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Topic: Best value ships (Read 12316 times)
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Valaggar
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Ah... I've got your point. But no, there still would be many situations when the cheaper ship will win - some ships are better against certain ships than the others. In fact, this thing will even be boosted by a cost balancing. And it's normal that the ship that can counter the most adversaries is given the most points - it's because it's worth several ships.
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Valaggar
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Ur-Quan: Ur-Quan 0 Chmmr 0 Kohr-Ah 0 Chenjesu 0 Orz -2 Yehat +1 Utwig -1.5 Mycon +1 Pkunk -0.5 Mmrnmhrm -1 Melnorme +1 Spathi -2 Druuge +1 Slylandro +1.5 Supox -2 Arilou +1 Androsynth +1.5 Syreen +1.5 Earthling -1.5 VUX +0.5 Ilwrath +2 Zoq-Fot-Pik 0 Shofixti -1
Sum is +0.5, cost is 34.5 VUX: 11.5 Umgah: 2 Ur-Quan: 34.5 Ilwrath: 11.5
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 09:58:15 am by Valaggar »
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Elvish Pillager
Enlightened
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Posts: 625
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I do have to agree that the Ilwrath, as it is currently, is the worst ship. Thraddash.
Ilwrath are extremely good at gravity whipping, have pretty high crew, good damage once they get close, and some cool features: relativistic shots, cloaking, and instant turning when they uncloak. They have a guaranteed win against Earthlings, and can be effective against (in approximate decreasing order of effectiveness) Arilou, Shofixti, Pkunk, Supox, Syreen, Mmrnmhrm, Orz, and Mycon.
Except for their cost, I'd place Ilwrath as more useful than at least the really low-cost ships (Shofixti, Zoq-fot...)
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My team of four Androsynth and three Chmmr is the most unfair team ever! My mod
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Cedric6014
Enlightened
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Gender:
Posts: 701
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Well, I think i'm pretty spot on with my new values. If the net effect would be that people are as likely to pick an urquan as a kohr ah or a yehat as an orz then its worked. I'd pick a mycon if it were slightly cheaper. I might think twice about picking a more expenive androsythn, although i wonder of an extra 3 points is enough even?
Interestingly, since there has been a great deal of high-quality net-play since the thread was originally posted, I think some values have been revised. I dont think we consider the Utwig to be the supreme ship some thought it was. Also its is now evident that the kohr-ah pawns all.
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Valaggar
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They have a guaranteed win against Earthlings, and can be effective against (in approximate decreasing order of effectiveness) Arilou, Shofixti, Pkunk, Supox, Syreen, Mmrnmhrm, Orz, and Mycon. Against Arilou and Mmrnmhrm, yes - cost revised. Against Pkunk and Mycon, it was already mentioned. Shofixti, Supox, Syreen and Orz may kill it from a distance. Earthlings may do this also.
Ah - Mmrnmhrm may kill Ilwrath easily in Y-Form. But let's say that it is too long a battle.
Ah - also, Ilwrath is good against Probes.
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 09:58:43 am by Valaggar »
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Valaggar
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Slylandro:
Ur-Quan -1 Chmmr -2 Kohr-Ah -1.5 Chenjesu -1.5 Orz +1 Yehat -0.5 Utwig -1 Mycon +2 Pkunk 0 Mmrnmhrm -2 Melnorme +1.5 Spathi 0 Druuge -1 Slylandro 0 Supox +1.5 Arilou +2 Androsynth +1 Syreen +1 Earthling +1 VUX +0.5 Ilwrath -1 Zoq-Fot-Pik +1 Shofixti 0 Umgah 0 Thraddash +2
Sum is 3, value is 37.
Oops, looks like I skipped Umgah and Thraddash for Ur-Quan and Umgah. Corrected: Umgah 4 Ilwrath 11.5 Ur-Quan 34.5 VUX 11.5 Slylandro 37 WOW, now there won't be that many Slylandro chasing you in HS after this major cost revamping...
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Valaggar
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Earthling: Ur-Quan +1.5 Chmmr -2 Kohr-Ah -2 Chenjesu -1 Orz -2 Yehat -2 Utwig -2 Mycon -2 Pkunk -1.5 Mmrnmhrm -1 Melnorme -2 Spathi -1 Druuge +0.5 Slylandro -1 Supox -1.5 Arilou +0.5 Androsynth -2 Syreen +0.5 Earthling 0 VUX 0 Ilwrath -1 Zoq-Fot-Pik 0 Shofixti 0 Umgah +2 Thraddash +2
Sum is -17, value is 17.
