|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
|
 |
|
Author
|
Topic: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat" (Read 47582 times)
|
|
|
Captain_Smith
Guest
|
Trouble with that is that AI is useless with Ur-Quan. The comp will mindlessly follow you - and with a Druuge that's suicide. All an ur-quan needs to do is keep its distance and send fighters out selectively. The druuge would have to recoil to escape the fighters, and I suspect, recoil into the path of the ur-quan's rapid-fire fusion blaster.
You should try switching ships and see how you go with a Quan against a mauler - or play a human
And don't think of the response of any ship in terms of what the AI is going to do either. Admittedly the way the AI Druuge would play against an Ur-Quan is completely stupid. The AI Druuge essentially commits suicide when a Ur-Quan fighter comes near.
And I leave you with the same advice.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
AngusThermopyle
*Smell* controller
 Offline
Gender: 
Posts: 304
A paranoid android.
|
I think some of the Dreadnaughts value comes from the fact that it could bust through enemy forts in SC1 all by itself.
That being said, it's still an excellent ship; but point-wise, it should probably be on par with the Chenjesu at 28. It can defeat most ships the Chmmr and Khor-Ah can, but it usually sustains more damage in doing so (by absorbing damage that either the FRIED or Zap Sats would destroy, or by losing fighters).
To prove my point, i've played a game against a total neophite Sunday (yes another corrupted soul!) and my umgah destroyed a a Pkunk Fury, an ilwrath Avenger, a Siren Penetrator, only to die after badly mauling an Earthling Cruiser. So for my friend, the Umgah is now overpowered...
That's a good point too. To the uninitiated, the Dreadnaught can be a really scary ship. At least I thought so when I first started playing.
Personally, I'm much more in favor of downgrading its point value rather than improving its tactical abilities. Don't forget, the fighters already received an upgrade in SC2 to prevent them from being automatically killed when hitting the planet.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 25, 2007, 08:51:00 pm by AngusThermopyle »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
psydev
*Many bubbles*
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 136
Why don't all races have point defense lasers?
|
I'm a bit of a purist so I'm against radical changes (especially balance changes) for the 1.0 version, but I'm still open minded to slight mods. I think we can all agree that ur-quan fighters have a frustratingly low survival rate, lessening the ur-quan's staying power over multiple fights. Here are some useful ideas for ur-quan fighters.
Serious Suggestions for 1.0:
1. Give a better intercept algorithm for the fighters. I think the best idea for ur-quan fighters would be to change the way they chase down the enemy ship. Instead of constantly following the target, I think it would be useful instead of they plotted an "intercept course" on where the enemy ship WILL be when they can get there, and take an better route. This would be effective, especially against ships like the Druuge who often go flying in space so quickly that they can't be caught up with. If the effectiveness of this mod is overwhelming, it could always be watered down a bit so that the intercept course is not very precise, but still saves time.
2. Asteroids should be less lethal. If asteroids can destroy fighters, the fighters should at least make an attempt to maneuver around them so that they don't collide. This seems like common sense for any pilot. Watching all your fighters be destroyed by 2 asteroids can be very frustrating. I think this needs to be fixed. Fighters should either bounce off, go through or go around asteroids.
3. Fighters should not "expire". After all, inertia can carry you a long ways without consuming fuel...
Suggestions for future versions:
The Dreadnought consumes a lot of fuel by launching fighters. Granted, the rate at which fighters should be launched should be limited, but after launching a big wave of fighters, you can be left vulnerable with no energy left for the blasters. Less fuel consumption for launches would be useful.
Fighters being able to gravity whip like the Orz marine would be quite useful and interesting, without changing the game balance too too much.
Edit: Also, I think deploying fighters in a protective circle around the dreadnought makes good sense. It should be an alt-fire option or something. They could operate in a manner similar to zapsats, except be destroyed more easily.
