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Author Topic: Why it'll never happen.  (Read 11148 times)
meep-eep
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2006, 07:33:55 pm »

Any game where you're stareing at the back of a spaceship will be, I argue, financially less successful that one where you're looking at humans or humanoid creatures at any given moment. So, no Halo and Half-life don't count. The attract is just greater. The few acceptions in my mind of truely financially successfull games (the sort of financial success that will convince Accolade to back another game) IMHO are:

Star Fox
X-Wing (series)
StarCraft

And that's it. The rest of your suggestions have people as their central figures.

I did mention RTS games, god sims, shmups, puzzle games, dance games, flight simulators and racing games. It is not hard to find examples of "truly financially successful" games in those genres that don't have people at the centre.
RTS: Command and Conquer series
God sims: Sim City series, Civilisation series
Puzzle games: Tetris, Puzzle Fighter series, Bust a Move series, Lemmings, Lumines
Dance games: Dance Dance Revolution (I don't actually know many specific games in this genre myself.
Flight Simulators: Microsoft Flight Simulator
Racing games: Wipeout series, Gran Turismo series

I don't know where you get the idea that games that don't show a human(oid) most of the time would be less successful. It doesn't make sense either; why would anyone care? Would they enjoy seeing those people? Because they're physically attractive, or cute?
Or is it that it would help them identify with the main character? (As if most successful games actually have a story)

Besides, game publishers aren't just after the exceptionally succesful games. Making a decent profit is good enough. Why do you think Activision had TFB making movie spinoffs?
That is not to say that a new Star Control couldn't be an exceptionally succesful game. Have you ever heard anyone say he didn't like SC2? I've only seen one case, right on this board, and months later the person in question came back to apologise after giving it another chance. Those who give it a chance, love it. Getting people to try it is a matter of marketing. And word of mouth goes a long way.
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2006, 03:59:39 am »

And I mentioned Asteroids and Wing Commander.  Heck, if we can include old games like Asteroids where your avatar is a space ship...
Space Invaders
Defender
Gradius
Thexder (a 3D Thexder [or Robotech/Macross] game would be awesome)
SubSpace (technically not a financial success, but not because the game was unpopular, if continuum is any measure)
F-Zero (a racing/space game)
Mechwarrior series (kinda like big, walking space ships)
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BlackSpathi
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2006, 04:40:55 pm »

ooh... subspace/continuum... I got hooked on this because it was so similar to SC melee only massive multiplayer. Still play it today...  Grin

Anyways, to continue the list:
Descent Freespace series
Homeworld series
Master of Orion series
Ascendency
Alpha Centauri
...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2006, 04:43:57 pm by BlackSpathi » Logged
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2006, 01:57:13 am »

Quote
ooh... subspace/continuum... I got hooked on this because it was so similar to SC melee only massive multiplayer. Still play it today... 


I played SubSpace for 4 years, since the earliest beta versions. I even played in AM and Pro league squads. I have continuum installed now but rarely play anymore. And yes, SS/Cont. was a financial failure in a sense. The game was more of an expiriment for Virgin's fledgling game company at the time.

The spin-offs (programmed by the SubSpace programmers), "Infantry" and "Cosmic Rift", under the Sony online label, don't seem to be a huge financial success either. Infantry is fairly popular, as for Cosmic Rift , it's difficult to find a populated server to play on. Sony has a subscription to their game servers and offer several games including these two.

Another popular top-down space shooter is (was?) "Silent Death". I played it alot until they sold the game to AOL and gave AOL subscribers exclusive rights.
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2006, 01:41:06 pm »

A random thought (brainfart): Maybe lowering expectations would help? I think if StarControl was made into a huge deal for all platforms next-gen yadda yadda, people would expect huge features that maybe wouldn't be very Star Control-ish, such as 3D space mixed with FPS(or shouldercam) for pilot adventures etc. This type of game might appeal to people not familiar with SC if the game is good and most importantly looks good.

The other route would be to appeal to the old fans. If it was an XBLA or PC sneak release thing like Geometry Wars or whatever people might put up with 2D topdown and development costs wouldn't be monumental. Pre release hype could be dangerous to such a title though.

But like I've said earlier, my main concern is that a game is made that isn't faithful to the SC universe. For me, faithfulness is far more important than what type of game it is. Also, if I had to choose between a sequel with good gameplay but horrible design faithfulness, and a sequel with mediocre gameplay but good design faithfulness, I'd go for the latter. Atleast it wouldn't ruin the universe for me. There's nothing that gets to me like the Syreen face, Tektites becoming generic spiders, etc. I suppose I see things from a special PoV though, being a concept artist / illustrator.

After having seen my favourite games destroyed (both gameplay and design faithfulness-wise), I can't help to feel great unease.



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Anthony
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2006, 01:49:29 pm »

Well, since they are the original creators of Star Control, we won't have to worry about it not being faithful.  They won't just suddenly go "Let's make cool 3D ships, and FPS stuff, because it's cool!"  They're gonna think it over, and add things that make sense.  Personally, I don't really care whether or not it is 2D or 3D; just as long as the gameplay is good, and that there's a nice story in it too. 

Star Control II has been named by Gamespot as one of the greatest games of all time, and TFB knows that!  Whatever is done with this new Star Control game, they know what they're doing.  With all the support from fans like us, they can't forget about the magic of Star Control II.

