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Author Topic: Breaking the Kohr-Ah  (Read 9352 times)
Shiver
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Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« on: January 03, 2007, 01:07:25 pm »

Okay for real, is there any half-way decent counter to Kohr-Ah in player vs player at all? The 30-point ships stand roughly toe-to-toe against each other, but otherwise nothing seems to work consistently against Kohr-Ah. This is my greatest source of frustration in PVP because the Chmmr and Kzer-Za on the other hand can be toppled by clever use of some of the lower scoring ships. So let me put it this way. You're playing PVP against someone pretty good at the game and they have a Kohr-Ah ship out. What ship do you bring out and how do you use it?

If you're only familiar with the computer-controlled Marauder, please don't give me information I already know.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 01:36:17 pm »

You can use the Utwig Jugger's shields to defend against their blades; I find that it works with human players too, but the other player will try to psych you out with your shields, so be careful.

The Androsynth Guardian can fire a first wave of bubbles, and if the Marauder uses its FRIED, then fire a second wave of bubbles immediately.

With the Supox Blade, you could fire between spaces between the blades to take down the Marauder, but you have to dodge the blades by flying backwards, and sometimes turning around completely.

Every time I fight it, I always use more than 1 ship just to destroy it...
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 04:21:31 pm »

I find that, much like the computer (though to a lesser extent), human Marauder captains are vulnerable to a skilled Eluder pilot. Be prepared for a LONG fight, though, since they tend to be smarter about effective defense using blades/FRIED; you're going to be whittling them down for a long while. However, the fact still remains that the combination of the Eluder's agility and decently ranged tracking weaponry makes it very hard to pin down with the Marauder's weapons.

Incidentally, if you're not averse to attrition, the X-Form can do a passable job against the Marauder as well. You're just going to have to keep distance, dodge around blades using the laser form, and peck it to death as best as you can with your missiles. This tends to be a much more intense fight than in the Eluder, because you really need a lot of skill to avoid crashing into stray blades constantly.

As with many other ships with high-damage weaponry, the direct approach with a Jugger is effective. As mentioned above, though, be wary of psych-out tactics; an unshielded Jugger is just a big fat target against a Marauder.

Of course, I haven't been able to try out netplay yet, and my last human opponent was probably about 10 years ago, so my tactics may be sketchy. These always did work reasonably well against my friends, though.

Good luck!
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 11:43:49 pm »

Utwig, Yehat and Eluder are all pretty good agsint the Korh-ah. Not perfect,
but you stand a decent chance. With the Utwig you can pretty much come straight
on. The Yehat is a bit tricker. Try to get in close and use the ship's
quick turning to stay out of th line of fire. The Eluder is okay, if you
can dodge while maintaining mid-range. As stated before, it can
be a long fight, but your odds are better than with other 30 point ships.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2007, 12:38:23 am »

I feel as though the advice I've received so far is pretty mediocre. Spathi is NOT better than a 30 point ship against Kohr-Ah. I have played both sides of Spathi vs Kohr-Ah extensively and the Spathi is not all that difficult to kill simply because it's such a wide target. The only ship I've seen win against the Kohr-Ah more often than it loses is the Chmmr Avatar (I'd give it roughly 60/40 odds), and that ship is *gimped* after the fight is over thanks to the Kohr-Ah's plasma wave.

Yehat and Utwig seem like they should be able to do the job. I might just have to practice them a lot more.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2007, 01:58:44 am »

I agree -- the Eluder is only good against the Marauder when it is computer-controlled.  A skilled hunam pilot would never do any of the things that gives an Eluder the advantage it has, e.g., endless chasing in straight lines.

Ships with shields (Yehat, Utwig) tend to perform well against the Marauder due to its relatively slow firing rate.  But against hunam opponents, going nose-to-nose and duking it out doesn't work as well as it does against the computer, because hunam players won't necessarily fire as soon as their batteries have adequate charge, so your Jugger might run out of shields completely, or your Terminator might get pegged during "the gaps".  But even if you lose, you'll likely have done mega-damage against the Marauder, unless you suffer a stroke mid-fight.