Umgah 4 Ilwrath 11.5 Ur-Quan 34.5 VUX 11.5 Slylandro 37 Earthling 17
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Valaggar
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Shofixti: Ur-Quan -1.5 Chmmr -1 Kohr-Ah -1.5 Chenjesu -1 Orz -2 Yehat -0.5 Utwig -1.5 Mycon +2 Pkunk -1 Mmrnmhrm -0.5 Melnorme -0.5 Spathi -1 Druuge -0.5 Slylandro 0 Supox -0.5 Arilou 0 Androsynth -1 Syreen -0.5 Earthling 0 VUX +2 Ilwrath +2 Zoq-Fot-Pik -1 Shofixti 0 Umgah 0 Thraddash +1
Sum is -8.5, new cost is 25.5; but this high price would make it unlikely for someone to wish to sacrifice it, so we'll half it to 12.
Umgah 4 Ilwrath 11.5 Ur-Quan 34.5 VUX 11.5 Slylandro 37 Earthling 17 Shofixti 12
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Valaggar
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Nope... I figured out a better method to avoid over/underpricing, such as what happened with the Scout: Add +1 for each ship that <current> can beat (positive value) Add -1 for each ship that <current> can't beat (negative value)
Stay tuned for the result of the calculations
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Valaggar
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Aha! New values follow: (now I had to add 51 to every value, due to the Umgah having a score of -49)
VUX 16.5 Ilwrath 19.5 Umgah 2 Ur-Quan 53.5 Slylandro 56 Earthling 25 Shofixti 30.5 -> 15
Nope, this doesn't solve the Shofixti problem. It seems that I simply got the values of Shofixti vs various wrong. I've corrected it by halfing the price)
Anyway, what do you think? Should we use this second algorithm (add +1/-1)? I thought that there should be a bigger difference between losing and reducing the enemy crew to zero and losing and killing the enemy, so I come with this thing. In fact, I think I'll keep it. Just let me correct the Shofixti.
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 03:19:18 pm by Valaggar »
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Valaggar
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Kohr-Ah: Ur-Quan 0 Chmmr 0 Kohr-Ah 0 Chenjesu -1.5 Orz +0.5 Yehat -1 Utwig -1 Mycon +1 Pkunk +1.5 Mmrnmhrm +2 Melnorme -1.5 Spathi -1.5 Druuge +2 Slylandro +1.5 Supox -1.5 Arilou +2 Androsynth 0 Syreen +1 Earthling +2 VUX +1.5 Ilwrath +2 Zoq-Fot-Pik +1 Shofixti +1.5 Umgah +2 Thraddash +2
Sum is +25.5, value is 76.5.
VUX 16.5 Ilwrath 19.5 Umgah 2 Ur-Quan 53.5 Slylandro 56 Earthling 25 Shofixti 15 Kohr-Ah 76.5
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Valaggar
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Thraddash: Ur-Quan -1 Chmmr -2 Kohr-Ah -2 Chenjesu -2 Orz -1.5 Yehat -2 Utwig -2 Mycon -2 Pkunk -1.5 Mmrnmhrm -1.5 Melnorme -2 Spathi -2 Druuge -1 Slylandro -2 Supox -2 Arilou -2 Androsynth +1.5 Syreen -1.5 Earthling -2 VUX +1 Ilwrath 0 Zoq-Fot-Pik -2 Shofixti -1 Umgah -2 Thraddash 0
Sum is -53.5 - THE LOWEST VALUE SHIP! Elvish was right... So, from now on, we add +55 to everything instead of +51:
VUX 20.5 Ilwrath 23.5 Umgah 6 Ur-Quan 57.5 Slylandro 60 Earthling 29 Shofixti 17 Kohr-Ah 80.5 Thraddash 1.5
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Valaggar
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Utwig: Ur-Quan +1.5 Chmmr -1 Kohr-Ah +1 Chenjesu 0 Orz -1.5 Yehat +0.5 Utwig 0 Mycon +2 Pkunk 0 Mmrnmhrm -2 Melnorme -1.5 Spathi +1.5 Druuge -1.5 Slylandro +1 Supox 0 Arilou +2 Androsynth +1.5 Syreen +2 Earthling +2 VUX +1 Ilwrath +2 Zoq-Fot-Pik +1 Shofixti +1.5 Umgah +2 Thraddash +2
Sum is +6, value is 61.
VUX 20.5 Ilwrath 23.5 Umgah 6 Ur-Quan 57.5 Slylandro 60 Earthling 29 Shofixti 17 Kohr-Ah 80.5 Thraddash 1.5 Utwig 61
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