One of the many things I like about Star Control is the ships;  I just hope they use all 25 ships from Star Control II, and then add some more!  That would be nice, but I don't want to tell them how to do their own jobs.  We just have to keep telling them that Star Control is the only answer!
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2006, 10:37:37 pm »


I also played Subspace/Continuum a bit in college and shortly after. When I started using/developing for Linux I left it
behind. Recently, with Wine development improving, I've been able to play Contiuum again on my Linux box. Yea!
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2006, 12:44:34 am »

A random thought (brainfart): Maybe lowering expectations would help? I think if StarControl was made into a huge deal for all platforms next-gen yadda yadda, people would expect huge features that maybe wouldn't be very Star Control-ish, such as 3D space mixed with FPS(or shouldercam) for pilot adventures etc. This type of game might appeal to people not familiar with SC if the game is good and most importantly looks good.

Agreed. Why not get the quake kiddies on board and sell more copies? AS long as the story remains true. SC canon should be priority #1 imo. Personally I lean toward a 2D PC title but am not opposed to appealing to a broader audience and going 3D.,multi platform etc..

I also believe SC3 had a higher learning curve than it's sequals and keeping a new SCsimple to operate is a must.
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2006, 08:17:21 pm »

I think that releasing the game in Xbox Live! is probably the best option we have.

The development costs for this kind of game are not huge (as opposed to current 3d games), people don't mind it being 2d, and is sells like hot cakes.

And this way, we could guarantee that the universe wouldn't be spoiled by some 3D game made to please the masses...
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2006, 11:14:43 pm »

I think SC2 on XBLA would be awesome. That would be a great way to drum up support for the franchise.

Though in response to the original poster about there not being many fan-made sequels -- worry not! I'm still working away on my SC2-inspired top-down shooter. My plan is to make its single-player and multiplayer modes very true to the SC style. In fact, the multiplayer mode is basically done. We're mostly just doing gameplay tweaks, content, and debug now.

Plus, I've just finished changing the code to make it simple and fast to mod. My goal is eventually to write a tutorial on how to mod it, using an SC theme as an example. In that sense, there could be a fan-made SC sequel within the next 6 months or so.
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2006, 07:57:34 pm »

Oh man I just had the craziest idea.  It's so awesome you're gonna be... seriously baffled! What if... a gate opens between the SF and SC universes and Spemin meets Umgah, G'Nunk - Thraddash, Dweenle - Utwig, Natracch - ZFP!  OMG, nuts! Crazy in the cocunut! What-a brawl!

Doesn't Wii has a download service too?
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2006, 11:41:43 pm »

Yes, the Wii can download games... such as the classic games, and it would be cool if Star Control II was downloadable for it; I haven't tried the online services on my Wii, since I don't have a wireless router or a ethernet adaptor for it.  Definitely would be a great step to getting Star Control to the public...

And it would motivate me more to get that router for my Wii
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2006, 05:53:51 am »

Quote
Oh man I just had the craziest idea.  It's so awesome you're gonna be... seriously baffled! What if... a gate opens between the SF and SC universes and Spemin meets Umgah, G'Nunk - Thraddash, Dweenle - Utwig, Natracch - ZFP!  OMG, nuts! Crazy in the cocunut! What-a brawl!

Already thought of it. Tongue
I was going to call it "The Spemin Masters" (a phrase from SF2's manual.) Smiley
Just don't attack a Veloxi Warship with a Vux Intruder, you might lose track of which one is which. Huh

It would be more fun than the classic Starcraft Vs. Halo fusion.

Might be fun to work both universes into your game (though you might have to look into the IP issues.)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 06:09:46 am by Deus_Siddis » Logged
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2006, 12:08:57 pm »

IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!!! I just came back from a meeting over at EA who just purchased all the licences! Here's my notes from the brainstorming meeting!

---

The player will enter the role of SLADE, a tough mercenary out for revenge! Later the player can unlock Xeara, A stealthy sexy babe, and Grawth, a buff Klingon-like alien with a serious attitude that needs to be kept in check (through scripted dialog).

I was thinking we could have slot in system the ships, each ship has 5 slots, in which you can put equipment that unlocks during the progress of the game. We'll call this Equipment Slot-in System, or ESS for short! The new equipment will have to unlock slowly in a very linear fashion, too many choices will confuse the player.

When the player shoots down hordes of enemy ships, they will just disappear in a spectacular explosion, leaving containers that blink for 10 seconds, so the player will have to be quick to pick them up! The containers translates into money and it would be cool if the player had to shoot down hordes of enemy ships just to buy a new laser.

The GUI will feature cool techy fat borders around everything, and if you click a button there could be a WRREEEeee sound and a dialog box slowly slides into positions and locks with a CLACHUNK! Then the buttons appear, PIUUPP PIUUPP PIUUPP! Let's put Kenny on this, he made our Flash site and has experience of making cool DVD menus aswell.

As the player lands on a planet, there's only one location to visit, and since we want to tell a story, we're thinking of a heavily scripted event engine, it will make sure that the player doesn't break the storyline sequence. Well call this an innovative Sandbox Feedback Response System (SFRS) in the media though! Third person shooter along with a gamepad is the obvious choice as it enables us to show the back of the character, but since aiming or moving doesn't really work with these controls, we'll use a Z-target aim button. You hold it and the character will automatically shoot at the enemy with his bulky machinegun. Since the player can't really move well and will just jerk against walls, we'll use a Snap to Wall Cover System (StWCS).

As for the original designs, let's just change them into something cool, I was thinking Balrogs and Cavetroll stuff, maybe some cool stuff with teeth and these tatoos over the eyes. The whole thing could have a tribal feel! We could put Bob's nephew on this, he likes to draw. Did anyone play the original game by the way?
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meep-eep
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Re: Why it'll never happen.
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2006, 03:12:11 pm »

I'm missing the ninjas and mechas.
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“When Juffo-Wup is complete
when at last there is no Void, no Non
when the Creators return
then we can finally rest.”
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