Recalling the fighters at will would be useful, too.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 26, 2007, 01:05:37 am by PsyDev »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Captain_Smith
Guest
|
3. Fighters should not "expire". After all, inertia can carry you a long ways without consuming fuel...
The fragile expiring fighter craft I think is more of a reflection of the game and what the Ur-Quan characters were meant to be. When/if changes are made, you have to make sure that you don't break canon in the storylines with them (at least not too bad). In this case, one of the SC2 guides (either the manual or the strat guide, can't remember which) shows a drawing of an Ur-Quan forcing a fighting slave into a fighter pod.
Kind of the point behind the fragility (the asteroids and expiring both) of the fighter pods is that they're slaves not necessarily fighting of their own free will. I think between SC1 and SC2 probably the ability to kite them into the planet was removed because of the big advantage it offered (though it makes as much sense as them driving into the asteroids). But as a fighting slave that's not doing it of his own free will, wouldn't you think the temptation to just drive into an asteroid would be great enough to end an existence of having these strange tentacled aliens beating you around day in and day out and forcing you to do things you don't want to do?
Then the fuel/oxygen (or whatever these things breathe) issue: Wouldn't you think the Ur-Quan would want to control their slaves? If the slave knew they could fly around all day doing the Ur-Quan's bidding in their fighter craft, what's to stop them from just flying off to find their freedom? I always saw the fact that the fighter craft expired as a reflection of that grip of control they sought to have on their slave races. Either the fighting slave in the pod would either not want to return, or if he still valued his life enough, he would make sure he returned. Think of it as a long-distance shackle.
Regardless, I definitely feel you'd be toying with story-line canon if this change were made.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Shiver
Guest
|
Whoa people. Original code is original code. Like I said, I was talking about a balance mod for Super Melee enthusiasts. In no way, shape or form am I in favor of forcing ship changes into the main game. With that said I assume most of us wouldn't mind an official balance mod that can be switched on and off, right?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Shiver
Guest
|
I thought of another potential improvement for the Dreadnought. It's a given that firing arcs really cripple this ship's accuracy, so you could replace the fusion burst with a similar doodad that's twice as wide. A wider fusion burst would do wonders for this ship.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Cedric6014
Enlightened
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 701
|
Okay, so i am wrong - for now. Shiver and i played Kohr-ah vs ur-quan then switched and the kohr-ah came up trumps on both occasions. However i have not given up on the turdboat - i intend to master it and become, well, turdmaster i guess.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
C. Bob
Zebranky food
Offline
Posts: 43
|
"Turdboat"?
Calling it that is really just stupid, if you don't mind me saying so -- it's fearsome, just (supposedly) not so much as some other ships.
- Bob
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Shiver
Guest
|
if you don't mind me saying so
While I do mind you saying so and would prefer that you take your pretentious signature elsewhere, I also agree with your premise somewhat. Turdboat is not a very endearing name. I have recently taken to calling the Ur-Quan vessel a Banana Boat instead.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
psydev
*Many bubbles*
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 136
Why don't all races have point defense lasers?
|
It might be cool if in the future balance mod, the ur-quan had the ability to fire a shot that was "charged up", doing more damage than usual ones... so, the ur-quan could fire small fusion fire blasts rapidly or else save up for one huge devastating energy-output.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Terrell
Frungy champion
Offline
Gender:
Posts: 75
|
I like the idea of the fighters taking better routes, to try and get the opponent, or even getting them to avoid the asteroids. I beg to differ though that the fighters are much of an issue for the Pkunk to deal with, try running past them and shooting them with the side guns, to kill them, or simply avoid them. Not an issue for the Arilou to shoot them either, just make sure the fighters you're shooting are directly between you and the Ur-Quan (be stationary until the fighters are in range, then fire while moving away from the fighters). In both cases try to hit them at or near maximum range of your guns. Both the Pkunk and Arilou have enough speed an maneuverability to mostly avoid them fairly easily.
Kiting the fighters into asteroids isn't necessary for the Pkunk, Arilou, or Mnrmmhrm. It's especially not an issue for the Mmrnmhrm, simply stay mostly in Y-Form, and use the long range missiles, Only go into X-Form when you need to turn quickly. The fighters aren't fast enough to prevent Pkunks, Mnrmmhrm, or Arilou from simply avoiding them, most of the time, the Mmrnmhrm does have to watch his maneuvering when in Y-Form and be smart about switching forms, They're only potentially an issue if the Ur-Quan launches them as you're attacking the ship itself, so save energy to teleport with an Arilou, Be ready to fly away quickly with a Pkunk, and there's no need to get that close with a Mmrnmhrm. For Mnrmmhrm against Dreadnought, I would play keep away, and shoot with the long range gun, especially since the long range gun fires slower than the batteries recharge.
