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Topic: Ur-Quan Dreadnought to be re-named "Banana Boat" (Read 47592 times)
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Death 999
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We did. You did. Yes we can. No.
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Just making it a touch faster would help the most, I think.
But it's the fighters that really need the love. Is there additional inaccuracy applied to their attack, on top of the problem of discrete firing angles? If so, we could remove it.
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chenjesummrnmhrm
Zebranky food
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If the Ur-Quan have slaves, then the Ur-Quan should be able to implement the slaves' technology in their own ships, if they're the technically-advanced race I heard about. I propose giving the Ur-Quan ships Thraddash-style afterburners, Earthling MX missiles, and VUX limpets. Then they'd be feared.
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Valaggar
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Well, if their own Fusion Bolt weapon is modded so as to be more cost-effective than the weaponry of the conquered races, then this would completely and undeniably explain why they don't attach weaponry from the slaves to their Dreadnoughts.
I guess that an Ur-Quan-ish (but not necessarily balanced) way to improve the Fusion Bolt is to:
1. Make it to auto-aim (that is, start with a facing such as, if the target keeps moving with the same velocity, the Fusion Bolt and the target are going to collide) at enemies within an arc of 22.5 degrees with the center at the Dreadnought's nose and the extension of the bisector passing through the Dreadnought parallel to its facing.
(after all, they have shown their aiming prowess when destroying everything older than 500 years on Earth)
2. In addition to this, increase the speed of the Fusion Bolt up to roughly 150% its default value (thus increasing its range as well).
3. In addition to the above, have the Fusion Bolt kill 9 crew members for 6 batt, as opposed to 6 crew for 6 batt as it currently does.
For the fighters, simply have them avoid asteroids and projectiles (but still be killed by them upon collision), and have them spawn in groups of four for only two crew members and the same amount of batt as default (and have them return as half a crew member each, unlike EP-Mod).
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Now for the Marauder's upgrade!
So as to be on par with the Dreadful Dreadnought, the Marauder has to be improved according to the guidelines listed *below*:
1. The Marauder launches six FRIEDs in succession when the secondary button is pressed (and for the same amount of batt). The FRIEDs rotate around the ship a-la-the Pkunk Death Blossom and have 150% the vanilla speed (and thus, increased range).
2. In addition to that, shurikens are twice as fast and home in on the enemy a-la-EP-Mod, but with only 3/4 their speed-while-primary-button-is-pressed (i.e., with 150% the vanilla speed-while-primary-button-is-pressed).
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« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 08:46:20 pm by Valaggar the Wackrazy One »
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Shiver
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Now for the Marauder's upgrade!
So as to be on par with the Dreadful Dreadnought, the Marauder has to be improved according to the guidelines listed *below*:
1. The Marauder launches six FRIEDs in succession when the secondary button is pressed (and for the same amount of batt). The FRIEDs rotate around the ship a-la-the Pkunk Death Blossom and have 150% the vanilla speed (and thus, increased range).
2. In addition to that, shurikens are twice as fast and home in on the enemy a-la-EP-Mod, but with only 3/4 their speed-while-primary-button-is-pressed (i.e., with 150% the vanilla speed-while-primary-button-is-pressed).
Uh... no. Definitely no. Any Melee post that has the phrase "Marauder upgrade" is not to be taken seriously. I stopped reading after that.
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Valaggar
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Uh... no. Definitely no. Any Melee post that has the phrase "Marauder upgrade" is not to be taken seriously. I stopped reading after that.
Well, the idea was that I was not trying to balance the ships, just to upgrade the Dreadnought from a mediocre ship to an unbeatable ship, and the Marauder from a hard to beat ship to another unbeatable ship.
So yes, it wasn't even intended to be taken that seriously.
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« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 08:46:40 pm by Valaggar the Wackrazy One »
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Dancing Fungus
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Armor always looks cool with extra techno...right?
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What are you talking about? I've held out against many ships well with the dreadnought. My tactic is simple: stay put and blast anyone who comes close with fusion bolts. Few ships can withstand a good, well-aimed barrage. Those that do are the Utwig [best destroyed by figthers], the Chmmr [best destroyed by a "shoot and scoot" method] and the Khor-ah[beatable with a long range dual followed by moving in close to launch fighters]. I've also fought the Ur-quan with all three of those ships, and in practice, all ships, if used well, are easily capable of destroying each other. In one battle, where both sides had an even mix of the above ships, the two sides nearly wiped each other out, and the dreadnoughts were just as important to each side's effort as anything else. The Spathi are also very powerful, but they are better at making a battle last a long time than at actually winning.
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Thrice thy blinded cat hath mewed....
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Dancing Fungus
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Armor always looks cool with extra techno...right?
