finnish translation:
Quote from: Umgah
No puhkokaa koteloni! Se ihmismaanasukki jälleen!
Se nyt ei vain opi, eihän? Annetaan sille isän kädestä!... hetkipieni! Ei OLE käsiä!
AARGHH! KÄTENI!! KUKA ON VARASTANUT KÄTENI!!! AAAARGGHHH!! KÄSIVARAS!!!
Hah! Hah! Hah!... Ei ole KOSKAAN ollut käsiä! Hah! Hah! Hah!

Quick literal back-translation:
Well, pop my pupa! It Human Earthling again!
It just doesn't learn, does it? Let's give it a taste of a father's hand! [translator's note: "Let's give it some old-fashioned discipline!" is a close equivalent] ... One little moment! HAVE no hands!
AARGHH! MY HANDS! WHO'S STOLEN MY HANDS!!! AAAARGGHHH!! HAND THIEF!!!
Ha! Ha! Ha!... NEVER had any hands! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Hopefully, almost every language has at least one idiom involving violence that references a body part the Umgah don't have.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2006, 12:25:13 pm »

I always found it odd that someone wanted to do a finnish translation. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not criticizing the project. It just seems a tad... unnecessary.

 I mean german or spanish or (especially) french sure, all those people belonging to major languages who dub their television shows tend to have a weak grasp of foreign languages (Stereotyping YAY!. Not everyone. but a lot).

But finnish? There is more english spoken on TV in finland then actual finnish. I'd always assumed that anyone capable of using  a computer in Finland would also have a good enough grasp of the english language to enjoy this game.

Still, that is an impressive translation Novus. Obviously the people doing the translation are talented and capable.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2006, 01:56:47 pm »

I always found it odd that someone wanted to do a finnish translation. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not criticizing the project. It just seems a tad... unnecessary.

I mean german or spanish or (especially) french sure, all those people belonging to major languages who dub their television shows tend to have a weak grasp of foreign languages (Stereotyping YAY!. Not everyone. but a lot).
In my experience, many French people have an actively hostile or at least indifferent attitude toward other languages, including English. They are also sufficiently many to demand translations. None of this applies to Finns; not speaking English is a major career blocker in many cases in Finland.

Quote
But finnish? There is more english spoken on TV in finland then actual finnish. I'd always assumed that anyone capable of using  a computer in Finland would also have a good enough grasp of the english language to enjoy this game.
It is true that computer games are very seldom translated into Finnish and there appears to be little demand for it. A few top-selling games may get translated manuals and packaging (e.g. Worms, Starcraft, GTA3), but the translation is often quick and dirty. The game itself is (luckily) seldom translated at all. Reviewers often complain if subtitles are completely missing, but English subtitles are usually considered sufficient. Foreign pre-recorded programmes are usually subtitled in Finnish (although foreign channels (e.g. BBC World) usually aren't).

Quote
Still, that is an impressive translation Novus. Obviously the people doing the translation are talented and capable.
Just in case someone misunderstood, I would like to point out that I am in no way related to the Finnish UQM translation project other than having downloaded their translation to see how they handled this sort of thing (quite well, as far as I can tell as a non-native speaker). I even had to google the idiom the pun hinged on to accurately translate it back to English. But yes, the translation is impressive.

As the FAQ says:
Quote
Teemme tätä käännöstä lähinnä huvin ja urheilun vuoksi, ja ainahan on teoreettisesti mahdollista että joku englantia heikommin ymmärtävä ilahtuu tästä.
I.e.: "We're doing this translation mostly for fun and sport, and it's always theoretically possible that someone with problems understanding English appreciates this.". I've been playing around with the idea of a Swedish translation, but:
  • I don't think anyone really needs or wants one; Luki's comment supports this.
  • I may be a passable technical writer, but dialogue is not something I have experience with.
  • Being a Finland-Swede, there is a non-negligible chance that my translation sounds weird to most Swedish speakers.
  • Recruiting translators could be hard work.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2006, 05:30:15 pm »

Quote
Aan Wapens! Aan Wapens! … wacht een minuut! HEBBEN geen wapens! AIEE!! MIJN WAPENS!! MIJN WAPENS!! DE WGO HEEFT MIJN WAPENS!! GESTOLEN! AIEEE!! DE DIEF VAN HET WAPEN!!! Har! Har! Har! … HAD nooit om het even welke wapens! Har! Har! Har!

i hope thats actually translated correctly  Grin
Am I missing something here (I don't really speak Dutch, but it's close enough to English and German for me to figure out what's going on), or is the "translated" joke language-independent (i.e. no pun involved)? If so, it could be a useful fall-back in case of punning difficulties.

The "translation" Kohr-Ah Death gave is a word-to-word translation, without regard to context or expressions.
I'll try to give an impression of how this reads to a Dutch person. (Yes, "minuut" in Dutch just means "minute", but there's no expression "wait a minute", so "wacht een minuut" will come across as "wait 60 seconds" would to an English speaking person.)