I haven't tried using an Ur-Quan against a Kohr-Ah in PvP in a long time, but how well would closing on the Kohr-Ah and using the fusion blast to shoot down his blades do? He can only block your fusion blast with his F.R.I.E.D, but he needs 1/2 of a full battery to do that. Is the dreadnought fast enough to close on the Maurader if the Maurader makes an effort to keep his distance?
I do agree that there are plenty of ships that can take the Dreadnought down, but I don't think that the Cruiser is one of the best ones. If the Cruiser wasn't so painfully slow though it would be pretty interesting. While gravity whips make the Cruiser go faster, the Quan simply needs to head the Cruiser off at that pass, so to speak, since if they try to correct thier course much, they will end up losing the speed gained from the Gravity Whip.
I do like the idea of a higher difficulty setting on the Player vs Computer Super Melee. There are times, when I played a team of 2x the old Alliance, vs 2x the old Heirarchy, and have beaten all the heirarchy ships with only two or three of my ships and have done it using just the Syreen Penetrator (for those teams I always pick the Penetrator first, their best chance to stop it is pick the Ur-Quan first, before my Penetrator has picked up crew from other ships, and I can afford to make a mistake). Usually the Syreen Penetrator, the Mmrnmhrm X-Form, and the either the Yehat Terminator, or Chenjesu Broodhome (depending on what Heirarchy ships remain). For the Penetrator the only ship that is a challenge to beat against the AI set on Awesome is the Dreadnaught (in the teams I previously mentioned) but I keep my distance and work on picking off the fighters with the main gun, then try and get between the Quan's firing arcs and shoot the last few crew. (I do try to do this at maximum range though) I think that the Syreen's gun has slightly more range than the fusion blast,
Against the other ships, I just have to avoid getting overconfident or sloppy with the Penetrator against Awesome AI. Umgah is easy, Sing all his crew away, shoot the captain, then pick up the crew. When you first face him, you want to get in front of him, and stay fairly close, so he's likely to keep using the antimatter cone, rather than his ability to zip backwards (by the time he's doing the turn to zip backwards, you should be shooting his captain.)
Androsynth, not too hard, for some reason against the AI, in Awesome, usually won't go into blazer mode until you shoot at him, so Sing his crew out, then make your shot count.
Against the Vux, get distance immediately and pick him apart with the gun, just be patient, don't bother trying to suck out the crew.
Against the Spathi, run away a little, then turn, close and sing when you get him to chase you, Avoid the Butt missiles (the computer will also tend to shoot himself a few times as well), and pick up the crew when he thinks you're going to chase him, Lather, rinse, repeat.
Against the Ilwarth, sing out his crew, then shoot the captain,
Against the Mycon, he will fire as soon as he appears, move away from his shots, and try to cut him off, after he gets moving, then as he tries to turn and run from you get behind him and sing his crew out, then shoot the captain. This can be a bit tricky, but it's doable, just remember that the Penetrator is only barely faster than the plasmoids, but the Mycon can't shoot the plasmoids very quickly, can't turn very quickly, and cannot move quickly without a gravity whip, so I exploit those weaknesses. Shooting the Plasmoids also helps, especially since each shot that hits, makes the target bigger, so it's easier for the next shot to hit.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 01:35:45 pm by Terrell »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Holocat
Frungy champion
Offline
Posts: 84
|
To be a little off topic I don't think the Kzer-Za can be called a bananna ship, as Homeworld already has a more stately and banannaish ship in service; In fact, i've never seen a ship so banannaish as the Mothership.
In SC1 it is my opinion that the most powerful ship is the Penetrator, but only after you have maxed its current crew; It loses a lot of potential in SC2 as it cannot keep captured crew after battle. Shame .
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 8
|
|
|
|
|