I tend to like the Supox Blade due to its speed, and ability to stay between the Marauder's firing angles and still get its licks in -- however their small crews and low-damage weapon make victory anything from assured, and you need quite a bit of practice to fly the damn thing correctly.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 02:00:46 am by 0xDEC0DE » Logged

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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 05:05:28 am »

I'm not really sure there's a good "lock" ship against the Kohr-Ah.  I notice usually that skills beat that ship more than any kind of intrinsic advantage a ship has.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 09:49:53 am »

At 30 points, you can blow up 6 Shofixti Scouts on it and still consider it a tie. And if you do it right, you only need 4.
You can also sacrifice an Intruder and land a few gumballs, making the next battle easier.
I expect you'll get a lot more death for your money that way than by going in with Eluders, Terminators or Blades.

Also, Dreadnought plasma blasts destroys buzzsaws, and they can be fired a lot faster.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 05:22:27 pm »

Okay, I've played this match up extensively, so I have a fair bit to contribute here.

The answer to beat the kohr-ah depends strictly on your skill level and style.  I'll list them here and address the other strats people have listed already:

Chmrr - Its a tough fight, but in my opinion, a skilled marauder can still beat a Chmrr, its very hard to keep the marauder in front of you, and as a Chmrr, you lose out at the begining of every clash due to FRIED.   So your goal is to eat a FRIED to the face, then make it up by keeping him in front of you and blasting away.  Problem is the marauder is too manouverable, and he will try to get into multiple passes across your hull.  Effectiveness (2/5)

Spathi - Its too easy for a Marauder to aim where you are going to be, and keep you just out of range.  If the Spathi ever slips in, the marauder can always use FRIED to negate the damage.  Effectiveness (1/5)

Yehat - A formidable opponent to the Marauder, but due to low crew and energy, its fairly easy to slip up.  Effectiveness (3/5)

Utwig - Simply the best elite way to destroy a Marauder, it is decently possible to perfect the Marauder if you are very good at the shields.  I cant do very well however, as my utwig sheilding sort of sucks, but my friend owns with this ship, and he will own my marauder every time.  Requires alot of skill, but by far the most effective strat.  Effectiveness (5/5)

Earthling - Cant believe this little guy hasnt been mentioned yet.  By far the easiest way to destroy a Marauder.  I can take out a marauder with 1 or 2 of these ships fairly easily.  The strat goes like this:   Your main focus is keeping distance from the marauder.  It is a bit faster than you, but not by much.  When at distance, fire a missile.  Fire the second missile slightly after the cooldown permits, because if you don't, its possible for him to take down two missiles with one FRIED.   Fire the third missile ASAP.   The marauder will do one of three things 1)  Use FRIED to defend the missile barages.   However, on a full fuel tank, you can fire 3 missiles faster than he can shoot 3 FRIEDs, so he will take one gauranteed hit.  2)  He will attempt to shoot down the missiles with blades:  simply alternate your fire from the left and the right, making curved shots which are very hard to pick off  3)  He will try to turn around and come in the opposite direction.  In this case, stop firing for a monent and focus on your direction:  the main goal is to keep at maximum distance.  Once accellerated, begin the process again.    Eventually, the marauder will begin to close the gap, just keep firing using differnt angles of your shots, but now, begin to time your shots to fire between his shots, so as few as possible get picked off.  Once you are almost in critical range, accelerate forwards bearing 45 degrees across him.  If you did it right, he will zoom past you, getting off maybe a blade or two or perhaps a couple fried hits.  Now you will be separated again, and be able to fire away again.  Also, while at range, try to keep more fuel for emergencies rather than blasting just when it is available, as the missiles can be used for defense.  Shooting out two missiles when a blade is appealingly going to hit you will force the marauder to relinquish the shot to make defensive maneuvers.  The only problem with this strat is sometimes getting a random start where you are very close to the marauder.  Effectiveness (5/5)

Androsynth - Change into blazer form and charge the marauder.  It should be very simple to avoid incoming blades.  Just before you are about to hit the marauder, do a 180, avoiding his FRIED shot.  Take a quick look at his fuel, if he has a half tank, repeat the process, if he has less, go in for the kill.   I have only rarely been able to take out a full marauder with an Androsynth, but I can consistently take out a large amount of crew.  Requires a decent amount of practice.   Effectiveness (2/5)