Quote
Aan Wapens! Aan Wapens! … wacht een minuut! HEBBEN geen wapens! AIEE!! MIJN WAPENS!! MIJN WAPENS!! DE WGO HEEFT MIJN WAPENS!! GESTOLEN! AIEEE!! DE DIEF VAN HET WAPEN!!! Har! Har! Har! … HAD nooit om het even welke wapens! Har! Har! Har!
On Weapons! On Weapons! ... wait 60 seconds! Have no weapons! AIEE!! My weapons!! My weapons!! The W.H.O. has my weapons!! Stolen! AIEEE!! The thief of the weapon!!! Har! Har! Har! ... Had never whichever weapons! Har! Har! Har!
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2006, 06:08:07 pm »

I always found it odd that someone wanted to do a finnish translation. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not criticizing the project. It just seems a tad... unnecessary.

 I mean german or spanish or (especially) french sure, all those people belonging to major languages who dub their television shows tend to have a weak grasp of foreign languages (Stereotyping YAY!. Not everyone. but a lot).

But finnish? There is more english spoken on TV in finland then actual finnish. I'd always assumed that anyone capable of using  a computer in Finland would also have a good enough grasp of the english language to enjoy this game.

It would be the same for Dutch in my experience. Except for the very young and the old who had never had anything to do with English and just watch Dutch gameshows on tv Tongue.
But I think the game would be fun to a 10 year old, and a translation would help there.
And you don't have to be capable of actually starting the game to play it. A parent or older sibling could start up the game.

Quote from: Novus
Hopefully, almost every language has at least one idiom involving violence that references a body part the Umgah don't have.
I haven't been able to come up with anything useful in Dutch that relates directly to violence. But the expression "de handen uit de mouwen steken" ("pull you hands out of your sleeves" meaning "get to work") would be usable, especially as an order.
So:
Quote
Te wapen! Handen uit de mouwen! ... wacht even! HEB geen handen!
AIEE!! MIJN HANDEN!! MIJN HANDEN!! WIE HEEFT MIJN HANDEN GESTOLEN!!! AIEEE!! Handen-dief!!!
Ha! Ha! Ha!... Nooit handen gehad! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Now it would imho be funny to add to that "nor any sleeves for that matter", but I guess that strays too far from the original.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2006, 11:06:57 pm »

In my experience, many French people have an actively hostile or at least indifferent attitude toward other languages, including English.

This was what I was saying in a polite manner. Wink

Quote
Just in case someone misunderstood, I would like to point out that I am in no way related to the Finnish UQM translation project other than having downloaded their translation to see how they handled this sort of thing (quite well, as far as I can tell as a non-native speaker).

Sorry if I gave the impression that this was the case, I do realise that you aren't a part of that project.

Quote
Teemme tätä käännöstä lähinnä huvin ja urheilun vuoksi, ja ainahan on teoreettisesti mahdollista että joku englantia heikommin ymmärtävä ilahtuu tästä.

Well, creating for the purpose of creating I can certainly understand. Maybe I should have just had a look at their FAQ instead of blathering pointlessly.

Quote
I've been playing around with the idea of a Swedish translation, but:
  • I don't think anyone really needs or wants one; Luki's comment supports this.
  • I may be a passable technical writer, but dialogue is not something I have experience with.
  • Being a Finland-Swede, there is a non-negligible chance that my translation sounds weird to most Swedish speakers.
  • Recruiting translators could be hard work.

  • Well, unless you just create it for the joy of creating like your finnish brethren.
  • Perhaps this could bring out a new, more emotional and cultural part of your writing talent?
  • Technically I think what you speak is defined as "Östsvenska" (Eastern Swedish) according to swedish linguists. It's just another swedish dialect, no more So even if it sounds weird to swedish-speakers, it is just as correct as a version made in "skånska" (weird dialect in southern sweden). Go cultural diversity?
  • Oh, I'm sure many swedish speakers such as Arne and erm.. some other people would be happy to devote countless hours to this project. I'd love to help, but unfortunately I don't speak the language.
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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2006, 12:30:46 pm »

Many French people have an indifferent-to-hostile attitude to most languages, not English. They have a fanatical hatred to English.

While in France I got better results from them using my native Afrikaans (a Dutch variant spoken in South Africa) or German than English. Actually, using English in France is tantamount to walking around with a sign stating 'Ignore me.'

Still, based on the reactions I got using German and Afrikaans, next time I go to France I am learning French first.

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Re: Subtitles in your own language, is it possible?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2006, 02:07:14 pm »

Many French people have an indifferent-to-hostile attitude to most languages, not English. They have a fanatical hatred to English.

While in France I got better results from them using my native Afrikaans (a Dutch variant spoken in South Africa) or German than English. Actually, using English in France is tantamount to walking around with a sign stating 'Ignore me.'

Still, based on the reactions I got using German and Afrikaans, next time I go to France I am learning French first.

Maar ek stem heeltemaal saam met hulle. Donnerse toeriste.

If that's what it's like there, I'd say f*!k em. Go somewhere where they actually like you or understand that you use English, not go into snobbery and crap like that.

Then again this could be an example of Parisian Prats, they're supposed to be the worst kind in all of France, the south are supposedly nicer and calmer.
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