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Author Topic: Best value ships  (Read 11624 times)
Cedric6014
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2007, 11:51:59 pm »

Thought I'd reopen this thread for the fun of it.

Let's say hypothetiically that, for the purposes of netplay, costs of ships could be readjusted to better reflect their actual value in Supermelee.

I thought the following adjustments might be appropriate. what do you think?


                    Old        New     Change
Ur-Quan         30         28         -2
Chmmr          30         30           0
Kohr-Ah         30         32          2
Chenjesu       28         27          -1
Orz               23         23           0
Yehat            23         22          -1
Utwig             22         24          2
Mycon           21         20          -1
Pkunk           20         19          -1
Mmrnhrm       19         19           0
Melnorme      18         19           1
Spathi           18         17          -1
Druuge          17         17           0
Slylandro       17         16          -1
Supox           16         16           0
Arilou            16         15          -1
Androsynth    15         18           3
Syreen          13         13           0
VUX              12         13           1
Earthling        11         13           2
Ilwrath           10           8          -2
Thraddash     10         10           0
Umgah            7          5          -2
Zoq-Fot-Pik     6           7           1
Shofixti           5           6           1
TOTAL       436        436           0


This is not based on any research or experimentation whatsoever!

« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 12:21:19 am by Cedric6014 » Logged

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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2007, 12:02:05 am »

(you actually got the Yehat, Earthling, VUX cost wrong)

                  Old        New     Change
Ur-Quan         30         26         -4
Chmmr          30         30           0
Kohr-Ah         30         30          0
Chenjesu       28         25          -3
Orz               23         23           0
Yehat            23         21          -2
Utwig             22         22          0
Mycon           21         19          -2
Pkunk           20         19          -1
Mmrnhrm       19         20           +1
Melnorme      18         18           0
Spathi           18         18          0
Druuge          17         17           0
Slylandro       17         17          0
Supox           16         14           -2
Arilou            16         16          0
Androsynth    15         18           +3
Syreen          13         13           0
Earthling        11         11           0
VUX              12         12           0
Ilwrath           10           6          -4
Thraddash     10         666          +656
Umgah            7          7          0
Zoq-Fot-Pik     6           6           0
Shofixti           5           5           0
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Cedric6014
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2007, 12:14:53 am »

Oh yeah, woops. I have adjusted my  values accordingly.
whats with the thraddash?

I thought I'd qualify my 'findings' by saying that they are based on what ships seem to be the most popular in net melee amongst some of the better players
« Last Edit: April 04, 2007, 12:29:35 am by Cedric6014 » Logged

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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2007, 02:36:45 pm »

Yeah, Elvish, tell us the secret behind the Thraddash!
(Ah, I know, it's nimble and fast and it has a big range. And you can't chase it)

But may I ask how you can beat a Chmmr with the 'Dash? From what I recall, the Mark VI Blaster is destroyed by the ZapSats' Point Defense.
Also, Earthlings are damn good vs Torches.
With Umgah, it's a stalemate. Har! Har! Har!
If the opposing Druuge has a very, very good aim, also, it can kill you - if you are not better.
Not to mention that a VERY, VERY, VERY lucky Arilou may materialize just where he can strike a killing blow.
Perfect Pkunk Pilots May Kill Torches, Perhaps Rather Well, also.
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Elvish Pillager
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2007, 10:11:26 pm »

whats with the thraddash?
Hate costing. It's totally useless, but it's so annoying when anyone tries to play it, so I made it impossible to fly one given any sane point limit.
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2007, 10:36:29 pm »

whats with the thraddash?
Hate costing. It's totally useless

How so? The purpose of this list was to come to a situation where in netplay, each ship was as favoured by players as each other. I get bored with fighting androsynths and utwogs all the time - and I'd love to use a Mycon - except their not worth the points.
In any case, you must be a costing guru by now after all the work with your mod
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2007, 12:45:28 pm »

Except with the Thraddash. That's just a personal dislike. I love them, though I prefer Androsynth.
I mean, flying them is not difficult, and it's fun.
Fighting them, on the other hand, can be REALLY unnerving since many tend to think that you really HAVE to fly through their afterburner flames. But you can kill them easily, as I said.
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2007, 01:01:32 pm »

Orz is my favourite ship and I also think it is one of the best.
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2007, 01:29:03 pm »

Let's see how good each ship is against each ship.
I'll start with VUX. -2 means Total Loss. -1 means Loss with Several Casualties Inflicted Upon the Opponent. 0 means equal match.
+1 means Win With Crumpled Crew. +2 means Total Victory Through the Benevolent Will of the Ultron.