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Did you know that you can shoot down projectiles coming at you from long range? Did you know that, besides the Utwig, shields suck? Further, I was playing against a human opponent [in retrospect, I should have mentioned this previously], and although I don't know exactly where his skill level falls in the SC2 community, I know he is better than the crappy AI.
Since this is about the Ur-quan's weaknesses, I guess I should mention that its main problem is that it can't defend itself from rear attacks. This is why, for most ships, you keep the gun-end of the dreadnought toward the enemy. Thus, the best way to take the Ur-quan out is to hit it quickly from behind. The Spathi are the best for this, followed by the Utwig. Also, the Orz marines are good for destroying slow targets, like the Ur-quan.
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Thrice thy blinded cat hath mewed....
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Shiver
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etc.
Hey guy, there's a message for you in the first post. Go back and read it. I don't really feel like copy/pasting it up here again in a massive bold font.
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C. Bob
Zebranky food
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Did you know that you can shoot down projectiles coming at you from long range? Only if you're directly facing each other, or the shot is Mycon plasmoid (in which case, big deal; anyone can shoot down those).
Did you know that, besides the Utwig, shields suck? Since there are only two ships with shields in the entire game, that's not really much of a thing for anyone to know. Besides, however bad Yehat shield may be (and it can become much more awesome if you use it properly than if you just hold down the special key), the Terminator's more able than the Dreadnought against enemies, in a surprising number of ways, considering its lower cost. The Terminator's not an amazing ship (unfortunately), but then, neither's the Dreadnought. The Dreadnought isn't leagues ahead of the Terminator, for sure, though it's worth more as-is.
Further, I was playing against a human opponent [in retrospect, I should have mentioned this previously], and although I don't know exactly where his skill level falls in the SC2 community, I know he is better than the crappy AI. Probably so, but if Dreadnought still rocks in your games, well. When you play against most good players, who use good tactics, the Dreadnought becomes a paperweight.
Since this is about the Ur-quan's weaknesses, I guess I should mention that its main problem is that it can't defend itself from rear attacks. Or side attacks, or a lot of frontal attacks.
The main problem of the Dreadnought is that it's totally outgunned by everything of comparable point status, and that when it *does* have an advantage in firepower, the enemy can usually dodge or otherwise nullify the attack, which is slow and fired by a ship with the turning ability of a whale in the Sahara Desert. Claiming that the Dreadnought rocks if only the pilot tries to keep people from getting behind it is silly, because its problems extend far beyond that (which can be circumvented, to a good extent, anyway).
This is why, for most ships, you keep the gun-end of the dreadnought toward the enemy. Thanks for the info, but I'm fairly sure everyone knew that already.
Thus, the best way to take the Ur-quan out is to hit it quickly from behind. Which even a Dreadnought can usually prevent, by the act of going into gravwhip. If not, however, you don't really have to come in from behind exclusively; the sides are similarly vulnerable, and in truth the front isn't a whole lot better, a lot of the time.
The Spathi are the best for this, followed by the Utwig. Utwig can be all right against Dreadnoughts, if they're flown properly, I guess... but... Spathi?
Also, the Orz marines are good for destroying slow targets, like the Ur-quan.
Probably the only thing I don't disagree with in your post.
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Arne
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Yak!
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I'm thinking that the Dreadnought should be a bit like the Death Star. This might suit their personality. A big, powerful no-bullshit main gun with a deterring effect, then fighters as defense against the insolent fools who dare to get close. The fighters are not crewed by Quan of course, and also are kept on leach (to subtly signify that the Quan use slaves). Then the Quans just sit there behind their shield of fighters, pounding the enemy into submission. I'm not sure how this would be balanced in the game though, it's just how I image the Quan doing things.
Plasma bolt
Long range, very slightly homing, costly, strong.
Fighters
Swarming in the proximity of the Dreadnought (much further away than zap-sats).
The counter strategy would be to have a fast ship, then keep just outside the fighter radius and pick them off.
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Elerium
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I love the idea behind the whole Death Star but the thing is Arne the Dreadnoughts just constantly die to fast ships anyway (usually the Dreadnoughts are laughed at).. the Marauder despite being 30 points can destroy capital ships and smaller fast ships, and online they are very unkillable in the hands of a good opponent. In my opinion the Dreadnought should be something to be feared, the fighters able to attack fast-ships and that the enemy has to suffer some loss to destroy it rather than just playing around, playing on its weaknesses rather than say the Marauder which has few weaknesses other than the turning rate which for capital ships is decent, as well as having the constant range of a Druuge, decent damage (4 crew), full crew compliment, fast speed/good grav whips, fast fuel recharge rate and a defense/incinerate shield.
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