Phunk/Skiff/Zoq - Same as above, but harder to pull off.  Effectiveness (1.5/5)

Chenjesu - This ship can be used to take out noobie marauders, but versus competent marauders, it just cant hold up.  The crystals blast right through the blades, but a skilled marauder will begin moving perpendicular to you, which will cause you to move the same way, and you will end up slowly crashing into blades with time, because, at range, the marauder can use his FRIED to defend from any crystal which hits him, and at high speeds, its too hard to land repeated shots such that he has no fuel to defend.  The chenjesu is too slow to get in close/midrange , which is where it can own the marauder.  Effectivness (1/5)

Mmrnmhrm - you will end up trying to circle the marauder while tossing out missiles, but you turn too damned slow to avoid the blades while dealing any real damage.  Effectiveness (0.5/5)

Shofixti - It is possible to just fly in an blast him even after taking a FRIED to the face.  Only problem with this strat is you are stuck to mediocrity.  There is no improvements you can make and you will more than likely end up just equating the supply cost to destroy the marauder, nothing better.  Effectiveness (2/5)

Orz - You are a fast maneuverable ship, and Ive seen some people play impressively with it.  The idea is that you toss out an intruder, get him to used fried, and then just mass out a whole bunch more intruders which will hopefully break through.  This is typically done near a planet, as the intruders have inertia.  6 of these guys in a marauder can potentially destroy it.   Problem is that a marauder playing a defensive style focusing on running away and staying away from the planet can take out the intruders fairly easily due to the large size of the blades.  Ive never seen anyone consistently win this battle though.  Effectiveness (2.5/5)

Those are the best strats that I've done/seen.  I would recommend trying out the earthling, as it is IMO the easiest way to get a supply advantage vs the marauder.  The Utwig is the best strat if you can get really good with the shield, only recommended for skilled pilots.  Wow long post.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 06:43:24 pm »

Has anyone tried the melnorme?  I can't remember if it's projectiles can go through blades, but I'm assuming 2 full charges would decimate if not kill the kohr-ah, and you could neutralize his fire abilty as well.

I'd also like to throw the slylandro out there.  I'll have to do testing, but I consider it one of my better ships, and it's got speed to out maneuver the kohr-ah, if it avoids the fire.  I'd think one good barrage of the lazer would severly hurt it.

-kwamp
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 08:29:44 pm »

Melnorme is interesting actually.  The idea is that you have to use your Red Charge as a shield to block incoming blades, and Shoot your special once you are in range to avoid the FRIED, as the Korh-Ah can use his fried to block even the Red Charge.  I can see potential, but I havent experimented enough with it.   As for the probe, I think it falls under the same category as a Phunk, good idea, but just too hard to pull off, no room for error.  Its slow firing main weapon leaves it too open to FRIED.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 08:58:18 pm »

The Earthling Cruiser is probably the best cheap anti-Ah ship. Another vessel I like to go against them with every now and then, even if it isn't very cost-effective, is the Chenjesu Broodhome -- you can just use your superior main gun to pound the Marauder into submission.

- Bob
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 09:09:53 pm »

In PvP, I've found the Earthing Crusier can be really effective, as long as you stay veeery far away-if you get within F.R.I.E.Ding range, you're dead.

The Spathi (and to a lesser extent, Pkunk) work pretty well too, if you have the pacience to use them.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 09:36:56 pm »

While the cruiser can be effective at long range, it's hard to dodge and stay at a distance. I've
tried using the Melnorm and I can't say it's all that effective (in my experience). The ship is
fairly vunerable, especially early on in the fight.
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Re: Breaking the Kohr-Ah
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2007, 02:07:43 am »

I'm sorry but you guys are going to have to withdraw that whole thing about the Earthling Cruiser. I played a practice match with Squisher (who does a good job of living up to his name most of the time) and despite the disparity in skill between us, I didn't have too much trouble trouncing his Cruisers as Kohr-Ah. One thing that hurts his proposed strategy is that Kohr-Ah doesn't have to use it's plasma wave to block missiles. It can also block incoming missiles with spinning blades, which are very cheap for your battery. The other problem was that sometimes Earthling would get a "VUX start" close to the Kohr-Ah, and in that case the Cruiser would barely inflict damage at all. Not a very reliable match-up in my opinion.
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