VUX:
Ur-Quan -2
Chmmr -1
Kohr-Ah -2
Chenjesu -2
Orz -2
Yehat -0.5
Utwig -1
Mycon -2
Pkunk +1.5
Mmrnmhrm -2
Melnorme -1
Spathi -2
Druuge -1
Slylandro +2
Supox -2
Arilou +2
Androsynth -1
Syreen -2
Earthling +0.5
VUX 0
Ilwrath 0
Thraddash -1
Umgah +1
Zoq-Fot-Pik -2
Shofixti -1

If we add all these, we get -21.5;
We calculate this for all ships and add 5 and the opposite of the smallest value to all values
(so if the lowest value is -27, we add 32 to everything)
and we get the new costs.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 02:54:33 pm by Valaggar » Logged
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2007, 01:53:22 pm »

For Ilwrath (the lowest value ship.
Also, DON'T PLAY Ilwrath!!! It's boring to play against!!!):
Ilwrath:
Ur-Quan -2
Chmmr -2
Kohr-Ah -2
Chenjesu -2
Orz -2
Yehat -2
Utwig -2
Mycon +0.5
Pkunk 0
Mmrnmhrm 0
Melnorme -2
Spathi -1
Druuge -1
Slylandro +1
Supox -2
Arilou 0
Androsynth +0.5
Syreen -2
Earthling +1
VUX 0
Ilwrath 0
Thraddash 0
Umgah +0.5
Zoq-Fot-Pik -2
Shofixti -2

Sum is -22.5
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 09:57:54 am by Valaggar » Logged
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2007, 02:41:17 pm »

I have to disagree on some points with VUX.
First: limpets carry through the shield, and one limpet is enough to make Yehat's speed slow enough to suffer total limpeting. If its weapons aren't already fixed on the VUX, it is doomed if the VUX won't make a mistake.
Second: same with Utwig, although it is harder for the VUX to attack when the Utwig is limpeted.
Third: applies to both shield-ships. Even if the VUX does not succeed in killing them, they will be left weakened for the next match if they get limpeted.
And fourth: against Earthling, it's all about the first moments. If the Earthling escapes = doomed VUX. The worst scenario is if the VUX already is on the battlefield. Gravity whips are its only hope to deliver some damage.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 02:43:14 pm by Lurker » Logged

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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2007, 02:54:07 pm »

Umgah:
Ur-Quan -2
Chmmr -2
Kohr-Ah -2
Chenjesu -2
Orz -2
Yehat -2
Utwig -2
Mycon -2
Pkunk 0
Mmrnmhrm -2
Melnorme -2
Spathi -2
Druuge -2
Slylandro -1
Supox -1
Arilou -0.5
Androsynth -2
Syreen -2
Earthling -1
VUX 0
Ilwrath -0.5
Zoq-Fot-Pik -2
Shofixti 0

So -32.
Argh! The lowest value ship!
Umgah = 2
VUX = 11.5
Ilwrath = DON'T CHOOSE!!!

As to the VUX, modifications made - the Yehat is now -0.5 and the Earthling is +0.5; the Utwig is +1.
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2007, 04:42:52 pm »

I think equally weighting the opponents is a very silly way to determine costs - certain matchups are far more likely than others.
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2007, 05:07:49 pm »

Besides, I don't know where you get those values from. Netplay? Awesome AI? Neither seems to apply.

I do have to agree that the Ilwrath, as it is currently, is the worst ship. Primarily because it's instantly at the disadvantage of being forced to chase nearly every ship in the game because of its design. Now, if the opponent couldn't tell where it was when cloaked, that would be another story.
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Re: Best value ships
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2007, 06:26:20 pm »

Quote from: Draxas
I think equally weighting the opponents is a very silly way to determine costs - certain matchups are far more likely than others.
Because players prefer certain ships? Nope, this shouldn't be taken into account.

Quote from: Draxas
Besides, I don't know where you get those values from. Netplay? Awesome AI? Neither seems to apply.
Some are evident, some are from hotseat, some (where it's possible) are deduced in this way: I fight the Awesome AI, then we switch sides.
In fact, can you show me exactly where the values are flawed?

Quote from: Draxas
I do have to agree that the Ilwrath, as it is currently, is the worst ship. Primarily because it's instantly at the disadvantage of being forced to chase nearly every ship in the game because of its design. Now, if the opponent couldn't tell where it was when cloaked, that would be another story.
In fact, the Umgah turned out to be the lowest value ship.
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